No prerunning Vegas to Reno

MAC56

Well-Known Member
BITD has had enough of the illegal prerunning of the race courses, the excuse that its open land is just that an excuse. The rules say NO for a reason, actually many reasons. If you run the course at all you are putting the event in jeopardy and you are cheating.
the use of trail cameras will allow for monitoring and severe penalties per BITD ownership.
so cut that poop out!
 

mxben

Well-Known Member
Where did this come from??

Using the same protocols as SS300? Is there typically a pre run?
 

9rocky

Well-Known Member
Where did this come from??

Using the same protocols as SS300? Is there typically a pre run?
The OP usually leads a prerun if there is one at BITD. He knows what he is talking about. Racing in the USA is precarious at best, especially over this distance. Why not just take the advice from someone who has been around for a long time (@MAC56 ) and follow the rules?
 

mxben

Well-Known Member
The OP is wh

The OP usually leads a prerun if there is one at BITD. He knows what he is talking about. Racing in the USA is precarious at best, especially over this distance. Why not just take the advice from someone who has been around for a long time (@MAC56 ) and follow the rules?
I have no problem following the rules. Just wondering how that info came out so quickly and if it was standard procedure for these races?
 

9rocky

Well-Known Member
I have no problem following the rules. Just wondering how that info came out so quickly and if it was standard procedure for these races?
@MAC56 had stated in the Silver State thread that the reason there is no longer a pre run for V2R is that the private land owners were tired of having their $ hit tore up by all the activity, so no more pre run, but there is a race. When there were pre runs the leader was always a orange Bronco driven by @MAC56 with Casey Folks with him. He knows what he talks about.
 

cynicwanderer

Well-Known Member
I have no problem following the rules. Just wondering how that info came out so quickly and if it was standard procedure for these races?
V2R never has a pre-fun-run that I'm aware of. I suspect because of some of the discussions in other threads about pre-running SS300, it was decided to post a note just to make sure that everyone understands. I'm not sure what the timeline is for when it's OK to be on BLM land which happens to also be the course. I suspect once it has been tagged/flagged then it's a no-no. if you are out there with a race vehicle or a "pre-runner" on the marked course, it's pretty obvious as to what you are doing.

there are several other race formats where it's not OK to pre-run. E.g. AMA sanctioned Enduros have a no pre-run rule. the course layout is a "secret" and you don't want to have people guess where the checkpoints will be to get an unfair advantage for scoring purposes. Portions of the V2R are not the same year to year and having knowledge (or a good guess) of the checkpoints makes it easier to cut the course.

Having it be part of the BLM permitting process adds even more reason. besides that, it's also a safety issue. people get hurt and die in Mexico pre-running all the time. this is back country and there is no medical staged anywhere when the race isn't actually going on. I'm sure BITD and BLM as well as private property owners don't want to deal with that added liability of someone getting hurt pre-running. '

However, if they are going to have the rules, they do need to enforce them as well for everyone (pro as well as amateurs). I.e. I don't think I know anyone who has ever been DQ'ed or fined because they got caught "bird watching" on a BITD course. if so, then I stand corrected. it needs to be public knowledge that people get caught in order to dissuade people from doing it. I.e. rules/laws without enforcement are not really rules.
 
Last edited:

yachtman

Well-Known Member
It was a great Pre run back in 1983, the first V2R Places to stop , watch the entertainment, eat ,drink and sleep. So sorry you racer can't pre run it
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
I respect the effort and totally understand the premise here, but I'm not sure how you truly enforce this. Unless you obviously catch someone in person or on camera in a prerunner with numbers on it, how can you validate that A) the are truly "prerunning" and B) which team they are with? My guess is the guys who have already been doing this over the years are smart enough to figure out a way to get out in these areas in unmarked vehicles that would difficult if not impossible to track down.

Even if you throw up cameras...I assume tons of people use those roads all the time so the idea that someone is going to look at even one single camera for months and filter through hours upon hours of footage to try to weed out who's just driving there versus prerunning is going to be near impossible.

