New BLM Rules

Desert_Roller

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Here's a little more information:

I was faxed copies of the new proposed course maps for Barstow and Lucerne, there was no legend on the maps, but they clearly showed the existing course's and what appears to be a new shorter course in both areas. I don't know if they were approved.

I've been told by a photographer from a company we all know, that the BLM has been trying for 2-3 months to collect a fee to photograph on public land for commerical use.

I was told by a motorcycle dealer tonight, that 2 bikes tested, bone stock, came in at 92dbA and that testing will be done at 3,000 rpm.

Remember, when racing in Nevada, you must: pit only in designated areas, chasing is very limited if not prohibited, and you must use a fuel containment device while fueling. I heard of 2 people being issued $ 750.00 tickets at the Henderson race, for being in a off-limits area. Not to mention the Nevada BLM refusing to let our trailer, supporting 5 racecars and 2 TT's into pit B because the area was full.

California is not that bad yet..........I just hope that what happens in Nevada stays in Nevada.

Tom Sobray
F.A.I.R. President
www.fairpits.com
 

stuckthrottle

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i've been reading bits and pieces regarding the legality of photography in public areas for some time now and if its for commercial use you most definately need a filming permit no matter what (many times you must also provide proof liability insurance plus a host of other goodies). unless, of course, youre shooting in private property, in which case you then need a permit (permission) from the owner.
what i dont understand is, what is the point of doing this if any one person, say a race promoter, can get a permit that covers ALL photographers? Well besides the obvious of course, money.
 

Dillon

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
i've been reading bits and pieces regarding the legality of photography in public areas for some time now and if its for commercial use you most definately need a filming permit no matter what (many times you must also provide proof liability insurance plus a host of other goodies).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the most assinine thing I've ever heard. I can understand this as a Hollywood side effect, but WE OWN THE LAND! Whats next, can't take a picture of my front door? Maybe its old news but this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a very long time. Can someone point me in the right direction for legislature on this one?
 

snoreracer

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Tom, these rules have been in affect but they are just getting to enforcing them. the blm has tried for 2 years to get promoters to charge media to get their pass. score and snore told the blm we will not collect fees for you. Tom on the Nevada restrictions, yes there are some more than the open areas of California. but you have no choices in California, it's course a or b and it's been raced on time after time and it's scaring the land. In just the Las Vegas blm district last year there were 56 different desert events and all on different tracks. The blm in Vegas does not want to run the same track year after year and in their words "be torn up like Barstow" . I have been to government land meetings and the sierra club show photos of Barstow and tell everyone that is what is happening to public lands and we need more wilderness
 

BlueCoyote

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Not to get too far off topic.
So more fees and permits.
Tracks are being restricted and getting torn up from continual use.
Pit areas need grading.
So what exactly does our $100 per race entry fee go for?
 

DailyPedal

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It seems to me that the rules are reasonable enough and have existed for some time...pallets suck and we all know that. I cringe every time I see some idiot burning a pallet or wooden crate. The photo rule will only affect those that use the desert to profit. As a professional photographer, I am accustomed to fees, permits and press passes when I am shooting something business related. The permits establish responsibility-who you are, who you work for, and most importantly, who will pay when things go wrong while shooting-typical business stuff. If you have been shooting and selling the images, then you have been acting like a business and are selling something that you got for free and now you must pay-it's the American way, get over it.
 

empire231

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screw that! yeah your gonna take pictures for profit(business), get your permit! but i'm not, and yeah i dont need a permit, but you know what, i'm gonna be getting hasseled by every ranger out there for holding a camera just because this new law is gonna be enforced. for all they know, i could be w/ a bussiness so they're gonna stop me and ask me right? they're gonna make me prove it right? and what is this about the NOISE? is this a joke? who are we bothering or disturbing out there? all the people that go out there should expect noise! it's an offroad race=fast trucks w/ lots of HP. have you ever heard of a quiet stock-car or indy car? and for the people just staying at the desert, it's not the hilton! noise comes along w/ the hobby/sport, we're talking about dirtbikes,quads, sandrails, and trucks! this isn't the inner city, for god sakes most of these places are in BFE. for example; dumont, you gotta drive through 3-5 hours of mostly desert, until you get to a small town (baker), and then you have to drive another 40 or so miles of plain a$$ desert to get there. so tell me, who are we bothering when were out there? until they start putting out electric dirt bikes or a hybrid sandrail motor pushing out 400+ HP there's always gonna be noise involved. the reason all of these (in my opinion) dumb laws keep getting passed is because orginizations like the sierra club have lobbyist who push these ideas to congress, and what do our fellow congress men want? they want to be re-ellected, so they will do their best to pursue these laws. is there any orginizations for people who like the desert the way it is, and do they go to congress against these laws? any republicans??
 

