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New UTV class rules needed in offroad racing?

ItsYourLegacy

Well-Known Member
I am bringing this up again due to the fact that it is important whether anybody believes so or not.
At approx. 2 hours; 57 minutes and 30 seconds in to the 2020 KOH UTV race coverage (post #50 here 2020 King of Hammers!!!!! )...two racers attempted to flip their vehicle without the benefit of a properly controlled line and everybody well clear. The result was predictable and well could have affected fellow racers on the course.

Question: Why do we ignore even talking about these incidents immediately after they happen?
 

DTPMS

Well-Known Member
I am bringing this up again due to the fact that it is important whether anybody believes so or not.
At approx. 2 hours; 57 minutes and 30 seconds in to the 2020 KOH UTV race coverage (post #50 here 2020 King of Hammers!!!!! )...two racers attempted to flip their vehicle without the benefit of a properly controlled line and everybody well clear. The result was predictable and well could have affected fellow racers on the course.

Question: Why do we ignore even talking about these incidents immediately after they happen?
It was a racing incident. They flipped it over by hand and it wasnt in park. oops 🤷‍♂️ What potential rule would have helped this?
 

calstyl2

Well-Known Member
They got damn luck that thing didnt roll all the way down to bottom, and thats a long way down on Emerson Ridge, and directly onto the Marine Base at the bottom
 

C4

Well-Known Member
They were in a race and found themselves on their side. Fist thing that you think of is shut everything down. Second is get out! EVERYONE can easily say it was a dumb mistake not putting it in park, including the driver and codriver. However, there are very few of us that would remember to do that. There is no "rule" that would have changed that situation nor will it change it in the future. It was just a simple mistake. I bet they will remember next time though, and if they continue racing KOH, there WILL be a next time.
 

mgobaja

Well-Known Member
So is this proposed new rule a " common sense " test, if so, lots of folks are going to fail
 

Dave Cole 4454

Well-Known Member
It wouldnt have rolled directly onto the Marine Base.

This is thread is about as stupid as the other 5 times youve brought it up.

It was a dumb mistake. If you think there could or should be a rule against this AND you think its enforceable I strongly encourage to stop spending so much time watching race coverage and more time tuning into the Democratic Primaries.

Im not holding anyones hand while they do this.

He made a mistake, paid the price and toughed it out to a second place finish.

Hopefully other people can see the impact of the mistake and avoid making the same decisons.

Next
 

ItsYourLegacy

Well-Known Member
It wouldnt have rolled directly onto the Marine Base.
...yet rolled over/smashed against a rock in terms of somebody else's (obviously) kid or yet another crash head on with another car coming up the same hill is...what?...ok?

This thread is about as stupid as the other 5 times youve brought it up.
I brought it up (again) due to intentionally ignoring anybody being AVOIDABLY run over on a race course is...drum roll...stupid (period).

It was a dumb mistake.
How is it nothing but a "dumb mistake" when nobody will even so much as declare it as a problem? A "mistake" is flipping a car on it's roof and living through it. When thank God you climb out of there and COMPOUND? It's an immediate safety issue for everyone else on the course.

"..If you think there could or should be a rule against this AND you think its enforceable.."
Hold the phone...there **COULD** be a rule against this (who makes the rules here?)...there definitely SHOULD be rules against anything resembling this...and if "enforceable" is (suddenly) at issue...how did we learn about this in the first place? Are you telling me that demanding redundant cameras in every car and demanding that all footage be complete as the final price of a podium is..."unenforceable"... for safety's sake?

'm not holding anyones hand while they do this.
He made a mistake, paid the price and toughed it out to a second place finish.
If "holding someone's hand" means preventing what just happened from ever happen again then I certainly believe that you will not. The only way that either of those racers would have pad a price that day is with the unthinkable and that same podium (period).

Hopefully other people can see the impact of the mistake and avoid making the same decisions.
Nobody dares speak of it and CanAm was never penalized for it. Who 'saw' the impact of anything given the former, latter and a 'piss off' to the guy mentioning it witnessed by every kid out there trying to figure out what a real safety legacy in motorsports is all about?
 
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06Chevy4x4LT

Active Member
A rule requiring some sort of automatic, spring applied/hydraulic released parking brake (like they have on everypiece of equipment in the underground mine I work in) would help to avoid this scenario. Not that I recommend it.. they are a HUGE pain in the ass! 😉
 

BigBlue&Goldie

Well-Known Member
...yet rolled over/smashed against a rock in terms of somebody else's (obviously) kid or yet another crash head on with another car coming up the same hill is...what?...ok?


I brought it up (again) due to intentionally ignoring anybody being AVOIDABLY run over on a race course is...drum roll...stupid (period).


