More Hideous than a Buckshot Car

[nickhead]

I am not one to pass judgment based on a few pics.. I have never designed or built anything from the ground up, so you will never see me start a post similar to this one. I am not on here to start a pissing contest, but I do think it is wrong to come on here and slam some pics of someone you do not know, and to slam Andrew Buck, when you your self have never built anything. Andrew Buck like him or hate him has done a lot for this industry, as he is one of the innovators, so in my opinion he deserves some respect. Remember, this is just my opinion, MY .02 Cents, nothing personal, you can take it as you wish, but I felt I needed to chime in on this one.

 

[pjc]

I am not one to pass judgment based on a few pics.. I have never designed or built anything from the ground up, so you will never see me start a post similar to this one. I am not on here to start a pissing contest, but I do think it is wrong to come on here and slam some pics of someone you do not know, and to slam Andrew Buck, when you your self have never built anything. Andrew Buck like him or hate him has done a lot for this industry, as he is one of the innovators, so in my opinion he deserves some respect. Remember, this is just my opinion, MY .02 Cents, nothing personal, you can take it as you wish, but I felt I needed to chime in on this one.

Gotti and thanks for being honest.

I am an engineer by profession and hence, I get real picky about anything that can be engineered instead of "created". Too add some stark financial reality, check out the local "for sale" ads full of hundreds of over-priced, sand cars and supposed "dual sport" cars that the owners will never see much more than 20% of their investment return on if at all. It's really sad and a result solely of an industry out of control a few years a ago.

I remember being frustrated about a decade ago waiting a long time for a prerunner from a highly reputable builder. Enter Andrew Buck a pal of a sales guy I employed. Having built nothing but sand cars, 'ol Andrew was ready to build the prerunner I needed to traverse thousands of miles of Baja and Nevada without support - no problemo! I call that calloused and careless which was unfortunately the pacesetter for what got way worse in the following years.

Like what I say or not, I don't think too many can dispute it.

 

[Alex Paterson]

I guess you missed my thread a few months ago about the Buckshot car in the classifieds. As of late, Andrew (Buck) has taken his circus over to Dubai to sell his ego strokes to the Sheiks. I wonder if he is repeating his stateside antics and has found a dune jump he repeats time, and time and time again to the entertainment of local mouth breathers.



There you go with your ASSumptions again as well as your inability to connect the dots. Clue = I am not a car builder.

What irks me is the small cadre of people behind this stuff and charge hard working and commonly unknowing people a shiat load of money for the ugly and unsafe crap they produce.

Ah, you don't like Andrew Buck so you saw a pic of some guy selling something on RDC that made you think of Buckshot so you decided it would be fun to bash this guys car because it reminded you of a bad experience you had.

Or is that just a bad, connect the dots ASSumption I just made because that is what it looks like now?

Like I said earlier, if you think this car is poorly designed and you feel you need to let the owner know then start a thread stating you think this car is unsafe and why. Who cares if you don't like the head lights. Instead of using your knowledge to bash this guy use it to help him out.

I don't know if you would agree (you have agreed with me once or twice ) but the sport is horribly over priced and full a builders selling there stuff for way to much money but that is the community and if we have gained anything from the economic down turn is the good, strong builders will survive. I know you are always fighting for that right in Purple so why would you change you ideas on Capitalism for offroad?

So be it if Buckshot has found a niche in Dubai, more power to him. From what I understand Geisers and Jimco have been selling a decent amount of trucks and buggy's to other parts of the world along with the big prerunner of Baldwin that went to a buyer in Dubai (rumor I heard..who knows) These companies have gone to were the money is.

There is a thread on Desert Rangers called crappy fab, maybe head over to there and post up.

Before I took my truck out to have it professionally built I built a lot of it and you know what...It was crap and I know it but I certainly would not have felt good if it had popped up in a thread on RDC from a reputable racer stating "WTF is this"

-Alex

 

[pjc]

"blah-blah-blah" removed - I do not care to partake.

