Pics of my toyota Uniball/Lift spindle Lower Arms

geoff

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Ok, so after my retarded questions of uniballs vs ball joints etc etc, i decided to use a 1" spherical at the *top* of my toyota lower control arm spindle mounts. This provides me with approx 3.5" of lift and the control arms remain totally parallel to the ground.

here is a pic of the lower control arm with misalignment spacers on the spherical bearing




pic of lca at full droop


closeup of full droop


sideview at full droop


topped out






here is a pic of the spindle with the lower hole drilled out to 1" to accept the mounting (welding) of the misalignment spacers


this is the misalignment spacer before welding into place


misalignment tacked into place


lower control arm mounted in place on spindle w/o bolt at full droop


lower control arm mounted in place on spindle w/o bolt at full top



not totally sure what the point is of this pic, but i took it anyway





Now the most important question i have thus far, what do i need to do to weld to the spindle? It is cast steel i believe. All the other stuff was TIG welded with 70S2 rod, and i had planend on welding the spindle in the smae manner. What prep is necessary and do i need to preheat it? Thanks very much!!

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

ntsqd

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Most OE spindles are forged (wide parting line, cast = narrow parting line). Aftermarket spindles tend to be cast rather than forged. Alloys vary. I'm told that US OE's use alloys along the lines of 1045, but I can not confirm that. If you have a mock-up spindle you can send it out for Chemical Analysis. I recently had that done for a part I'm reverse engineering at work. If you need the contact info I can ask the head of Inspection for it, PM me if so. They will partly or completely destroy the spindle in the process, so don't send a good working part. If you've cut off a large chunk, that will work.

As long as you keep the weld heat out of the bearing registers I doubt you need to do much prep or preheat, other than normal that is. Does the weld retain the spacer and take the suspension side loads, or does it only keep the spacer from falling out when everything is unbolted ? I would design for the latter.

TS

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Kritter

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Not sure on the welding but if youare running a torsion which it appears that you are...be sure to weld on a doubler to the backside of the arm, if not you are going to rip the arm.

Kris
"I was thinking the exact same thing about you..."
 

geoff

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hey tom, thanks for the input. I have two spindles niether of which cna be destroyed. What i did see tho was the spindles that AOR built for the fireguys. check them out, it just looks like they cleaned the surface and tig welded the plate on:















as far as the lower misalignment, you are right. its only welded in for convenience. the strength in that section of spindle doesnt depend on that weld at all, it ahs a 5/8" bolt going through it. Thanks tom


"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

geoff

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Hey im definately going to run a torsion, so thanks for the input. what exactly is a doubler, and how can the torsion rip out of the arm? It is 1/4" thick box section. Do you mean weld an additional plate onto the arm where the torsion mounts to it? I can easily do that if its worth it, i just dont see how the torsion could possibly put that much shear on the arm. thanks!

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

orvacian

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I have to agree with Kritter. There is a rediculous amount of force put on the arm just outside of where the torsion socket bolts to the arm. Its because there is so much leverage on it. It could fatigue and eventually break if you didn't double up on the arm there. On 4x4s its the upper arm that has the torsion bar and I have seem many broken arms on those. Reguardless of that, you did some awesome work there!!! I like the simple but effective design and the nice welds.
 

ntsqd

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Since it's for convenience only, I'd use the same filler rod you started with. In the case of most steel forging alloys, the weld metal will pick up enough of the alloying elements to be nearly the same as the base metal.

Something I'm not fond of on the AOR parts is the way the outer tie rod location was raised w/o something to put it in double shear. Single shear like that is a heck of a Moment trying to twist the steering arm. Major fatigue issue there. Have a look at what TC did with their 'Caddy' spindle to see what I'm talking about. The alternative, since the steering arm bolts on, is to make a new arm that starts out with the outer tie rod end in the right place.