IDRA_CRB

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Empire,

These are regulations not statutes. Regulations do not require legislative approval or passage. They do go through a process which provides for input from the public, however entities like the BLM, EPA, CHP, etc, are empowered by statute to adopt "Reasonable" regulations.

Reasonable is always a subjective term!


Reese
 

empire231

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how many more of the reasonable regulations are they gonna pass? they can word any regulation there own way, and make it sound reasonable. but all they really are doing is just gaining more control. this is the thing that any city,state, government, fed. authority has dreamed of.
 

Greg

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Lets see, no more nails allowed in the desert, that sounds good. People paying a small fee to make money form the "venue", this also sounds fair. As for making a rule to stop some clown from riding around on some clapped-out '78 yz 490 without a silencer, im all for it. I really doubt the blm is gonna site racers for a noisy race car, or even bust someone out there with a camera, but if you have a gaggle of photo equipment and a tripod and an suv packed with even more stuff, they might ask to see your permit. As for land, i can tell you what 60 acres in rialto costs, it aint cheap!!!
 

Paige

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Okay I got ahold of the BLM's OHV guy and here is the skinny ~ 2 years ago they passed a rule - a nails in firewood rule. The way the rule is written, possession of a pallet for use a firewood (why else would you have a pallett out there) can get you a ticket at the officers discretion.

The filming thing is old and Nathan is the one in charge of it. They have always required vendor permits, but about 3-6 mos ago they realized that those filming should be under a seperate permit, i.e. the filming permit.

The race courses - they have indeed indentified two race courses in both Johnson and Stoddard. They are shorter - 34 - 40 miles - so a 400 mile race will be 10 laps - which is better for viewers I suppose. He said that the Johnson longer course was broken in two. I did ask about the fact that running a shorter course over an entire season can impact the deserts ability to repair itself. He said that with a 3 month interval in between the use of each course does help provide a sustainable approach to having designated race courses. I pressed that folks in the CBD may use pics of the courses as their calling card for whatever they start to push in the future, and he said that is something they are continuing to look at. I told him that I am concerned about shorter race courses that are used 3-4 times a year - over the course of a few years may have a detremental impact and then he spoke of possible course maintenance to help alleviate that problem. I know that they do that on some of the motorcycle courses and that is standard for some trails as well. SO who knows where this course designation will lead.

The EMS personnel - with a 40 mile loop and the requirement of someone be every 10 miles, that is 4 people. They would like first responders to the be the first on a scene, but are lowering the requirements to someone who is CPR and First Aid Certified. The point is if someone crashes that there is someone to them in a short period of time that can stabilize any injuries until help arrives.

No mentioned yet in this thread - is an upcoming fee demo for El Mirage, Stoddard, Johnson and Dumont. They are going to try and roll this out apprarently to off-set the shift in their budget that will be allocated to implementing the WEMO plan when it is finalized. There is no $$ in the WEMO plan thus far....I was told that the fees will help to keep the open areas taken care of by the BLM. So far they are planning on charging $20/week or $60/year on site for all the above listed locations. If you purchase via phone, web or outside vendor there is a $5 discount. The pass is for an RV camping unit, which would be everything that comes in behind an RV, Race car, ATV, whatever. If you show up in your truck, then the pass is for your truck.. He said that they are going to release a business plan for thjs Fee structure that I'm sure they will take comments on. It seems that the fee thing is something they are starting to do more and more to off-set the loss of funds. The only bonus is that the funds will then be used in the open areas for stuff like course maintenance, etc.