At the end of the day people probably shouldn't do it but this seems like a really tough thing to enforce in reality.
 

cynicwanderer

Well-Known Member
case in point... last weekend returning from SS300 we met some people on an organized desert trip (some kind of off road club) at tonopah who were following past V2R tracks. one of the guys I talked to was wearing a BITD T-Shirt and told me he was going to enter V2R this year. so, how would one interpret this.
 

ekozy39

Well-Known Member
Isn’t KOH BLM land too? I don’t know what ULTRA4 rules are on prerunning, but know for a fact there are teams put heavy laps in.
 

dhjeepgeek

Well-Known Member
case in point... last weekend returning from SS300 we met some people on an organized desert trip (some kind of off road club) at tonopah who were following past V2R tracks. one of the guys I talked to was wearing a BITD T-Shirt and told me he was going to enter V2R this year. so, how would one interpret this.
The rules say no pre running. But the course isn't marked. So it isn't the course yet. Being on the course for other reasons is just a bonus. V2R is a ways off. The course isnt posted so the info may be wrong anyway. They change parts of the course every year. If the course is marked and the rules say No pre running, then it would be breaking the rules, thus cheating. I don't like cheaters
 

cynicwanderer

Well-Known Member
The rules say no pre running. But the course isn't marked. So it isn't the course yet. Being on the course for other reasons is just a bonus. V2R is a ways off. The course isnt posted so the info may be wrong anyway. They change parts of the course every year. If the course is marked and the rules say No pre running, then it would be breaking the rules, thus cheating. I don't like cheaters
yeah, one of my points in a previous post. at what point does "bird watching" become pre-running... i.e. when the course is marked with flags/flagtape ? or when the permit gets approved or when the GPS tracks get posted ???

also, there are really only a limited number of routes esp. in the northern part of the course. E.g. pretty much just one route from rawhide to finish and a few routes to rawhide.
 

MAC56

Well-Known Member
For many years the Vegas to Reno pre-fun run was the most fun you could want at a US race. My first with BITD was 1998 (I was at the first HDRA Frontier 500 years before) Quickly Casey and I became Good friends and he asked me to drive him on the prefun runs and thats when I became infected with BITD volunteer-virus. During the days together we talked about all the trials and challenges of putting on an offroad race. Every year it gets harder and harder. The prefun runs almost have as much work to set up as a race.
The Vegas to Reno prefun runs stopped a few years ago for two significant reasons, first if significant biological damage ( one turtle killed) then the race could be stopped. The second and ultimately the final reason was the county dirt roads received so much damage that they couldn’t be fixed quickly enough and then again after the race resulting in Two months of problems for locals/ ranchers etc. They currently will live with the post race period because of the economic benefits the area receive. The ability to have this race is a delicate balancing act.
So the question is who wants to be responsible for ending this race?
The competition question is the rule is no prerunning Period. If you think than you can justify cheating because it is not marked yet, or its an open road you are still CHEATING.
So you say if I don’t get caught its not cheating then look hard at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself “would i have won if i did not prerun”? if the answer is yes then you didn’t need to put the race in jeopardy and cheat, if the answer is no then you didn’t really win anything.
You can be caught using a variety of methods,some obvious some not and quite clever.
I have loved this sport for more than 40 years and believe we all have a responsibility to keep it sound, enough said.
 

cynicwanderer

Well-Known Member
For many years the Vegas to Reno pre-fun run was the most fun you could want at a US race. My first with BITD was 1998 (I was at the first HDRA Frontier 500 years before) Quickly Casey and I became Good friends and he asked me to drive him on the prefun runs and thats when I became infected with BITD volunteer-virus. During the days together we talked about all the trials and challenges of putting on an offroad race. Every year it gets harder and harder. The prefun runs almost have as much work to set up as a race.
The Vegas to Reno prefun runs stopped a few years ago for two significant reasons, first if significant biological damage ( one turtle killed) then the race could be stopped. The second and ultimately the final reason was the county dirt roads received so much damage that they couldn’t be fixed quickly enough and then again after the race resulting in Two months of problems for locals/ ranchers etc. They currently will live with the post race period because of the economic benefits the area receive. The ability to have this race is a delicate balancing act.
So the question is who wants to be responsible for ending this race?
The competition question is the rule is no prerunning Period. If you think than you can justify cheating because it is not marked yet, or its an open road you are still CHEATING.
So you say if I don’t get caught its not cheating then look hard at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself “would i have won if i did not prerun”? if the answer is yes then you didn’t need to put the race in jeopardy and cheat, if the answer is no then you didn’t really win anything.
You can be caught using a variety of methods,some obvious some not and quite clever.
I have loved this sport for more than 40 years and believe we all have a responsibility to keep it sound, enough said.
I think we all understand the various reasons for not pre-running the race. The biggest question we have, is at what point/period is it pre-running as opposed to driving around in the desert at posted speed limits, etc... most races that have no pre-running rules, say something like within 48hrs or 1 week or something like that. it would also be much more enforceable that way. not, in any way, trying to be a d*ck about this, but we really need a definition of what BITD and BLM considers pre-running. we all love racing and recreating in the desert and don't want to jeopardizing our access.thanks.
 
Top