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New Toyota based Pro Comp Raptor killer!

bobsson

Well-Known Member
No doubt Ted you guys have done a nice job however you should be the first to acknowledge that what Toyota has put forth is not in the same caliber as the Raptor.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, this isn't Toyota putting this out, it's Pro Comp and they chose to use a Tundra for whatever reason.
 
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Bajated

Well-Known Member
I don't work for Toyota/TRD anymore, I'm now Director of Engineering for Transamerican Manufacturing Group, the parent company of Pro Comp, Rubicon Express, Smittybilt, Poison Spyder Customs, Trailmaster, G2 Gear & Axle, and LRG wheels.

The last project I worked on at Toyota was the 2017 TRDpro Tacoma, which will have 2.5" Fox internal bypass shocks on it. The Bilsteins on the Hotel Tacoma trucks were probably the 2015 TRDpro shocks. The TRDpro Tundra easily keeps up with the Raptor; we rented a couple of them during development of that package and confirmed that the Tundra performance is better overall, and it doesn't have the Donkey Kick Raptors are known for. Raptor's have a lot more appearance items, and one big off road advantage is the 35" BFG KO tire, which I wanted to put on the Tundra but couldn't get approval from the Tundra Chief Engineer in Japan. Long, bureaucratic story that I can share over a beer.

Pro Comp chose the Tundra and F-150 for the first two long travel suspension systems because they are popular with our target customer; Someone who wants to go play, chase or prerun using their daily driver. These packages can be pre-installed at the dealer, installed by a 4Wheel Parts store or in your driveway. They really do transform the performance of the vehicle. We have tested them in Baja and the CA desert, and have done FMVSS testing on them, which is something that no one except vehicle manufacturers usually invest in.
 

Jerry Zaiden

Well-Known Member
The Bilsteins on the Hotel Tacoma trucks were probably the 2015 TRDpro shocks.

The TRDpro Tundra easily keeps up with the Raptor; we rented a couple of them during development of that package and confirmed that the Tundra performance is better overall, and it doesn't have the Donkey Kick Raptors are known for.

We built the Hotel Tacoma trucks here at Camburg. We went very mild on the suspension as these trucks were for "appearance". We installed Bilstein 5100 shocks with KMC wheels and General AT2 265-75-16 tires.

As for the TRD Pro to the Raptor, I agree. The TRD Pro is very similar to the Raptor in performance out of the box. I think people get all caught up into the factory fenders looks etc. What people don't understand is the stock Raptor arms and the stock Tundra arms are about the same length and booth trucks get about the same travel. Difference is the Tundra has Larger better parts, Rear end, steering, transmission, more power etc.

We have also done a ton of testing with these trucks and yes we feel the Tundra is a better truck for many reasons. Until you own both and or test both you wont understand.
 

12LaPaz

Well-Known Member
Every time I see a toyota it reminds me of a goldfish that was fed too much food, they are ugly as sin and no upgrade is ever going to make then look good.
 

johnnyweb

Well-Known Member
We built the Hotel Tacoma trucks here at Camburg. We went very mild on the suspension as these trucks were for "appearance". We installed Bilstein 5100 shocks with KMC wheels and General AT2 265-75-16 tires.

As for the TRD Pro to the Raptor, I agree. The TRD Pro is very similar to the Raptor in performance out of the box. I think people get all caught up into the factory fenders looks etc. What people don't understand is the stock Raptor arms and the stock Tundra arms are about the same length and booth trucks get about the same travel. Difference is the Tundra has Larger better parts, Rear end, steering, transmission, more power etc.

We have also done a ton of testing with these trucks and yes we feel the Tundra is a better truck for many reasons. Until you own both and or test both you wont understand.
If you had to go out and buy a factory truck to pre run the Baja 1000 which would it be? I'll bet 8!out of 10 would pick the Raptor for obvious reasons. The other two (1being BJ) is getting financial gain from Toyota and would have to pick the Toyota because of it.


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GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
Kudos to all involved. It isn't easy putting something like this in motion, be it big or small (in your mind) its something to hang your hat on! Off roading wins again...
 

Jerry Zaiden

Well-Known Member
If you had to go out and buy a factory truck to pre run the Baja 1000 which would it be? I'll bet 8!out of 10 would pick the Raptor for obvious reasons. The other two (1being BJ) is getting financial gain from Toyota and would have to pick the Toyota because of it.


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To answer your question because I have owned both. I would pick the current Tundra TRD Pro over the current Raptor. I feel everything on the Tundra is built with much higher quality. Ball joints, forged spindles, stronger steering etc...

If I had my way I would then bolt on a set of Fox DSC coilovers and a set of our upper arms in the front and a set of Deaver's and Fox DSC rear shocks and go. I would not personal buy a TRD Pro Tundra because I would rather have our kit over the factory kit. BUT I have also spent 4 days in Baja with all the TRD Pro trucks... Tacoma, 4 Runner and Tundra and they are all more than capable. The Factory internal Fox shocks work great. But IMO not as good as the Fox with DSC. But just like Raptor guys they all change out the stock shocks, rear springs add air-bumps and arms.

