Mint 400 Crash - Race Vehicle 1035

Bro_Gill

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Did you ever stop and think that 5 years of racing in that seat was 2 years beyond it racing life expectancy? If a part is built as a light weight component of the car, expect the lightness to reduce longevity. If you rebuilt that seat with new foam padding and a cover in that 5 years, you missed the point of material wear out. Think of it like belts.
 

frostbite36

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Did you ever stop and think that 5 years of racing in that seat was 2 years beyond it racing life expectancy? If a part is built as a light weight component of the car, expect the lightness to reduce longevity. If you rebuilt that seat with new foam padding and a cover in that 5 years, you missed the point of material wear out. Think of it like belts.
Agree 100% Bro_Gill..I also believe if we had experienced the forces of the crash which are the subject on this thread, even with new parts, as it was, we'd have had some sort of seat failure too. I'm feeling much better now.

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Buckeye Beard

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Frostbites seat mounts
That seat frame is at least 20 years old!
It will break again because the front of the seat is not mounted securely!
Trust me!
I built this seat
E.B.
 

JARDINE

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I've been around a lot of different racing. Mostly dragracing. Drag cars pretty much have no seat. A carbon fiber tub zeused to the floor. No pad or nothing. Of course that would never work here. Why not get rid of adjustable seat mounts all together and adjust the pedals instead. I know most of the off road cars I've been around have willwood or the like swing or floor mounted pedal/master cylinder set ups. I'd think it'd be simple to set those up on a slide system. No?
 

51rcr

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I've been around a lot of different racing. Mostly dragracing. Drag cars pretty much have no seat. A carbon fiber tub zeused to the floor. No pad or nothing. Of course that would never work here. Why not get rid of adjustable seat mounts all together and adjust the pedals instead. I know most of the off road cars I've been around have willwood or the like swing or floor mounted pedal/master cylinder set ups. I'd think it'd be simple to set those up on a slide system. No?

I seen some that go up as they go forward for the shorter drivers to get the height and reach the steering wheel. I think lots of them are designed tough. But like anything some are not. I just made my throttle adjustable on a square tube slide. but I always wondered why they didn't do that also with the whole peddle assembly
 

Jerry

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I let some rather large guys drive my truck a while back. When I was prepping it I noticed the mounts were bent. I added some 1/8" plates to make it a little stronger. I have MOMO seats and installed them on their brackets.

In my videos you can see the seats flexing a lot. Is that ok?

I prefer the solid seats way more that suspension seats.
 

619offroad

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Personally I prefer the seat frame being bolted to small tabs off the cage. As for mounts like yours the gussets added should help the side to side movement, as long as there are no spacers in between the seat and brackets. Just my opinion love how the trucks coming keep it up

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Jeff Furrier

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I let some rather large guys drive my truck a while back. When I was prepping it I noticed the mounts were bent. I added some 1/8" plates to make it a little stronger. I have MOMO seats and installed them on their brackets.

In my videos you can see the seats flexing a lot. Is that ok?

I prefer the solid seats way more that suspension seats.

They bent because the are mounted inside out.
 

ndvalium

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They bent because the are mounted inside out.

I'm obviously a donkey then. I'm not sure how that would make a difference though. They bent high up on the bracket not in the lower portion.

Jeff, I am very curious what difference it makes. It would seem to me that as long as they were mounted both tabs in or both tabs out it shouldn't matter with the structural integrity. What am I missing? I could see issues if one was one way and one the other. Other than that what changes?
 

PDANK Racing

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I let some rather large guys drive my truck a while back. When I was prepping it I noticed the mounts were bent. I added some 1/8" plates to make it a little stronger. I have MOMO seats and installed them on their brackets.

In my videos you can see the seats flexing a lot. Is that ok?

I prefer the solid seats way more that suspension seats.

I assume that flex will create a problem over time. The attachment points on the seat will weaken from the stress, as well as the mounting brackets. A shoulder level mount would control the flex.

One thing I've noticed is that most seats don't have a shoulder level attachment point, which is probably necessary for the forces produced by off road racing. If you think about it, not many seats are designed to handle the abuse, except for mastercraft, isp and a couple others.

Mounts- There isn't any directional support on those mounts, so they'll go either way. But these mounts are designed for a paved track, not to handle offroad abuse. They should be gusseted on initial installation.
 

Fire1998

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I've seen the car in person at the same shop my truck is getting some work done. The seat mounts did not break.....again did not break. The cage shifted 4" over towards passenger side. I saw both seats and mounts were not broken. 1 mount was bent....that was it. What you guys probably don't know is driver did not have shoulder harnesses completely on. He only had one on and was not secured. That right there is why drivers head the ground. The cage is now straight and did it's job!! Amazing. ...the cage pretty much popped back into place after a few of the bent tubes were removed. Good job on Fuzions part!!! Also all 4 corners of suspension suffered zero damage.....Pretty amazing after a crash like that.
 
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Bdub 1020

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Brian builds some strong vehicles. Amazing to me, all these rumors on RDC. Once I heard it was a Fusion build I knew there was something to it rather than the car coming apart and allowing drivers head to come out. I have seen videos of drivers not wearing shoulder belts to be comfortable CRAZY IMO
 
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Jeff Furrier

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Wider is is more stable, the mounts need to be installed so the bends appose each other for strength.

If the seats are mounted in the top position of some brackets, the brackets may bend because of added leverage and the beating they take in off road racing. Our bracket is actually shorter and made with thicker material to add strength, but the MOMO or Sparco bracket should work fine if mounted properly.

The seats do not need to be mounted at the shoulders if they are mounted properly at the bottom. The seat is will flex and return to its original position, that's how they are engineered. Mounting them at the top probably wont hurt, but it will make them more rigid which isn't necessarily a plus in desert racing.

