Penalized Racers Alliance

J Caster

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Now, this looks like a valid complaint!

This is why you need a Driver/Rider Review Board for Post-Race Assessments/Rulings!

I'm guessing you didn't read my post so I will quote some of it again-

The way I see it is if this works and Score agrees to the competition review board, your team will move farther into the lead.


This also brings to mind the competition review board.

Why have it in the rules if you are never going to use it? The competition review board would only help us help Score enforce the rules. You were there at the hotel Sunday morning when I was. I'm sure you also heard the comment made that there were no protests made after the race and there would be no CRB. Now that we find out the official results weeks after the race I can see having the CRB that Sunday would have been a waste off time. But how about now? Wouldn't this be the best time to have a CRB? The rules state you must make a protest within a certain amount of time after the race for it to be valid. If the results come out weeks after the race how can we protest another team?



If it were my choice I would set up a CRB with two randomly drawn racers from each class. The CRB would have a penalty system set up (say 1 min for every 5 pings off course) before review and then they would review all the tracker info from every racer. Some of the racers would end up with more penalties and others would not. They would also review the No Data penalties and make a decision on if it looked like the racer was attempting to "fix" the tracker.


So just to make it clear once again, I personally feel Score enforcing it's rules is a good thing. I just want to see those guys who also deviated in other areas of the course get the same penalites as the rest of us. I also think this petition is going to be the best way to get the racers together with Score and work this out.

http://www.gopetition.com/online/29055.html
 

Tipracer

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Okay, you get pulled over for speeding you have a chance that you will get a ticket...DUH
Course deviation penalties applied to ALL racers in the same capacity and fortitude in the same location is fine, Just because "EVERYBODY'S DOING IT" does not make it OK, ask your dad he will tell you the same thing.
No Data is a bum rap, fing your IRC so it dont work is screwed up and the penalty is what you deserve but having one legitimately die is crap...Im sure phil can respond to this and I have no doubt that this will be adressed before the 1K.
Letting SCORE know that you are unhappy with the results sure sounds like sour rapes and just because you were a member of a chase team don't meen squat to them, If you want to conduct open conversation with SCORE you should try and conduct yourselves like concerned participants(read everybody who raced) not just penalized racers...SCORE will no doubt have a few addendums to the rules and things will be spelled out really well as to what is and what is not a legal line.
BTW your petition "We the undersigned...." is front page material---for MO...WAJ
 

Chainguide

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If you want to conduct open conversation with SCORE you should try and conduct yourselves like concerned participants(read everybody who raced) not just penalized racers...

90% of those who raced were penalized and the other 10% are penalized by the * next to this race, so in essence, the name represents the majority.

Perhaps the name thing was done in haste without realizing that it would detract from the real issues. The name can be changed or whatever, it's not that important. What is important though, is that the racers have a voice and if we band together SCORE will have to listen

SCORE will no doubt have a few addendums to the rules and things will be spelled out really well as to what is and what is not a legal line.
Do you believe that? Especially if no one speaks up and they don't feel the need to?

Check out this thread:

"would you take this line?"
http://race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66196 The answer should be clear cut and it obviously isn't....
 

Tipracer

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Really???
The bottom line is if you feel you might get penalized THEN DONT TAKE THE ALT., The tulips need to be VERY clear...This is gonna suck for Sal but if you have ANY questions about different lines then ask Sal, otherwise stay on the course or risk the penalties.
Trust me Sal knows wtf is up, this will be adressed with detail..
 

RFS Motorsports

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The bad thing is that there has not been an official response from SCORE regarding all of the accusations of what has happened. The longer they wait the worse it will be for them. I think it does tarnish their reputation some. I am sure Sal or Paul will eventually respond but the whole thing was handled poorly.
 

Laurie

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The bad thing is that there has not been an official response from SCORE regarding all of the accusations of what has happened. The longer they wait the worse it will be for them. I think it does tarnish their reputation some. I am sure Sal or Paul will eventually respond but the whole thing was handled poorly.

You don't think posting official results is a response? It sounds like a response to me. He's tired of course deviations and he did something about it.
 

manchaman

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You don't think posting official results is a response? It sounds like a response to me. He's tired of course deviations and he did something about it.

If that's how SCORE wants to run their business, so be it. Any other business would be run into the ground with this lack of communication and explanation of policies. To start enforcing policies that have been in the rule book for years just out of the blue is bad in my opinion. The participants deserve some explanation. Something a simple as,

"Yes, we finally decided to start enforcing course deviations. I know this took a lot of racers by surprise, but we felt it was time to restore some credibility to the sport. All race participants deserve a fair shot at winning and we felt this was the best way to level the playing field. In addition, we face a lot of challenges securing the land we need to continue racing in Baja. The only way to ensure the future of this sport in Baja is to obey and respect the land we've been authorized to use. Race participants who choose to deviate on the course often use land we have not been authorized to use, further threatening our ability to continue racing in Baja. It's time we all share this responsibility."

See how easy that was? It's all warm and fuzzy and even if it's total B.S. at least we're being spoken to. It's insulting for SCORE to accept our money, blindside us with enforcing rules (after decades of ignoring them) and not providing some explanation. It takes 30 minutes to formulate a press release. Hell, they put out that stupid response to Robby Gordon within a matter of minutes. Is he the only one deserving of a response?
 

rickf

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If that's how SCORE wants to run their business, so be it. Any other business would be run into the ground with this lack of communication and explanation of policies.

I'm not a SCORE defender but they did publish a rule book and specfic race instructions.