Like I said before the Raptor is just a stock F-150 with wider arms (about the same as stock Tundra) less expensive Fox OEM internal by-pass shocks and come with great looking fenders and and a better rims and tires.

What really cracks me up is how the 2010 Raptor looks exactly like a Tundra I helped Ted build for the 2007 SEMA show when he was at TRD.
 

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TRAVISD

Well-Known Member
To answer your question because I have owned both. I would pick the current Tundra TRD Pro over the current Raptor. I feel everything on the Tundra is built with much higher quality. Ball joints, forged spindles, stronger steering etc...

If I had my way I would then bolt on a set of Fox DSC coilovers and a set of our upper arms in the front and a set of Deaver's and Fox DSC rear shocks and go. I would not personal buy a TRD Pro Tundra because I would rather have our kit over the factory kit. BUT I have also spent 4 days in Baja with all the TRD Pro trucks... Tacoma, 4 Runner and Tundra and they are all more than capable. The Factory internal Fox shocks work great. But IMO not as good as the Fox with DSC. But just like Raptor guys they all change out the stock shocks, rear springs add air-bumps and arms.

Like I said before the Raptor is just a stock F-150 with wider arms (about the same as stock Tundra) less expensive Fox OEM internal by-pass shocks and come with great looking fenders and and a better rims and tires.

What really cracks me up is how the 2010 Raptor looks exactly like a Tundra I helped Ted build for the 2007 SEMA show when he was at TRD.

If you are going to do all that wouldn't you just buy the regular Tundra TRD and save a few bucks
 

JrSyko

Jerry Maguire
Like I said before the Raptor is just a stock F-150 with wider arms (about the same as stock Tundra) less expensive Fox OEM internal by-pass shocks and come with great looking fenders and and a better rims and tires.
Jerry you are on glue! Have you actually spoken to anyone who helped develop the Raptor? Why don't you call John Marking and talk to him or Todd Tenbroek. They spent months (years) out in the desert with Ford engineers developing that truck. Talk to Greg Foutz. Talk to BFG. They all invested countless hours developing that truck.

The Toyota is no doubt a good truck but you are comparing apples to oranges. If the front arms are the same size and quality then why does Camburg make a replacement arm for the Tundra? The stock Raptor ones work great. I have 15k miles of Baja on my Raptor arms without replacing anything. How many stock F-150's or Tundra's have that? The reality is you have a financial incentive to push Toyota because you want to sell more kits to make them better. Pure and simple. And no matter what you say the proof is in the pudding, you see WAY more people buying and using Raptors for light pre-running and chasing duties than you do Toyota's. Hell at the Baja Italy Rally I was at last week there was 2 Raptors entered in the stock class, I didn't see any Tundra's.

The Tundra is a great platform but its not as good as a Raptor off the showroom floor as its not designed for that. Once you go out and buy a bunch of Camburg parts for it maybe it becomes even better than a Raptor but not from inception. Toyota even acknowledges that and they don't even attempt to market the truck as a Raptor. The Tundra is a badass truck and a great platform. With Toyota's legendary off-road motorsport history I would LOVE to see them actually build a challenger to the Raptor. They could make something really capable and if the platform is better as you allege perhaps it would be even better. But for now they are two different classes of trucks and you look silly for trying to argue otherwise so just sit back and don't make yourself such a target, you won't sell as many kits that way :)
 
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Jerry Zaiden

Well-Known Member
The Toyota is no doubt a good truck but you are comparing apples to oranges. If the front arms are the same size and quality then why does Camburg make a replacement arm for the Tundra?
1st We make parts for the Tundra because we can and the Tundra is a great platform, actually better than the Ford. 2nd We make replacement parts for both the Tundra and the Raptor. We actually sell more for Raptor upper and lower parts than we do Tundra's. Why so many Raptors? Not sure ask all the guys with Raptors. But from what I see the stock raptor parts fail all the time lowers and spindles. Keep in mind people are buying the Camburg raptor replacement parts to replace the stock parts. Also look at all the other companies out there that only focus on Raptor parts.

The reality is you have a financial incentive to push Toyota because you want to sell more kits to make them better. Pure and simple.
We have a gain with all trucks. We don't dislike the Raptor we just KNOW from owning both the TUndra is a way better truck. Read this again... Bigger brakes, Bigger stronger rear end, bigger ball joints, bigger rack, bigger steering pump, better trans, stronger engine, etc. etc...



And no matter what you say the proof is in the pudding, you see WAY more people buying and using Raptors for light pre-running and chasing duties than you do Toyota's.
Because it is a cool looking truck with sizzle. It comes with fiberglass fenders and comes lifted from the factory. BUT something to consider is how many Raptors are sold a year vs. How many Tundra Pro trucks? Keep in mind Tundra TRD Pro is only sold in the USA. Also the Tundra TRD Pro is usually sold for $5000 over sticker.

Hell at the Baja Italy Rally I was at last week there was 2 Raptors entered in the stock class, I didn't see any Tundra's.
Raptor is a globally sold truck as the Tundra is only in the USA.

