NASA style fueling operation

prepguy

Well-Known Member
the way i see it in the rules mark millercheated you can not pit on the race course why dont miller come run laughlin he only runs baja because thats were he can cheat if you are going to race race by the rules winning is no fun if you want to cheat
 

ntsqd

Well-Known Member
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Also, what is this "spirit of the rule" thing?? I thought it was our JOB to find loopholes in the rules to better the other guy?

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A "spirit and Intent" clause exists in nearly every sanctioning body's rulebook. Also applies to laws, you might technically not have broken the law and the Judge CAN still find you guilty of violating the "spirit and intent" of the law.
 

SILAHUA

Well-Known Member
in what way will that be considered cheating?

Do believe that SCORE stated that the pavement is not part of the racing course is just a passage to the next part of course
 

Ryan_Arciero

Well-Known Member
In no way did we cheat, and I am sorry you think that we did. We won that race fair and square. You cannot penalize someone for thinking outside the box. We broke no rules in the rule book nor have Mark and I ever broken any rules. The highway just as stated in another response was considered a transition period.
And to answer your last statement about running in other SCORE races, just like NASCAR has a different car for different races, we know what vehicle works for the Baja 500 and Baja 1000. We have the right vehicle for those races. We know very well that the truck that we have is not capable of winning in Laughlin, San Felipe, or Primm. We completely realize that. Mark and I have been around this sport most of our lives, and the two of us would love to run the entire season, but unfortunately we do not have the right vehicle for the races in the States and our sponsors or the sponsors that we are workin on only like for us to race the Baja 500 and the Baja 1000. Maybe in the future we will, and I can tell you this for a fact, if we do we will be a team that will run up front.
 

SILAHUA

Well-Known Member
well said Ryan
 

hoeker

Well-Known Member
great race ryan and mark, especially after an incredible night on wind tunnel. that was my first time watching the show and i was glad you guys are a part of our community. good luck in your search for sponsors for Dakar and if it doesn't work out i'd like to invite you guys to come race CORR with us. Every time i think of that refueling picture i smile!
 

SILAHUA

Well-Known Member
by any chance did anyone tape te show or has it on a clip to put it on the web
i worked late tath monday and could see it and i looked for any reruns but could find it
 

Ryan_Arciero

Well-Known Member
They are going to show one of the last airing on the Wind Tunnel Show Thursday, Nov. 25 at 11:00pm pacific.
 

Ryan_Arciero

Well-Known Member
I just wanted to say that on behalf of Mark and myself we really appreciate everyones support. Lets keep this sport moving forward.
 

poolman

Well-Known Member
You guys should get back on the show to tell the "rest of the story".I'm sure Dave would appreciate the Race win,fueling,etc.pm
 

GeoffMilke

Well-Known Member
Mark

Great idea!!! Have you shown the idea to the military? Seems to me they could use it to refuel their fast moving attack vehicles (Amtracks, AAVs, Humvees....etc) and save them from having to park to refuel (where they are sitting ducks)

On a side note............I'm guessing .this technique probably only saved a minute .......max, since the top teams can do a fuel only pit in about 30 seconds, (including slow down time)
 

mmr1

Well-Known Member
I would like to applaud Miller/Arciero for their ingenious fueling plan. I have read the rules and do not see how they cheated in any way. For those of you out there that have made negative remarks about this, shame on you! This sport will never progress any farther unless we have people that push the envelope and develope new strategies/technologies. Rather than chastising them, you should be congratulating them for their creativity!
 

JrSyko

Jerry Maguire
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For those of you out there that have made negative remarks about this, shame on you! This sport will never progress any farther unless we have people that push the envelope and develope new strategies/technologies. Rather than chastising them, you should be congratulating them for their creativity!

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AMEN!
 