Brackets bending isn't creating a safety problem when installed properly, we have 10s of thousands of miles and many wins on our bracket and others with no issues.

seat bracket positioning.jpg
 

WALSHMOTORSPORTS

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I've seen the car in person at the same shop my truck is getting some work done. The seat mounts did not break.....again did not break. The cage shifted 4" over towards passenger side. I saw both seats and mounts were not broken. 1 mount was bent....that was it. What you guys probably don't know is driver did not have shoulder harnesses completely on. He only had one on and was not secured. That right there is why drivers head the ground. The cage is now straight and did it's job!! Amazing. ...the cage pretty much popped back into place after a few of the bent tubes were removed. Good job on Fuzions part!!! Also all 4 corners of suspension suffered zero damage.....Pretty amazing after a crash like that.
The team and their prep shop have had the chance to dissect the car a little more and provided me with a few pictures. Here is what we know:

This is a 2007 Fusion Chassis The Sparco seats were mounted on the same style brackets that were shown in a previous post. The seat belts were attached directly to the cage. The shoulder belts were mounted on a bar approximately 6 inches below the shoulder level and then went up and over another bar at shoulder level directly behind the seat. The seats were mounted on an adjustable seat bracket although were all the way back and never moved from that position as all drivers were the same size.

Both seats shifted several inches. According to the car owner the seats were already against the window net prior to the crash. It didn't take much to shift them outside of the car frame.

On the Drivers seat, the brackets both bent and shifted to the left creating the tilting seat. On the passenger seat, the seat mount bolts broke from the tube on the right side of the car allowing that seat to tilt further towards the center of the car.

The tube that broke was the A pillar tube and indicated that it took the highest amount of energy.

There was also several bent tubes in the x bracing between the shock mounts to the rear of the passenger cage again indicating a hard drivers side hit.

The passenger portion of the cage appears to have shifted from the main frame and they are still determining the future of the car if they will repair it.

Other contributing factors to this in the shops opinion appear to be the window net style was inadequate to contain occupants inside the vehicle as well as using adjustable seat mounts. The point of break of the brackets to the frame was on the seat brackets.

Please understand and know it is not my intention to attack any builder, fabricator, prep shop, company, racer or anyone else in this. My goal is 100% focused on determining if we can prevent similar occurrences in the future for everyone in any series. Best in the Desert will review all this info and determine if any additional steps need to be taken in Tech to ensure we are meeting the expectations for the safest vehicles we can under the extreme situations.

I hope the information is helpful to some and gives you things to look at on your cars. No matter what organization you race with I want you guys to be as safe as possible and if my team ever sees a chance to improve things for others we will try and share info like this to you. As a side note, Scott continue to recover with his neck injury and we are thankful he has no deficits from this impact.



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I've seen the car in person at the same shop my truck is getting some work done. The seat mounts did not break.....again did not break. The cage shifted 4" over towards passenger side. I saw both seats and mounts were not broken. 1 mount was bent....that was it. What you guys probably don't know is driver did not have shoulder harnesses completely on. He only had one on and was not secured. That right there is why drivers head the ground. The cage is now straight and did it's job!! Amazing. ...the cage pretty much popped back into place after a few of the bent tubes were removed. Good job on Fuzions part!!! Also all 4 corners of suspension suffered zero damage.....Pretty amazing after a crash like that.

I'm by no means trying to stir the pot but it really looks like the seat mount set up did break.
 

WALSHMOTORSPORTS

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I'm refering to post #57 pics on this thread with the broken mounts in the pics. No they are not the actual Sparco type that broke its some custom bent 90 degree mounts that look broken to me.
 

ndvalium

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I've seen the car in person at the same shop my truck is getting some work done. The seat mounts did not break.....again did not break. The cage shifted 4" over towards passenger side. I saw both seats and mounts were not broken. 1 mount was bent....that was it. What you guys probably don't know is driver did not have shoulder harnesses completely on. He only had one on and was not secured. That right there is why drivers head the ground. The cage is now straight and did it's job!! Amazing. ...the cage pretty much popped back into place after a few of the bent tubes were removed. Good job on Fuzions part!!! Also all 4 corners of suspension suffered zero damage.....Pretty amazing after a crash like that.

Yeah they called me about that update the other day on the shoulder harness. Hopefully on their part that will never happen again. I know they are also going to change the seat mounts so it is a non adjustable. I will disagree in the fact that the shop told me and sent me pictures of the broken mount that was shown earlier. The window nets will also be changed to SFI rated material and mounting. There is no one piece that caused this incident. Even with the shoulder belts secure, the seat ended up outside of the cage and that was my main focus in this. I think it created some valuable discussion points and hopefully racers will take a few moments and check there seats, clearances, mounts, belts, and window nets.
 

Fire1998

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Yeah they called me about that update the other day on the shoulder harness. Hopefully on their part that will never happen again. I know they are also going to change the seat mounts so it is a non adjustable. I will disagree in the fact that the shop told me and sent me pictures of the broken mount that was shown earlier. The window nets will also be changed to SFI rated material and mounting. There is no one piece that caused this incident. Even with the shoulder belts secure, the seat ended up outside of the cage and that was my main focus in this. I think it created some valuable discussion points and hopefully racers will take a few moments and check there seats, clearances, mounts, belts, and window nets.

Yes there was 1 broken seat mount.....I forgot about it because it was on passengers seat not drivers seat. My mistake and apologize. I was not trying to spread misinformation. The drivers seat had no broken seat mounts. Again the upper part of cage shifted 4" to passenger side and driver not wearing his shoulder straps is what caused drivers helmet to hit the ground.....not a broken seat mount.
 

frostbite36

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I'm floored anyone would even consider racing without shoulder straps. That's like 1970 safety poop.

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