Off-Road Future

btshannon

Well-Known Member
Posts
718
Reaction
358
Did someone mention duct tape? Sorry guys. I do think that if you want to get on TV, you might as well take your own pictures and do as Ollie suggested, and find an affordable production company. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that someone who reads this knows someone else who is in that field and may be able to help out. I think that the tough part would be selling this show to some dude back east who decides what goes on the air. Maybe a publicity stunt like a backflip? Once again, sorry guys.

My own taste for the hops is very powerful, and I had no intention of spending a beerless weekend...
 

Catawampus

Well-Known Member
Posts
154
Reaction
0
I am not sure the big issue is getting on television, but rather how to maintain and advance the sport of off-road desert racing. Being a 9 car driver, if off road racing ever came to being on TV, I’m sure I would be watching it on TV – unless they wanted some footage of someone getting passed. What concerns me the most is the sport, and the great community that is involved. It bothers me to see it struggle, when so many other sports, from lawnmower racing to pumpkin launching get promotional spots and aired on TV. The primary issue is how can we organize and promote the great sport it is?

If you concern is about getting aired on TV, write to the following:

http://msn.espn.go.com/sitetools/s/contact/espntv.html
http://espn.go.com/abcsports/askabcsports/
sports@msnbc.com

Fat chance – I know, but o-well . . .
Kim
 

PBR

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,326
Reaction
135
how would you advance off-road racing without tv???

one of the big problems is the blm, a few years back the fireworks 250 was the best event as a spectator because you could watch anywhere. during the race there wasn't a part of the course that didn't have spectators there to root you on. and to me that is what is missing. during a bitd race you don't even have spectators. why the fireworks 250 was in the hottest month of the year in barstow is still beyond me (except for the name fireworks). district 37 takes the summer off because of the heat why don't the off-roaders take note.

i know somebody in the production business who would be happy to help out... me!!! i work for a production company that would totally give sal or casey a smoking deal. but i honestly don't think tv is their priority. as long as they can get entries paying $800+ per race i don' think they care.

ollie.

Penchansky Brothers Racing
 

Jimmy8

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,653
Reaction
1,292
Having a very good friend who competed in Dirt Jumping at the X Games this past week, I have learned quite a few things. First of all, off road desert racing is very popular with the extreme games crowd or athletes. Many of the top pros in the industry live in Vegas, and I know for a fact that they watch some of the score, snore, and BITD races in the area. Off road racing needs to be marketed as an extreme sport. I know a back flip in a TT will never happen, but other things can. The Laughlin leap is a great start. Why not have jump qualifiers at the score laughlin race, maybe the Parker race, and then Henderson. These are all qualifiers for the big show at the x games at the end of the summer. Filming a jump contest for a half hour tv slot on prime time espn, is a lot cheaper than filming an entire race for an hour time slot. This may not be the racing side of the sport, but it builds interest, and possibly other things will follow. Remember the Dave Mirra BMX tour last summer, when dave drove the H and M class 7 ranger for the afternoon. Great exposure, and I am sure a lot of people went to the internet after seeing that wanting to know what the heck that tricked out truck was. I am just throwing out ideas here, but I know people are aware of the sport, it is just getting people to watch it. I think more people viewed the dezertpeople movie than many of you think. It blew some of the bike riders minds that I know. They can relate to a video like that because extreme sports as you call them have dozens of videos that come out weekly. Another thing, making money and having publicity is not selling out, it is just good business. Isn't it everyones dream to make a living out of their hobby they love, well until things change off road will remain a hobby except to a small percentage.

Trophy Truck #15
www.jimmybeaver.com
 

pciscott

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,639
Reaction
708
PBR, do the math. The bigger the promoter the more costs involved. If you think any of these promoters are getting rich you are mistaken. With ten promoters in offroad racing none of them are getting rich. The bigger the business the bigger the target, that means Sal pays more fees for a race in Laughlin than Snore. More cost = higher entry fee and double the headaches. Entry fees have been pretty constant for the past 5 years, except for insurance fees. If we want our sport to grow it is going to cost money, the problem is most of us spend all we can afford to make it to the race. Where is this money we need to elevate our sport going to come from? Later

God Bless America

Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
 

pciscott

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,639
Reaction
708
Jimmy, I think I could do a back flip in my Trophy Truck. There just would not be much left after the landing! I one time did a front flip endow and landed back on the wheels in the Mini Mag and never missed a beat. I've also gone from a champ to a chump in one bump! As far as X gamers, Daina Nicholson from Fleshwound films thinks offroad racing can go big. I hope he is right, he will be riding with me at Primm. He hopes to have a off-road video out for Christmas.