The following is worth commenting on.

Before I took my truck out to have it professionally built I built a lot of it and you know what...It was crap and I know it but I certainly would not have felt good if it had popped up in a thread on RDC from a reputable racer stating "WTF is this"

This is the REAL BIG DIFFERENCE between you and I. If it's an opportunity to learn and step ahead I'll grab it. If it's uniformed and invalid comments I'll call it so. I definitely won't wring my hands, feel bad and hope for change.

 

[Alex Paterson]

Are you serious?

It looks like the fabricator bought only one tube bender die from Harbor Freight!

"blah-blah-blah" removed - I do not care to partake.

The following is worth commenting on.



This is the REAL BIG DIFFERENCE between you and I. If it's an opportunity to learn and step ahead I'll grab it. If it's uniformed and invalid comments I'll call it so. I definitely won't wring my hands, feel bad and hope for change.

Ok, so your wrong and I am right..just wanted to get it straight

Peace out Pat.

-Alex

 

[DUMP!]

This is a PM I recieved from PJC in respons to my leaving him (less) rep points

WTF is this?

Is how you choose to start the thread. Oh ya, now that you explain it to me I can see how I misinterpreted "WTF" for "this car is dangerous" and how "WTF" draws attention to the fact that the guy who built it is a "Unscrupulous Fabricator". Get real!!!! This is you standing on your soap box beating your chest just to make you feel better about yourself. Engineer I am NOT I don't have a day of formal education past high school and I don't think what ever you have that you call an engineering degree should be remotely compared to the people on this board that do have a "mechanical" engineering degree. If TZfab had not brought up the word dangerous I think you would still be looking for a legit reason to site for posting this attack on someone's work. Everyone has to start somewhere, though I doubt you would ever admit to starting at the bottom because your ego seems to get in the way. When I first started in racing I wanted to learn to weld so I picked up the welding torch and started welding. No one taught me, I just did it. The first time the thing ran out of gas I didn't even know it. The point is everyone starts somewhere. You know nothing about the car or the buyer or the builder. How do you not know that this is not exactly how the buyer wanted it. How do you know that the buyer maybe doesn't have a family member that has some kind of handicap and that the car is designed so that the family member can get into the car with everyone else. Also at what point do those ignorant enough to refi there homes, take responsibility for the buying a piece of crap car and admit they should have done a little research on the builder before buying. I know no matter how much experience I had, if someone approached me and wanted me to build them a car I would do it other wise that guy's just going to go to someone else. It's the buyers responsibility to do a little research on the builder just like it's the builders responsibility to build the buyer what they are expecting.

Dump

 

[pjc]

This is a PM I recieved from PJC in respons to my leaving him (less) rep points

Wow, so you think it is necessary to violate the concept of private conversation? Is this the way you operate all the time?

Originally Posted by DUMP!
There are many ways to go about what you did when you posted that thread. Unfortunately you choose the worst way.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Engineer I am NOT I don't have a day of formal education past high school and I don't think what ever you have that you call an engineering degree should be remotely compared to the people on this board that do have a "mechanical" engineering degree.

My field of expertise is in telecommunications as a technical and operational pioneer and entrepreneur. My track record speaks for itself.

If TZfab had not brought up the word dangerous I think you would still be looking for a legit reason to sit for posting this attack on someone's work. Everyone has to start somewhere, though I doubt you would ever admit to starting at the bottom because your ego seems to get in the way.

Another ASSumption. In my field, i started at the very bottom.

The point is everyone starts somewhere. You know nothing about the car or the buyer or the builder.

The builder is commercial and took the poor guy for $60k or more. Would you push your first piece of work on someone like that?

How do you not know that this is not exactly how the buyer wanted it. How do you know that the buyer maybe doesn't have a family member that has some kind of handicap and that the car is designed so that the family member can get into the car with everyone else.

Sound like the "hope and change" type of reasoning to me. I like to stick to facts and good data.