How is it nothing but a "dumb mistake" when nobody will even so much as declare it as a problem? A "mistake" is flipping a car on it's roof and living through it. When thank God you climb out of there and COMPOUND? It's an immediate safety issue for everyone else on the course.


Hold the phone...there **COULD** be a rule against this (who makes the rules here?)...there definitely SHOULD be rules against anything resembling this...and if "enforceable" is (suddenly) at issue...how did we learn about this in the first place? Are you telling me that demanding redundant cameras in every car and demanding that all footage be complete as the final price of a podium is..."unenforceable"... for safety's sake?



If "holding someone's hand" means preventing what just happened from ever happen again then I certainly believe that you will not. The only way that either of those racers would have pad a price that day is with the unthinkable and that same podium (period).



Nobody dares speak of it and CanAm was never penalized for it. Who 'saw' the impact of anything given the former, latter and a 'piss off' to the guy mentioning it witnessed by every kid out there trying to figure out what a real safety legacy in motorsports is all about?
You really are the only one that seems to care at this point. The rest of us realize it was an oversight that no rule would've prevented.

Maybe join a gun forum and educate them on how enacting more gun laws will prevent violent crime. Be sure to mention such successes stories as Chicago, Los Angeles, etc.
 

sand shark

Well-Known Member
I am bringing this up again due to the fact that it is important whether anybody believes so or not.
At approx. 2 hours; 57 minutes and 30 seconds in to the 2020 KOH UTV race coverage (post #50 here 2020 King of Hammers!!!!! )...two racers attempted to flip their vehicle without the benefit of a properly controlled line and everybody well clear. The result was predictable and well could have affected fellow racers on the course.

Question: Why do we ignore even talking about these incidents immediately after they happen?
You sure come up with some interesting stuff. Talk about trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. The driver admitted he made a mistake when he tried to chase it down. Stuff happens and be thankful that lapse in judgement did not result in a serious injury.
 

ItsYourLegacy

Well-Known Member
Im sure that somewhere in your diatribe there is an intelligible point.
I cant find it.
Can you sum it up in one, non run-un, sentence?
Safety first, setting an example for our kids (safety legacies) second and lastly, safety penalties when both are ignored to instruct the latter. Insulting all who suggest otherwise has been the well documented pack mentality in this sport for decades (see above) which will sadly bring an end to it.
Safety is a very simple controllable 'standard' somewhat akin to swearing on the podium but with far greater consequences. Nothing is preventable while safety is teachable given consequences (ask the Marines at the bottom of that hill).
 
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vegasloki

Well-Known Member
Safety first, setting an example for our kids (safety legacies) second and lastly, safety penalties when both are ignored to instruct the latter. Insulting all who suggest otherwise has been the well documented pack mentality in this sport for decades (see above) which will sadly bring an end to it.
I’ve had licenses with Nascar, SCCA, NASA, and a CIK/FIA International license. There isn’t anything in any of those rulebooks that would apply to something like this. I haven’t raced SCORE, BITD or the Mint but they don’t have a rule like that either.

You’ve been asked a few times but have avoided answering. What would a rule like this look like? How would it be written? How would it be enforced? A punishment could be issued after the fact but that doesn’t prevent mistakes. You’re basically left with banning them but it’s a standalone race so that’s not much of a deterent. And it still doesn’t prevent it.

That’s weak sauce playing the “think about the children” card. If you are concerned that much you shouldn’t have your kids in the open desert next to an unguarded, hot race course. It’s up to you to raise your kids, not me, not the off road community. Although based on your rants you might give someone else a shot at raising them because if they turn out anything like your rants they’re going to have a tough time in life.
 

Kyle D

Well-Known Member
Safety requires thought. I work in a fairly dangerous field where there’s lots of “rules” yet somehow or another someone doesn’t follow them occasionally and gets injured or worse. As a person who is able to think on my own and figure out what could happen by thinking ahead a couple steps, I strongly encourage you to take your desire to create more rules and find something a little bit safer to be passionate about such as backgammon, Yahtzee or maybe crocheting. What we need to do, as a whole for our younger generation to really learn, is teach them how to think on their own. We do not need to create some stupid rule for them to not know why it’s there and eventually ignore. That creates a vicious cycle of creating yet another rule that somebody won’t know why it’s there, then they’ll ignore that rule and you’ll call for yet another rule. Rules don’t help, people that can think on their own do.
 

EMS702

Rescue 1
You are racing. You roll while racing. You have done this before. Just like the last time you get out to roll UTV back over. Only this time you are on a hill not a flat race course. In the heat of the race and with Adrenaline going and an eagerness to get back into race, You mistakenly forgot to put rolled vehicle in park or set a brake. Lesson learned. As many others posted not sure what RULE prevents this. As a team, if this happens in future try to be calm and if not on fire try and remember to put Vehicle in gear. The OP does not make mistakes. Every mistake does not require a new rule
 
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