pciscott

Well-Known Member
Mark Miller is a great salesman! He sold all of you what he did was right. What he did was take track position from his competition. What is track position in an off road race? Is it a minute? Is it an hour? Mark Miller may have only saved 1 minute by fueling on the highway, but Trophy Truck #7 had to follow him from San Matais pass towards San Felipe. I had to eat Mark Miller dust for over 50 miles. How much did this hold me up? Would Mark have had a flat following my dust if he would have pitted? What he did was change the outcome of the race. I will give you an example of what I mean by track position; Mark Post was called by the Herbst about 100 miles out, they were in his dust and asked if they could get by and go for the Overall win. Mark Post let the Truggy go and they got the overall win, if they would have been stuck in #3's dust the outcome of the race would be different. By Post giving up the position he also let Dave and Dan catch him and he lost second place in the points and The Baja 1000. Troy sign that 20,000 check over to Mark that will buy him enough Don Julio to get over what he did by letting you buy. What rules did Miller break? #1 Rule GPT3 "Any pit vehicle running on or near the race course that is endangering the entrants, race officials, or spectators, could call for the disqualification of the particular vehicle for which they are servicing or pitting. No pit vehicle may follow or lead a race vehicle on the race course." What aspects of this rule did they ignore? First off fueling on the highway is not safe, I do not care how much practice or who engineered it. The possibilities of a fuel fire are greatly increased no matter how you slice it. The second part of the rule is he had his chase vehicle follow him down the highway it says you cannot do this in the rules. Their car was running fine they did not need to be pushed down the highway! Now the next rule that was broken Rule GPT8 " All pits must be at least fifty feet (50)' off the edge of the race course. No pit may be in the first fifty feet (50)' leading into and the first one hundred feet (100)' leading out of any turn. The #81 team pitted in the middle of the course they may say they did not pit or what is your definition of pitting, but I call a spade a spade and putting fuel in the car is pitting in my book! I hear some of you calling the highway sections transit sections? This was the Baja 1000 it is not a rally race. The race started in Ensenada and finished in La Paz, there were no transit stages. Next rule CR22 FUEL FILLER LINES, VENTS, and CAPS This rule is long, so I will just give you a small part of it. "Fuel filler lines and caps must be mounted in a location where they cannot be knocked open or off during movement of the vehicle. All fillers must be located within a line drawn from two extremities of the frame or body structure so as to prevent opening during a roll-over or accidental impact." Their fuel system stuck up over the back of their car and should have never passed tech in the first place! My question is did you guys add anything to your car after tech? A little over a month ago we all sat in a Trophy Truck meeting about how we needed to clean up what we are doing. I guess it was a waste of time! Sal you have two choices; number one throw your rule book out the window, or step up and enforce them! Mark, Ryan and team you should not take advantage of your friends, as you know from talking to me at the race you have lost some of my respect.

P.S. I will post a full race report on #7 next week when I get back after the Holidays, I am off to Parker.
 

CFRchip

Member
There has been talk as to how much time was saved with the "on the run fueling". The point has finally been made. It is not so much about time as it is about track position. If the strategy kept Miller out of somebody's dust or kept somebody in Miller's dust, then by all means, their strategy worked. I'm sure that this was the intent.

It may not be allowed "specifically" in the future, but I think it was OK this time around and I applaud the idea.
 

Mark_Miller

Well-Known Member
Scott, I would expect more than that poor loser attitude from you. Technically cars on not suppose to be on the race course, I assume you had pit vehicles drive past san ignacio just like everyone else. But in the grand scheme you were outsmarted. The meeting we had was about respecting your fellow competitiors. There was no lack of respect given to you or anyone else. We applied technology to win.
You have never seen the device so there is no way for you to establish how safe it is, NO WAY! Its to bad you had to eat dust, just like I had to suffer through your dust for the first 111 miles, but I wasn't so stupid to try and pass you when it could have ended my race. I had to eat Robby dust also, but I didn't wreck my truck trying to get by him. I passed Robby and you when you were parked changing tires. Did you ever think maybe you were driving to hard?
you are citing rules to make it sound as if you are an authority on where this and you are not. Like I told you when we spoke about this in La Paz, I feel bad for you because you crashed and I feel bad for you that you can't accept it, but I am proud as hell to beat all the Trophy Trucks and it was fair. I believe it was over 20 minutes to the second place truck. I'm gone for Thanksgiving so I hope you and everyone on the board has a Happy Thankksgiving.
 

mmr1

Well-Known Member
Perhaps they may have changed the outcome of the race by utilizing this method of refueling. Whether Miller/Arciero be right or wrong, why weren't they DQ'd and why didn't you protest if you feel so strongly about it?
 

FABRICATOR

Well-Known Member
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A little over a month ago we all sat in a Trophy Truck meeting about how we needed to clean up what we are doing. I guess it was a waste of time!

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Tricky and innovative, yes.
Got away with it, yes.
Unfair advantage, yes.
Smart, no. Because it was unfair and did vilolate clearly written rules.
It's cool when something is done and immediately stopped because it is simply too advantageous.
But in this case it will be stopped because it is just plain unsafe.
 
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