God Bless America

Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
 

Jerry Zaiden

Well-Known Member
Posts
9,852
Reaction
1,184
Scott,

The money is going to have to come from us (the racer). If we want it to go huge it is going to be a lot of work. TV is not going to make this sport popular. We are going to make it popular. We need to get people to the desert via in person or on movies like never Lift, Rock Busters, Dezert People, etc..... People like Dana Nicholson ( one of the main reasons Moto-x is where it is/ free style moto cross in the main stream), need to do a video and hit the already main stream markets. (CROSS OVER).
Just think if desert races where on channel 7 tonight do you think the majority of the normal viewers would watch it? Do you think they would all fall in love with the sport? I personally do not think that they would. I think we need to make our sport big on our own. But do you think we can? How many of us will spend $1500 entry fees? how many will only race a "XYZ" promoters race? We all want the sponsor dollars but we can't all get together and make it happen. Like some say it is like herding cats-we all have our own agendas. Kreg Donahoe made a very good point-" we need heroes" who are they? When we have them? When we do will people support them?
On another note, when we have the sponsor dollars do you think the current racers will get the help they deserve or will a Dale Ernhart Jr. get it?
 

Rory

Crayola Killer
Posts
6,596
Reaction
3,888
1996 was the year, Dave Dispain and Bob Bower were the guys behind the mic's, and ESPN was the channel. The show was well put together, exciting, lots of drama, and even some funny stuff. Whoever was running the show back then needs to be contacted again to see how to do it. For all of you that have seen those shows, am I right? Wasn't that some of the best footage! Dave Dispain is the man! Bob Bower got lots of interesting info out of the drivers. It's been done, just need all the right pieces again.
BTW OLLIE, stop typing and get that truck back together. We know your motor is done now....can't wait to see you back out ther again. December at the BITD race maybe?

Racers Only
 

Curtis Guise

Administrator
Posts
12,582
Reaction
3,415
Wow. that's cool to hear some of the BMX guys saw our DP video.... I have been into BMX forever also.

Anyone remember the Mini Metal Bash? Well myself and about 10 or so other volunteers put together a 15 - 20 minute show in one day to play at the awards that night. I spent a good part of the day in Billy's bus and the hotel room editing it on my Mac Powerbook. Plus we had Bob Bower working with us. That pretty much shows you how easy it is to put something together, but like everyone is saying on here it won't happen unless you have money. I know most of the people that worked on putting that together wouldn't do it again unless they were getting compensated for it. Plus it would be better to have a budget to get a heli for filmng. And the biggest cost would be paying for the TV spot. But anyway a bunch of you have covered that allready. And then you have the Laughlin race that was filmed and put together but it still hasn't been aired yet. ( I think they were even going to use some of my ground camara shots too) Not sure what the deal was with that but I know a good amount of money was thrown around to make it happen. I guess not enough to the TV station though....

can't wait to see how Dana's video turns out. Maybe at this point videos like ours are going to be the only way we can get the word out.
 

Catawampus

Well-Known Member
Posts
154
Reaction
0
Jerry,

I agree. Who will take the lead? Where is our hero? The off road community is a varied and individual bunch. Can a strong coalition be formed? If not, then it is up to each and every one of us to promote our sport or it will continue to fall.

Kim
 

btshannon

Well-Known Member
Posts
718
Reaction
358
I must side with Rory on this one. Everybody's talking about the future and how we could break through to a mainstream audience. I seem to remember that the trophy truck racing came real close to breaking through to being a viable product. It was about six or seven years ago and the TT race was usually held on a separate day (except in Baja), and a lot of the buggy guys and the limited truck guys would spectate and dream. Unfortunately, there were some very serious accidents that caused corporate America to get very nervous and find another, safer arena to spend their money. We need to look at how close desert racing came to being very popular among the masses, and need ta analyze where it all went wrong. An accident involving an ESPN camera guy in Barstow a few years ago comes to mind.

My own taste for the hops is very powerful, and I had no intention of spending a beerless weekend...
 

Gabe Lara

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,003
Reaction
18
Heroes?

Mickey Thompson...Rod Hall...Ivan Stewart...Larry Ragland...The Mears Gang...Robby Gordon...Jimmie Johnson...The Simons... Dave Westhem... John Swift... Scott Douglas... Manny Esquerra... Curt LeDuc...
Mike Lesle... Doug Fortin...
I think these guys can be defined as my off-road racing heroes.

Of course there are always the "New Breed" Damen Jeffries, Scott Steinberger, Alan Pflueger, Chuck Hovey, The Myers Gang....Hell, the list can go on and on!