Also it what point do those ignorant enough to refi there homes, take responsibility for the buying a piece of crap car and admit they should have done a little research on the builder before buying. I know no matter how much experience I had, if someone approached me and wanted me to build them a car I would do it other wise that guy's just going to go to someone else.

Mike Julson and Kent Lothringer among others will not let a buyer dictate a mistake on their behalf. Thank God for them!!!

Surely you must agree that the off-road prerunner and Sand Car industry from 2002-2006 was overrun with horrid quality, unsafe engineering practices (if any) and proprietors that move from one easy scam to another?

Or, maybe not...

 

[Alex Paterson]

Wow, so you think it is necessary to violate the concept of private conversation? Is this the way you operate all the time?



You are entitled to your opinion.

My field of expertise is in telecommunications as a technical and operational pioneer and entrepreneur. My track record speaks for itself.

Another ASSumption. In my field, i started at the very bottom.

The builder is commercial and took the poor guy for $60k or more. Would you push your first piece of work on someone like that?

Sound like the "hope and change" type of reasoning to me. I like to stick to facts and good data.

Mike Julson and Kent Lothringer among others will not let a buyer dictate a mistake on their behalf. Thank God for them!!!

Surely you must agree that the off-road prerunner and Sand Car industry from 2002-2006 was overrun with horrid quality, unsafe engineering practices (if any) and proprietors that move from one easy scam to another?

Or, maybe not...[/QUOTE]


I agree 100% that the sand industry is a WHOLE different ball game then offroad racing. You know that, I know that and most of the people in here know that so why bash it or bash an owner of a sand car, it serves no purpose.

If someone went up to Julson today and ordered a car I doubt he is going to ask him if that money was from the refi of there home or not. Juslon is a business man and in it to make money. He builds a great car but they aren't perfect.

-Alex

 

[pjc]

I agree 100% that the sand industry is a WHOLE different ball game then offroad racing. You know that, I know that and most of the people in here know that so why bash it or bash an owner of a sand car, it serves no purpose.

Hmm.. you may be right there... for once!

If someone went up to Julson today and ordered a car I doubt he is going to ask him if that money was from the refi of there home or not. Juslon is a business man and in it to make money. He builds a great car but they aren't perfect.

-Alex

Where the money came from is largely not his business. Building something he can stake his name on sure is.

We love our 2k and, I can't say enough good things about the prerunner Kent built. It's 7+ years old now and going as strong as ever.

 

[Alex Paterson]

Hmm.. you may be right there... for once!



Where the money came from is largely not his business. Building something he can stake his name on sure is.

We love our 2k and, I can't say enough good things about the prerunner Kent built. It's 7+ years old now and going as strong as ever.

Julson builds a great car and if I was ever in the market for one I would surly stop in Jimco. Whats your Prerunner? I assume its a buggy from what you have said so far.

Alex

 

[pjc]

Julson builds a great car and if I was ever in the market for one I would surly stop in Jimco. Whats your Prerunner? I assume its a buggy from what you have said so far.

Alex

Kent built the Prerunner. My business partner owns it now. We ordered a 10 car from Kent in 07 but he was so backlogged we ended up buying the Jimco from the original owner. Love that car, it has brought us good memories for life so many times already.

 

[43mod]

you do not get it, and probably never will.

 

[Samco Fab]

I think it is weak to bash this guys work. The massive amount of time and commitment it takes to build this stuff, and then have somebody just spit on it just to try to be a bully is lame. If there were saftey concerns then title the thread about that. Then to claim that he is ripping somebody off because you dislike the looks of the car.

At least he is not just copying what everyone else does to a T, and if you have ideas to add to saftey, then bring those up to help people out.

Even Jimco has had to add tubes to cars after they were built, and yes this thing looks like it could use a couple of tubes in the A and B pillar area.

What about the comment of horizontal rod ends where there should have been uniballs? I remember RG's pre runner with horizontal rod ends for his front upper and lower control arms. There are lots of ways to do things correctly.

