MDR update

Ol' Curmudgeon

Ol' Curmudgeon

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dan200 said:
Ok, so this ^^^^ is speculation. Do you know what was visible from the cab of his truck? What announcements had been made that the setback had been ignored? It was my understanding that he launched, bounced, and rolled. Before he launched and could have checked up, was there any reason that he shpould have, since six or so other vehicles went before him?
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Neither of us were there that night, were we? My speculation/deduction is based on over a half century of off roading, reported facts, the aftermath, logic and reason.

Why should he have expected there to be people 6 feet from the course at the base of a landing on a course with a setback rule?
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Part of driver prep in off road racing is to expect the unexpected.

As to whether he should have proceeded as he did, evidence indicates otherwise.

Bet your mom didn't buy your argument when you pleaded, "But all the other kids..."

I said you can call him. But, hes ten bucks a minute so please have your payment ready... ;)
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And you said he was interested in discussing the matter, IIRC. I didn't think you were implying he had only a financial interest in discussion, in effect, shilling for him.

I told you to give him my number so that he may call me at his convenience, and I'm either waiting for his call, or calling your bluff, Dan. ;)
 
Pee Wee

Pee Wee

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bighad said:
this topic..like a lot...is not about learning or changing..it seems to be about blaming. regardless of your feelings, as an uninvolved person directly impacted...a lot of the comments are completely false. while they incite deep emotional anger in a lot of people, they still, are...false. The lawsuits..to which i know exactly HOW MANY there are..and who is suing who....you'd be surprised BTW....is really not even asked. I know i am the unliked guy because from the start i have said..and still say..no...I will not say this tragedy is about saying spectators are dumb..case closed..lets move along. This topic, in its youthful audience, is best closed if it could be that simple. Things change...dont fear change...learn it..work with it...see if it benefits you or harms you before judging the very idea of change. What i like..is what dan200 said..it was awesome to see the grouping form for a central cause..people helping fellow enthusiast in the sport they commonly share and love. The desert. I dont think all the various directly involved parties are proud or happy with being a part of this tragically written scene. I dont think the people who hurt to this day through the loss of their loved ones..or their daily pains..are proud of what life dealt them. Like music...it was an 8 track..then a cassette..then a cd..then mp3..now itunes..it evolved..but in the end..were all still enjoying the music. And that should be what matters most..if you truly love your desert sports...adaptation. I can say that my litigation has nothing in it about closures..restrictions..or the like. While we continue to play the blame game..things are happening though..good or bad. All I have ever wanted is to say thank you to all the people who cared..who gave. It has been a hard road since that night..both for my body..somewhat for my finances...and for the losses I have had..some of you should feel very happy to know my closest buddies are no more..when i go to the desert..i go alone..with jakob..afraid to say my name..I have read your posts..in some cases received your threats...but none the less i have continued to be me. Im not a sue happy person..I dont look for wealth off someone else..before this i was never in a lawsuit. I'd never been sued before either. And I, like so many of you didnt realize that if your involved in an accident your medical provider will sue for their losses..whether you want to or not. The waters on this whole matter are deep. They go well beyond perceptions..but in reality..most post perceptions..like "brett is being hounded daily"..i know him.....lol..err..no..read statue of limitations. False..oh my..I could go on. I often wonder how many of us have crossed paths and didnt know it. How many of you borrowed a tool from my camp..or i strapped up and towed over the years? My kid has read or heard a lot of your smack..and i remind him about that night..of who we are...son..wasnt i the one who denied medical aid so others could be helped? Yes. yet, in the end..I was the most critically injured to live...wasnt I the last one to leave the hospital? yes... because of my injuries. ya see...at the moment of need...or pleasure to hurt...disrespect, or self gluttany..this is how people are. I was the last flight to leave the ground that night. all of what i just said is a fact. And no i dont say it to pat myself on the back by any means..i say it simply to say to say that caring is important. Human compassion is important. It is something we have lost in this country...kick a dude and gang up on him and beat him within his life..your cool. Talk smack about dead people..say their idiots..keep the stick swinging at the delapitated pinata..your cool...but be careful friend..for someday you may be the pinata.To all the racers who wanna say.."effing spectators"..what you really say is that when your in your truck..you dont give an eff...and the world belongs to you..so whomever you hurt..whomever you kill..it will be their problem..wowza..I am amazed at some of your thinking..you belong in a closed course arena..not an open desert..your a danger to the world..and self fulfilled..your....sick in my mind...people matter..lives matter...not a single race. Not in an environment to which others also have a right to be at. If you wanna "own" the desert..its called private property..put a fence up..then argue they shouldnt have been there..until then....no..with your ideology..it is you who shouldnt be there..your the danger to the rest of the public..and so..accidents will happen..right? i think there could be a happy medium..but it will never get there until we move on beyond blamegame..and yes..this will require everyones effort... KOh has figured it out well..BITD has figured it out...Primm has figured it out....I guess it can be figured out then. If some of you would take some of your haterblamer passion and effort and focus it on your sport..it would get figured out. Lets honor the deads lives by making a positive sport in their honor. Thats my thoughts. dont focus on me..i'm nobody in the end. And like stated before..no part of what is going on in my personal life is out to close down or shut down this sport.
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I lost brain cells in the process of reading that. No drug could have done worse.
 
dan200

dan200

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Ol' Curmudgeon said:
Neither of us were there that night, were we? My speculation/deduction is based on over a half century of off roading, reported facts, the aftermath, logic and reason.