The Tundra is a great platform but its not as good as a Raptor off the showroom floor as its not designed for that.
HAve you driven the new TRD Pro? Before you make this claim you should...

Once you go out and buy a bunch of Camburg parts for it maybe it becomes even better than a Raptor but not from inception.
A standard Tundra yes but for $3000 and a $35,000 Truck you will have a more reliable truck with stronger everything.

Toyota even acknowledges that and they don't even attempt to market the truck as a Raptor. The Tundra is a badass truck and a great platform. With Toyota's legendary off-road motorsport history I would LOVE to see them actually build a challenger to the Raptor. They could make something really capable and if the platform is better as you allege perhaps it would be even better.
Yes and Ford even regrets marketing the Raptor as a race truck. lol

But for now they are two different classes of trucks and you look silly for trying to argue otherwise so just sit back and don't make yourself such a target, you won't sell as many kits that way :)
I am just speaking as a person who has owned both and more (Chevy Silverado, Nissan Titan). I have experience with all the trucks on the market because we make parts for all of them. I am only giving my opinion with real world experience. Have you driven the Tundra TRD Pro off-road? I have I have also driven the Raptor in stock trim many times. Honestly I was not impressed with the stock raptor at all. Yes when you add the FOx shocks and better parts they feel way better but nothing like a LT Tundra, F150 or Silverado or even an LT Raptor for that matter. lol
 

pdailey

Racer
A $55k stock Raptor will outperform a stock $51k Tundra Platinum all day long in the dirt. You get a lot of bells and whistles in a Raptor. GPS, sunroof, leather, GPS, A/C and heated seats, 35" shocks, Fox shocks, etc etc etc in a Raptor than you do in a Platinum Tundra if you want to compare apples to apples.
 

bajafox

Accepted
The Rock Warrior isnt much, just Bilstiens and a factory spacer up front...

The Pro comes with a better suspension package than the Rock Warrior I believe.

I spent just under $30k on my 2010 Rock Warrior. I hope to spend about $10K on long travel and rear suspension by the time Im done putting me around $40k total when it's all said and done.

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f1sleepy

Well-Known Member
A rock warrior is not a TRD Pro...
Of course it's not. Isn't the travel the same though? It's essentially a shock upgrade when it comes to the suspension. It takes more than a couple shocks to keep up with the raptor due to the raptor having more travel along with a wider track width, upgraded traction control systems and shift mapping for the trans. I'm not a huge raptor fan by any means, but the Tundra (even the trd pro) is not on the same level. Sure, if I dropped a tundra off at the Burg with a stack of cash for a bunch of upgrades, I could have a "raptor killer" for more than what a stock raptor costs, but that's not the point now is it.

As far as the "superior" factory Toyota parts, that's a little subjective. My front rotors warped well before my front pads needed replacing, something that has been a fairly common issue among tundra owners. There are plenty of other issues the Tundra has like garbage paint, cheap plastic panels both inside and out and a few other issues. The reality is both manufacturers chose where to skimp...
 

johnnyweb

Well-Known Member
Come on Jerry you sound like Hillary Clinton in denial. Explaining her way around things. Apples and Oranges are both "fruit" but far from the same.

I got an idea, cage one of the TRD Pro's and race Foutz in the stock production class? I know you tried racing a Stock Full Toyota against Fords before and well lets just say the Toyota did not show to be better. HahHaHa lol. From what you are saying it would be a no brainer the Toyota is a better truck so it would win right? Better this & better that how could you loose?

So you must love Chevy's even more hence the "bowtie" on the front of the race truck. When is the race truck getting a Toyota engine? After all it is far superior to the Ford then it must be better then Chevy. Why else would B.J. switch from Chevy to Toyota. ;)

If the Toyota is even in the "ball park" of the current Raptor its got a whole new thing coming with the 17 model. The guys I have talked to that have gotten to go test the new ones say they are amazing.
 

JrSyko

Jerry Maguire
If the Toyota is even in the "ball park" of the current Raptor its got a whole new thing coming with the 17 model. The guys I have talked to that have gotten to go test the new ones say they are amazing.
30% better than the previous Raptor is what I'm hearing from multiple sources.

And Jerry is in denial, he lives in HB, land of the flat bills and white fenders where Toyota's are what's cool. haha
 

Bajated

Well-Known Member
What really cracks me up is how the 2010 Raptor looks exactly like a Tundra I helped Ted build for the 2007 SEMA show when he was at TRD.
One of my regrets is that I couldn't convince our management back then to move that orange long travel Tundra into production. Then Toyota would have beaten the Raptor to market and everyone would be calling the Raptor a copy.

The original point of this thread is whether you like the F150 or the Tundra better, you can convert your truck into a high performance off road vehicle for less than the cost of a new Raptor or TRDpro Tundra with our new Pro Comp long travel suspension systems. You can even buy them off the lot already built and finance the whole package together with a great warranty.

Now why don't we all get off our keyboards and go have some fun in the desert!


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