I will agree that the tracker issue sucks! For me, that is the most compelling issue.
 

J Caster

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I'm not a SCORE defender but they did publish a rule book and specfic race instructions.

Have you read that rule book? Talk about grey areas! Just read some of the quotes from the rule book that people have already posted.
 

rickf

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Have you read that rule book? Talk about grey areas! Just read some of the quotes from the rule book that people have already posted.

Have done and, like I said, I am NOT a SCORE defender!
I think the rulebook is pretty clear on deviations, though, whether you like the rule as written or not.

GL15 A marked course is that official route designated by and marked with SCORE markings. The marked course must be followed by all vehicle entries during the event. No vehicle entry may deviate from the marked course on either side more than fifty feet (50') from the centerline of the course to pass. The fifty-foot (50') limit may change from event, or from one area to the next in the same event as stated by SCORE. Passing on a marked course is permitted when the deviation is made safely and within the set limit. No short coursing allowed. (Short coursing is defined as deviating from the marked course for other than passing).

Sensitive areas are those that are designated by SCORE or government regulatory agencies. No deviation off the course whatsoever is permitted in designated sensitive area. Special markings may be used by SCORE in sensitive areas.

Open running areas are those designated by SCORE where one or more routes may be used during the event. Open running will be permitted only within the parameters of the area designated by SCORE. One or more course routes may or may not be marked by SCORE. SCORE will preannounce any controls which may be located within an open running area.

SCORE is not responsible for markings, which are damage or moved. No persons other than SCORE officials are permitted to place, remove or relocate course markings.

All vehicles must drive only in the current direction of the course route or trail.

Failure to abide by these regulations is grounds for disqualification, fine, suspension, and/or penalty determined at the discretion of the Race Director.


I really think the tracker issue is the most 'gray area' issue and one that there is the most consensus about.
 

DirtDogs

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Have done and, like I said, I am NOT a SCORE defender!
I think the rulebook is pretty clear on deviations, though, whether you like the rule as written or not.

GL15 A marked course is that official route designated by and marked with SCORE markings. The marked course must be followed by all vehicle entries during the event. No vehicle entry may deviate from the marked course on either side more than fifty feet (50') from the centerline of the course to pass. The fifty-foot (50') limit may change from event, or from one area to the next in the same event as stated by SCORE. Passing on a marked course is permitted when the deviation is made safely and within the set limit. No short coursing allowed. (Short coursing is defined as deviating from the marked course for other than passing).

Sensitive areas are those that are designated by SCORE or government regulatory agencies. No deviation off the course whatsoever is permitted in designated sensitive area. Special markings may be used by SCORE in sensitive areas.

Open running areas are those designated by SCORE where one or more routes may be used during the event. Open running will be permitted only within the parameters of the area designated by SCORE. One or more course routes may or may not be marked by SCORE. SCORE will preannounce any controls which may be located within an open running area.

SCORE is not responsible for markings, which are damage or moved. No persons other than SCORE officials are permitted to place, remove or relocate course markings.

All vehicles must drive only in the current direction of the course route or trail.

Failure to abide by these regulations is grounds for disqualification, fine, suspension, and/or penalty determined at the discretion of the Race Director.


This part of the Rule Book is the problem. You can go for miles without seeing a course marking, so how do you know if you are on the course. Note there is No reference to a GPS track, so the published GPS track can't be used. SCORE trys to address that the 50' rule may not be in effect, but they never mention it it in the Course notes or Notices. It would be great if they would. Same thing with "sensitve" areas.
 

Chainguide

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Why should you sign this petition?

In light of the recent events that took place at the latest SCORE Baja 500, a group of concerned racers are proposing open dialogue with SCORE.


Why should you sign this petition?

Do you believe racers should have a forum to express their concerns?
Do you believe there needs to be clarification before the next race?
Do you believe sensitive areas should be disclosed prior to the start of the race?
Do you believe there could be a better solution for penalties assessed for faulty trackers supplied by SCORE?
Do you believe penalties should be assessed fairly and equally?
Do you believe that GPS tracks should be available for public viewing?

If you answered yes to any of the above, then you should sign this petition at the link below.
http://www.gopetition.com/online/29055.html

note: this is serious subject matter, so I ask that you please show courtesy and do not dilute this thread by going off topic.
 

Hbomber

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I signed this petition. Anyone that is for equal racing in Baja should do the same.
 

pdailey

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I signed his petition so things can be more clear for the next race. I think the people that broke the rules and got caught should take their slap and move on, but the IRC issues need to be addressed immediately.
 

Vtr_Racing

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Now it looks like the light is starting to come on. It’s a shame that your first post got out before the light came on.
I have said this for YEARS about Score and BITD. I signed the petition for representation of the racers to the sanctioning body. This representation WILL require some time from somebody. So while were all wanting representation, be prepared for some work AFTER the race is over which may cut into your party time or drive time home. Some sort of time will be required. So be careful what you ask for, you might get it. I am for the representation of the class......
 

Tipracer

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wow...28 days after the last post??? what is this a post mortem bump??
I have no doubt that many of the issues discussed will be resolved and guidlines/new rules will be announced at primm.
 

JWK Motorsports

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It's just a name, but is does cover about 90% of us. The main thing is that I doubt anyone is happy about the way things happened and now there will be a larger group to talk to SCORE instead of a couple of random individual phone calls.

I feel we all got penalized.

I'm pretty sure Kory and Harley were pretty stoked..;)
 
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