Microstub wheel adapters

tkr

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We've had a reoccuring problem on our buggy. We're running a microstub set up from McKenzies with the aluminum wheel lug adapter bolted to the hub. The adapter is compressing where the lug nuts contact it which allows the adapter to slop around and break the studs. I've been told the adapter from Kartek may work better, but I'm wondering why we couldn't just get rid of the adapter all together and bolt up a wheel with a Chevy bolt pattern straight to the hub. Has anyone else tried this? I've never seen any cars set up like that, is it just a wheel availability issue?

Thanks for your help

Matt Nelson
Team Kwik Racing
 

frankh

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I have ran those hub on are 5 open car for ever. I have only had a problem one time. since then I have used loctie on just the adapter part and have never had a problem. You could use other wheels but then you could not use other people's spares. I do not know if you plan on running in the longer mexico races, but if you do then it is a must, I can't tell you how many times I have used other people's tire and they have used mine.

Frank
 

tkr

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Thanks for the advice Frank. We only run in MDR so spares aren't too much of an issure. You're the third person I've talked to that runs them and haven't had any problems, but this has happened to us three times. We've torqed them, locktited them....everything we could think of. Are you using the type with the tapered lug nuts or with the washers?

Matt Nelson
Team Kwik Racing
 

frankh

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tappered. there must be some other problem. something out of balance, brake/rotor not line up.
 

tkr

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the rotor and the caliper line up ok. I have no doubt the wheel is out of balance, but who can help that in off road racing. We're on a new set of axles and cv's, and transmission since the last time it happened. We are, however, using the adapters withouth the taper. The lug nuts have a washer that goes into an inset in the adapter. Maybe that's the difference?

Matt Nelson
Team Kwik Racing
 

TimHayosh

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What about safety wiring them? Just put the nuts on a drill press, put a hole on the corner (there are jigs), and viola! .032" or larger wire ought to do the trick.

Just about $0.02 worth.

Happy motoring, Tim
 

Kritter

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thats the problem....you need the tapered lugs...I am pretty sure they are lugcentric and since you are using flat nuts, nothing is keeping it in centered...hence the slop after driving. I think the cone angle is 60 degrees.

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.barneysprecision.com/fabproducts.htm> Fab Parts</A>
 

tkr

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when we looked at it after it broke at the last race, we found that the the studs had actually bottomed out in the nuts before clamping down properly. That leads me to believe that its not a problem of the nuts loosening up, its the aluminum adapter plate being to soft and compressing when torqued. I know a lot of this problem could be eliminated by using the tapered adapters and open ended nuts, but I was hoping to just get rid of the darn adapters. After taking us out of two races I'm just sick of looking at them.

Matt Nelson
Team Kwik Racing
 

tkr

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Thanks for the help guys. I have another question. Has anyone drilled out the hubs for larger studs? Or are the stock studs large enough?

Matt Nelson
Team Kwik Racing
 

bpthirteen

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We bought the Kartek 10-bolt system. It uses a larger bearing also and seems pretty bulletproof. We will know better after the first couple races on it. It can run 930's or 934's.

http://www.prepbyjake.com
 

tkr

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Thanks Brandon. I like the looks of that set up. Think I'll give Kartek a call.

Thanks again everyone for your advice.

Matt Nelson
Team Kwik Racing
 

ntsqd

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Are the studs a std. stud ? If so, I would look into using some ARP studs. If you can increase the number of studs you will better off than merely increasing the diameter of the existing studs.
Torque the nuts in a normal criss-cross pattern if you aren't already. Might consider doing this in several steps, particularly with the conic seat type nuts.

The conic seat lug nuts do two things. They center the wheel (or in this case the adapter), and they are a locking device just like if you were using Grade C's or Nylox etc. The old style mag lug nuts are really silly. Dump them at first oppertunity and go to the conic or ball type of nut.

If the adapters are compressing enough to let the nuts loosen up and they have done this several times, the adapters themselves should be junk by now.


My turn to ask a dumb question. What exactly is a "micro stub" ? Were I to guess I would say they are patterned after the Bus stub axle, only with a splined flange instead of the drum.

TS

I used to swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.
 

CRAIG_HALL

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They are the same concept as the vw style with major improvements.Whan they first appeared the were S-10 (i think) front bearing carriers with a custom stub axle. They are a sealed bearing unit and much narrower than VW's axle. Kartek has many mainly two sizes of bearings that they get manufactured for them direct from TIMKEN by the pallet load two feet high. both a five bolt adapter with either 930 or 934/5 or the 10 bolts with big bearings and 934/5 and both are conical seat lugs. He (roy) has many brake setups both spindle hub mount,and traditional. I just saw a run of 2" bolt on snouts similiar to the style jimco uses on the aluminum spindle, but the bolts come from the outside.

TS--------- just curious what the proper material is to make brake rotors? 1/4"-3/8" thick obviously blanchard ground after lasering. By proper I mean for street use,sand cars will probably never go through a set of discs,and the serious racers use the wider wilwood discs.
 

ntsqd

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Generically gray iron would be the material of choice. The problem is that when you make it thin, ala 'plate' type rotors, it isn't really strong enough.
Most thin (non-vented 'plate' type) rotors are made from plate steel. I don't know which alloy. How the pad compounds relate to steel is a little different than how they relate to iron. Unfortunately I don't know of any pads that are specifically formulated to work witrh steel.

There is some ideal thermal mass for a given corner weight and vehicle useage. I don't know what the quasi-thermodynamic calc might look like. (Sic Kritter on that one......) A plate rotor on the street is marginal, even on the rear. If it's a light car it will work. Don't have high hopes for a '65 Impala. A plate rotor on a buggy may be about right. Can't generate much heat due to the limited traction so why put more unsprung weight on a car than needed ?

Actually b4 blanchard grinding you probably want to do an anneal or normalization to remove any stresses imparted by the rolling of the plate or the cutting operations.


TS

I used to swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.
 

CRAIG_HALL

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Thanks for the info. Some of the rotors we do are vented(curved slots)while some are solid.Just curious of material as motorcycles and quads are all thin discs.
 

tedmales

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the rotors on my bike(fatboy) are stainless.

life is too short to be small
 

ntsqd

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Who is "we" ?
By "curved slot" do you mean slots that pierce the friction surfaces, or gaps btwn the vanes seperating the friction surfaces ?
As tedmales pointed out, most m/c & quad rotors that I've looked at are stainless, as are those for my Hayes MTB brakes. I'm not very conversant about those as I've hed no real experience in that area of disc brakes.

TS

I used to swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.
 

CRAIG_HALL

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Thom, I work for a sheet metal job shop (no retail) lots of laser parts-RV industry stuff. All the slotted rotors are curved slots cut through the solid disc from 1/4" to 3/8" thick.
 
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