I agree with Kim. Without a strong coalition/ affiliation, as well as organization, the different organizations probably will not get the recognition on the same level, dare I say, as NASCAR, IRL or the NHRA.

We all know its going to take a LOT of $$$, and on a lighter note, if I win the Cali Lotto this weekend, I'd be glad to give it a shot!

-Gabe
 

Catawampus

Well-Known Member
Posts
154
Reaction
0
Yes – your list is impressive, but what I was getting at, and I believe the intent of Jerry’s post, - is there anyone out there willing to step-up and provide leadership and direction for the advancement of off road racing.

Kim
 

Billy_the_Kid

Well-Known Member
Posts
166
Reaction
0
So you want TV exposure? And you want to make the races more “spectator friendly”?

Do like the Ivan Stewart PRO Trucks and bring your race trucks, buggies, and party craving appetite to Crandon, Wisconsin August 30th - Sept. 1st for a lesson in marketing and short course racing. Championship Off Road Racing (CORR) is where it’s at!! We’ve got a smokin’ TV deal on Speed Channel, and spectator friendly viewing of the races as well as the pit area. They charge $25 per spectator for the weekend (with no extra pit pass needed) and people pay it. Lots of people pay it. Tens of thousands of people pay it…

Anyway, we’ve also got big sponsors like: FORD, GOODYEAR, BFG, RANCHO, TRAIL MASTER, LUCAS OIL PRODUCTS, PRECISION GEAR, K&N, etc. Marty Reid – President, Jamie Devney – Marketing, Jim Conner – Contingency, and all the people at CORR have all done an incredible job of promoting off road racing in the Midwest, and the fans absolutely love it. WHY? Because all of the racing action is right there in front of the fans, on short courses, that are easily viewable. Just ask Curt LeDuc, or Carl Renezeder, or Evan Evans, or Scott Douglas, or Jason Baldwin, or Rick Huseman. 17_Fan wouldn’t you agree? We’ve had our share of big name racers, Jimmie Johnson, Walker Evans, Brendan Gaughan, Rob MacCachren, and even Robby Gordon (albeit a long time ago). Each race track has it's own promoter, but with one sanctioning body, CORR.

And the parties!!… are you kidin’ me? Nobody drinks more beer than the people from Wisconsin and Upper Michigan. Last years party at Fall Crandon Race on Saturday night with a live concert and huge fireworks display was 2nd to none. They could have done a lot of filming for “GIRLS GONE WILD” if you know what I mean. It was insane!!! You have to see it to believe it.

Can your dezert racing equipment handle a 15 minute beating? I would hope so. Heck, your pre-runners probably get more racing time in a weekend then our race trucks get in a whole season. I’m surprised more of you’s don’t come over here and mop up on us.

And we don’t just race in the “mud of Wisconsin”. Our series has also raced in Bark River – MI, Edmeston – NY, Topeka - KS, Ft. Dodge – Iowa. And for next year we are looking at racing in Belvidere – IL, somewhere in the Detroit – MI area, as well as Minnesota. I think we’re on our way to being “main stream”.

You can learn more at: www.corracing.com, www.crandonoffroad.com, www.upoffroad100.com

That’s my ten cents cause my two cents is free.

Bill Schmitt
Pit Crew – #815 Ross Hoek Motorsports Superlift Ford
www.rosshoek.com


Bill Schmitt
 

btshannon

Well-Known Member
Posts
718
Reaction
358
Here's an idea: If the rumour is true regarding RG and Kevin Harvick is true, why not put the testing dates on film, show it to NBC, and hopefully they can air it during one of those lousy rain delays when the reporters have run out of inane, useless, boring subjects to drone on about. Talk about exposure. Think about it. Maybe follow the story up next year with some Baja footage. All this footage can be shot by one of our friends online and edited by another friend and presented to the network. Kind of like a pilot episode or something like that.

My own taste for the hops is very powerful, and I had no intention of spending a beerless weekend...
 

Gabe Lara

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,003
Reaction
18
Bill,

That is great, and believe me, you have the envy of alot of folks here on the board. Unfortunately alot of us here on the West coast do not have the resources or time to make it to CORR races there back east. Has CORR ever thought of bringing / promoting a race here again in California, or perhaps Nevada or Arizona? I know Estero beach has all of the anemities to have a CORR race in Mex, as well as an excellent resort there on the beach to boot. I'm sure Las Vegas would be a fantastic future venue for lets say, the CORR World Championships. Bright lights, Casinos, and incredible racing.... and a great vacation spot for everyone coming out from the East Coast.

Sorry for the rant, just thinking out loud...