So that is what I got from the BLM Barstow. In all it doesn't sound too unreasonable. The nails are a problem, so don't bring pallets - bring firewood, The filming thing sounds like a redesignation of who gets permitted, the EMS thing - I don't see a problem with more saftey personnel, and the fees, well those always get resistence - so I will be interested to see how those play out.
 

John Bitting

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I would pay a yearly fee to use the desert. I pay for lift tickets for snowboarding, I pay to enter theme parks, I pay to park to use the beach. If it helps keep it open and us having fun. I am all for it.

Thank you for calling Paige.
 

sirhk100

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Would that money truely go back into those areas? Does it ever really go where they say it does.

We already pay to go to Glamis, I guess there have been some improvements there. More law enforcement and uhhhh, oh some closed areas, and uhhhh... Well, at least the money is spent well!!!

I've got no problem paying either but it sucks when they say that they will put the money into the areas and you never see it.

Ocotillo Wells on the other hand is a SVRA area and it's definately seen some money over the past 5-10 years. They've enlarged the SVRA dramatically, added cabanas for camp shade in TONS of remote areas, added showers and decent bathrooms in common camp areas, etc...

So, if the money truely does make it back to where they say it will, that's great but I'm always skepticle of that!!!

Khris
 

snoreracer

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Page, the track maintenance thing will come back and bite some promoter. Last year the 13 mile score laughlin track cost over $4,000 to blade. Add this to a 40 mile track and it's pricey. In the Vegas district all power line roads raced on must be bladed and all other roads need to be in pre race condition. At a snore race under those rules it costs about $2,000 to blade a 80 course with volunteers and rental equipment. If snore was made the blade the entire track it would cost much more. one last thing I work on my car to get as much wheel travel as possible to work in the ruff, if we blade the whole track mite as well pave it.
 

empire231

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i have no problem paying a fee either, but keep in mind, when you go to a amusment park, snowboarding, etc you are paying because it's privatly owned or else your paying for a service. i'd like to see some improvements if everyone is paying the fees. in glamis, the only improvements i saw were those nice funco rails that the rangers got; now they get to have fun while they bust your A$$.
 

sirhk100

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That's exactly what I'm saying... Glamis they promised 100% of the money would be returned to the area. I havn't seen that much $ on improvments.

Ocotillo Wells has seen MAJOR improvments in the past and they don't charge any money. All of the funds for that area was paid for out of the green/red sticker people, you're welcome Austin
.

Right there you've got one case where they promised something and it's not happening, or at least not happening to the affect that everyone was hoping. And, you've got another example of money being invested in ways that everyone paying to sticker their buggies and bikes was hoping.

What will happen in Johnson Valley?

When I go up to Johnson Valley 99% of the time I stay at our cabin across the highway from the riding area out by Sledgehammer, Jackhammer (rock crawling trails) and the large dry lake bed with all the old bomb craters in it. Will I have to pay to ride my dirt bike across the highway into that area like we've been doing for the past 17 years?

Khris
 

Desert_Roller

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F.A.I.R. meeting
Wednesday August 6, 2003 at 8:00pm

Mike Ahrens, the Barstow area OHV Program Coordinator will be our guest speaker.

I talked to Mike earlier today, very knowledgeable guy. He will be talking about what is happening today and what is planned for the future in the Barstow area. Mike will also have maps of the new Lucerne race course's.

FYI the Barstow A / B courses remain unchanged.

If you have questions, here's the place to ask. All are welcome to attend.

Fullerton Radisson 222 West Houston Avenue Fullerton, CA 92832 714.992.1700

Tom Sobray
F.A.I.R. President
www.fairpits.com
 

1992f150

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I dont like the idea of taking funding away from an area, then making fees to the users to compensate. They will never give the money back so the fees will never go away. This is exactly like the aventure pass crap. Forest service doesn't get enough money budgeted to them, so they decide to charge you to park on roads in the forrests. Roads that the gas tax should be paying for. I already pay for a fishing license too, so why should I have to pay more money to go park on a road to go walk to a stream and fish?
Same thing with offroad, if I pay a green sticker fee to use my quad, why should I have to pay a second fee at dumont? If they want to increase the green sticker fees, thats ok I don't mind paying one time every year or two, but paying multiple fees every time I want to go use PUBLIC land is rediculous...
 
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