Part of driver prep in off road racing is to expect the unexpected.
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So,if brett had more experience this wouldnt have happened? Could that suggest that whoever allowed someone to compete in the race without the experience to lift in this situation would be to blame? As opposed the guy without the experience?

Ol' Curmudgeon said:
As to whether he should have proceeded as he did, evidence indicates otherwise.
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do you have some evidence of some kind?

Ol' Curmudgeon said:
And you said he was interested in discussing the matter, IIRC. I didn't think you were implying he had only a financial interest in discussion, in effect, shilling for him.

I told you to give him my number so that he may call me at his convenience, and I'm either waiting for his call, or calling your bluff, Dan. ;)
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No, I said "My pops will be more than happy to discuss this with you further if you would like. He might even offer you a discounted rate for his expertise." I never suggested he wanted to do it for you for free.

But, i get free opinions so, what i Posted about last clear chance (the legal argument you suggested we read up on) was that in that argument the spectators were the ones in the wrong... Basically i reiterated what my dad said about your suggestion.
 
Edgmon Motorsports

Edgmon Motorsports

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You guys are going a little to far with his comment. All he was implying is that in off-road racing in particular vehicles race against a vast array of obstacles and terrain. Some do it as more of a hobby some are far more serious. Nothing wrong with either way. Although when your dialed in and " in the zone" heat of the moment, driving your butt off to win the race, the last thing you should have to worry about is a spectator on the course. Many spectators who have never been in a " race" vehicle before, during a race do not realize that you are in the edge of out of control. Therefore at least 100 ft or more each side should be allowed for driver mistakes and part failures. If an accident were to happen it should no way shape or form be the drivers fault. Also why I disagree with not allowing prerunning in the states because you might not be familiar with the course, add in the dust factor and a small driver error, blowing a turn could end up bad if "uneducated" spectators park outside a turn. Sorry it has to take incidents like this for people to learn. We dont need BLM to solve these problems either, the promotor should be liable to properly secure the race course of spectators. They strictly adress this in the drivers meeting, and they have their own patrol rovers and checkpoints and fellow racers keep a lookout. Alcohol is not the problem, stupid is the problem. The promotors are more familiar with the race vehicles and terrain and therefore they patrol it accordingly. Now you get the BLM in control with these out of touch from off road racing officers. They just make up a number in their head how many officers are "needed" to put on a race and we foot the bill and they dont have a clue whats going on. Sad to see our sport this way.
 
Ol' Curmudgeon

Ol' Curmudgeon

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dan200 said:
So,if brett had more experience this wouldnt have happened?
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Perhaps. Apparently some racers were able to run that gauntlet without incident.

Could that suggest that whoever allowed someone to compete in the race without the experience to lift in this situation would be to blame?
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Yes.

As opposed the guy without the experience?
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No, as I said, this is a case of comparative negligence, with culpability on the hands of many.

do you have some evidence of some kind?
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Several deaths, injuries, overturned truck, Sloppy no longer racing, new restrictions on racing and the permitting process, increased costs and lawsuits filed by contingency lawyers (betting on the come?) since the incident.


No, I said "My pops will be more than happy to discuss this with you further if you would like. He might even offer you a discounted rate for his expertise." I never suggested he wanted to do it for you for free.

But, i get free opinions so, what i Posted about last clear chance (the legal argument you suggested we read up on) was that in that argument the spectators were the ones in the wrong... Basically i reiterated what my dad said about your suggestion.
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By what logic would you think that if I decided to spend $600 an hour on a pasttime, I would choose to spend it by talking to your dad on the phone?

BTW, if he charges $600 for his paid work, what is the value of his "free" offerings? Or are you his "pro bono" case? ;)

Without a transcript of your proposal to him, I can't begin to judge the validity of any opinion he may have offered.
 
B

BajaFand

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bighad said:
Idunno....always thought they seek the truth...and in that...the blame will be spoken
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Once again you have failed to answer the question, so I will ask for a THIRD TIME. Why were you standing so close to the race course? Why did you think it was okay to stand there? Do you think that race cars should always slow down for YOU? YOU are the one placing blame with your lawsuit, I hope the court says you're wrong. Thanks for trying to eliminate open desert racing in the United States.
 
Edgmon Motorsports

Edgmon Motorsports

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I can write paragraphs, don't ask me to write hate letters to the BLM for you they don't like that too much. LMAO, until I get pulled over and believe I am being wrongfully pursued/ prosecuted. They will feel the wrath.
 
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