 

[SEANY]

This thread is so weak and makes RDC look bad. I wish the builder of this car all the best of luck and I hope it gives him and his family meny years of fun and smiles.

As for pjc your a real D bag for starting a thread like this, don't get me wrong there are alot of racecars, prerunners and other things in this industry that I don't care for but I have enough respect to keep it to myself. I am only 24 years old but I think you could learn a thing or too from me, listen to others and only give opinions when your asked. My dad tough me this and I think you need to try the same, its not always the guy that talks the most that knows the most.

 

[pjc]

Awe fine.. A few of you have your opinions and I have mine. good for you - good for me.

I just wish a few of you had the integrity to consider a response to the question:

"Surely you must agree that the off-road prerunner and Sand Car industry from 2002-2006 was overrun with horrid quality, unsafe engineering practices (if any) and proprietors that move from one easy scam to another?"

 

[bajaxp]

Awe fine.. A few of you have your opinions and I have mine. good for you - good for me.

I just wish a few of you had the integrity to consider a response to the question:

"Surely you must agree that the off-road prerunner and Sand Car industry from 2002-2006 was overrun with horrid quality, unsafe engineering practices (if any) and proprietors that move from one easy scam to another?"

Caveat Emptor

 

[charlie_brown]

Awe fine.. A few of you have your opinions and I have mine. good for you - good for me.

I just wish a few of you had the integrity to consider a response to the question:

"Surely you must agree that the off-road prerunner and Sand Car industry from 2002-2006 was overrun with horrid quality, unsafe engineering practices (if any) and proprietors that move from one easy scam to another?"

yea but, they had nice paint jobs

 

[Alex Paterson]

Awe fine.. A few of you have your opinions and I have mine. good for you - good for me.

I just wish a few of you had the integrity to consider a response to the question:

"Surely you must agree that the off-road prerunner and Sand Car industry from 2002-2006 was overrun with horrid quality, unsafe engineering practices (if any) and proprietors that move from one easy scam to another?"[/i]

Wow, so you think it is necessary to violate the concept of private conversation? Is this the way you operate all the time?



You are entitled to your opinion.

My field of expertise is in telecommunications as a technical and operational pioneer and entrepreneur. My track record speaks for itself.

Another ASSumption. In my field, i started at the very bottom.

The builder is commercial and took the poor guy for $60k or more. Would you push your first piece of work on someone like that?

Sound like the "hope and change" type of reasoning to me. I like to stick to facts and good data.

Mike Julson and Kent Lothringer among others will not let a buyer dictate a mistake on their behalf. Thank God for them!!!

Surely you must agree that the off-road prerunner and Sand Car industry from 2002-2006 was overrun with horrid quality, unsafe engineering practices (if any) and proprietors that move from one easy scam to another?

Or, maybe not...[/QUOTE]


I agree 100% that the sand industry is a WHOLE different ball game then offroad racing. You know that, I know that and most of the people in here know that so why bash it or bash an owner of a sand car, it serves no purpose.

If someone went up to Julson today and ordered a car I doubt he is going to ask him if that money was from the refi of there home or not. Juslon is a business man and in it to make money. He builds a great car but they aren't perfect.

-Alex

I did agree with you

 

[Samco Fab]

Unfortunately, The demands of the buyers often make sand cars that are ultra light and sometimes ultra dangerous. I have said the same thing to sand car guys , and they see easy entry, light weight and "clean" looks.

Racers see necessity and saftey, others see jungle gym tubes and weight.

I say Savage needs to set up a booth at Glamis and charge $250 a pop for an inspection!

 

[Haycock]

How about the horizontal heims where uniballs should be?

QUOTE]

just out of curiosity, wheres those heims that should be unibals?

if the builder or owner came on here showing this thing off telling how bad ass it is or how hes going to win races with it or whatever then i could see maybe critiqueing the safety of it. but just finding those pics with out any info on how the guy uses it or what the situation is, its uncalled for!