-Gabe
 

pciscott

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,639
Reaction
708
Desert racing and short course racing are separate animals. Short course racing is great and it would be great if CORR could put on a race on the west coast that is as big as Crandon. The racing that I love is desert racing, man verses nature with a little extra horsepower thrown in. I am talking about adventure not just racing. Now we just need to sell it. Keep up the ideas guys.

God Bless America

Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,976
Reaction
170
They did it twice at Glen Helen once as SODA and once as CORR, then they tried it at Vegas. In my opion all three were a flop, personaly I loved them, but they just did not get enough people to make it profitable.
I would like to hope it would work at a less obscure location near LA with more advertising but who knows how many would show up.
 

jimpat

Well-Known Member
Posts
942
Reaction
50
SCORE

When I was a young man in the late 60s and 70s SCORE was for Southern Calif Off Road Entusiasts...
if it means something else now, I do not know.
Jim

when everything is under control, you are going to slow!!!!!
 

billymanfroy

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,654
Reaction
22
This'll be long, so get a snack.

RE: I’m surprised more of you’s don’t come over here and mop up on us.

That's a hoot... I raced all 3 West Coast CORR races in Pro Lite, and, while I did have some bright moments, I was basically lapped traffic in my SCORE-legal truck. (Which it has to remain if I want to race anything else EVER out here again) And that was BEFORE the "cheaper" standardized chassis was made mandatory to "bring down costs". Now the standardized chassis is mandatory in Pro-2 (or it will be next year, I think) I'm not up on the rules like I used to be, but the only classes left are either Pro 4 or Sportsman, correct? Oh, yeah, and you used to be required to get the chassis from a CORR-licensed builder, not your local hardware store or garage. (Don't know if that's still the case.) There are lots of buggy classes, too, but a solid desert car ain't gonna run with some of those light, lowered, high-power short course-only cars. So now we're down to what? Class 9 and, of course, Sportsman. And only 4,000 – 5,000 miles to tow. WOO HOO! Sounds like fun.

Don’t get me wrong - those 3 CORR races were and are still the most exiting, enjoyable, high-falootin, rub-elbows(and fenders)-with-your-heroes races that I've ever had. Partied with (OK, next to) Ragland and went to Walker's private birthday bash in Vegas, lots of honies. It just can't be beat. I've done BITD, and it was tough, huge and exciting, but not as fan-friendly. I like fans. SO DOES EVERYONE WHO MIGHT BE WILLING TO SPONSOR A CAR, A TRUCK, OR A TV SHOW!!! I occasionally do tuff-trucks and in one night get out in front of more people than I do in another 12 “real” off-road races. THAT’S what turns on a potential sponsor. There were a good 5,000 people in the seats at Glen Helen, and the amount of water falling out of the sky was several notches past cats and dogs. Imagine what it would have been like on a nice day. A frigging zoo, and I bet Marty would have figured out a way to keep it going here. He got his fingers burned 3 years in a row by bad weather (and by the Vegas/WOO promoters) and had to give it up. It was bad business - plain and simple. It frigging snowed in Vegas and shut us down. That sucked. The only fans in the stands were crew members it seemed like. Like someone already said, really fun, but a flop financially.

At G.H. in ’97, there was a guy running around spouting off about a new PACE series that was supposed to replace our beloved Mickey Thompson stadium-type racing all over the country. It crashed and burned what, 2 years later? I personally know of at least 3 really bitchin trucks that are now worthless because there's nowhere to run them. They’d be frail Class 1 cars at best now, and they’d get spanked. If you've been to an Xtreme short course race, then you know that is our next biggest possibility. Still, though, it hasn't really taken off yet. It’s only served so far to draw just enough guys to make it interesting, (30-40 vehicles?) while simultaneously diluting the number of available entries for other series. I didn’t see a whole lot of fans at Phoenix, either. I did hear that Havasu and Estero are quite spectacular, however. Keep your fingers crossed.

Now, there was always talk about a West Coast CORR Series, and not a week went by that I didn't ask Marty about it. (or some of my new friends in the CORR office)
There is easily enough interest this side of the Mississippi to do a whole other CORR series, and many of us have been needling Marty about it for years. He and Jim Conner were promising something here and we finally got it. There was a big meeting last winter in LA somewhere, (I didn't go) and many of the big names were there. They pumped everyone up and brought them into a hotel conference room and basically told them, “The racers back East don't have enough money to tow out here, so there will be no West Coast CORR racing. Thanks for coming and don’t forget your literature by the door.”

Bradley, Renezeder (I think), Leduc, Baldwin’s, Evans, and more make the trek from the West coast and do quite well. If guys like Johnny Greaves and Scotty Taylor can't afford it, then what makes you think I can?!?

Billy Manfroy
7 Open Ford Ranger
 
Top