Take a look at the stock parts where the torsion socket bolts on. You want, at minimum, an equal wall thickness at each locating hole. I would go thicker and adjust your bolt's shoulder lengths to match. There may be cause to do a thin doubler on each side rather than a thick doubler on one side. If you opt for the pair of thin doublers, they can be the same profile, but don't make them the same width and length. Offset them some so the the weld beads aren't overlapping or on top of each other (doing so makes them a 'cookie cutter' against the base part). The closest they should come is that each side's HAZ overlaps. You probably should carry the doubler(s) down the side of the arm a ways too. Cut a taper on the end (say for the last 1/3 of the length) so you don't create as much of a stress riser as a square end will.


TS

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prospectator

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Geoff,
It looks like your project is coming along great. In you pic you show the uniball bound at full bump (top) but there is a large amount of positive camber on the spindle. If you don't know where the top of the spindle is with respect to the lower you can't accurately determine the uniball angle. It looks like in the pictures your doing it on your bench without it mounted to the truck and without the upper arm mounted. You'll find when you attach the upper arm it will take some of that positive camber out and decrease the angle on the uniball at bump. Hopefully I'm seeing the picture wrong. Keep up the nice work.
 

JasonHutter

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ntsqd, look at the picture a little closer. The tie rod ends are in double sheer. The reason for the tube that you see coming out of the stock piece on the bottom is there to get rid of the tapered whole that the ball joints used to bolt through. We drilled it out and put the tube in that fits to the bolt.

Jason
 

BIG_FAT_LOSER

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I ditto the plating of the rear of the arm, I have bent a few stock arms where the bolt goes through the tortion arm and through the lower arm itself. The arm bottoms against the stop, and the rest of the arm wants to keep going.

Do the spacers need to be welded in?

Are these arms arms longer than stock?

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geoff

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ok ill definately be plating the daylihgts out of the entire arm, but just for reference, the normal arm is 145 thousandths and my arms are 185 thousandths thick. I will probably put a length of strap going down the entire arm tho, just for good luck :)

The arms are 3.5" longer.

The spacers certainly do not need to be welded in, im just doing it for convenience but it cant hurt. I just think theres nothing wrong that can heppen with it being welded in and if anything, the spacer will neever ever have something lik,e half a thousandth that could maybe eventually wear into two thousandths worth of play or something, just want it to be idiot proof.

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

geoff

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Hey Tom

i actually think that the AOR tie rods are in double shear. It looks to me like they have a little tab stick out. While the tab is not extremely thick, it should be thick enough. I really need to stop being so lazy and do some shear analysis... i have no other excuse why i havent yet.

as for the torsion mounting points. Stock is 145 thousandths mine is 185 thousandths. As recommended ill probably put 2 pieces of 1/8" strap on both sides anyway and tig weld it with the way you recommended cutting the ends to elminate a stress riser -- i like that idea thanks. Ill make two really long triangles where the downward slope on oneside and an upward sloping trangle on the other side if that makes any sense.

more advice is always appreciated! thanks guys



"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

geoff

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Thanks for noticing that, i had meant to mention the angles of the uniball but forgot to.

When looking at the TC kit it looks alot flatter than a ball joint kit for this reason. Now most of you who have seen normal long travel toyota kits have seen how the lower arm is at a steep angle then kicked flat at the ball joint location to keep that ball joint flat and make its travel usable.

In this case, becuse its a lift spindle at the same time, the angle of the lower joint does not need to be extreme because the arms are flat. However when i saw this pic i realized i made a mistake:



sooo that looks like its probably about a 15 degree angle. I put my unis at 12 degrees so there may be a slight difference and i may get a little pissed but thats what i get for rushing it. Theres no reason i couldnt do it again. im kinda miffed about this but too late now

The point of those two pictures was to show the location of the misalignments at their respective points in the travel, thats basically it. Ill have to modify the upper mounts and steering mounts this week so that i can begin to fab up the upper arms and finalize the vertical heim mounting. Thanks for all the feedback i really appreciate hearing from all of you knowledgeable guys as im really new to this (just moved to the desert and never heard of desert racing until last year) and havent even gone to a race yet lol

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

Kritter

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From that picture you can see where the lower arm has a doubler on the front...do the same in the rear!

Kris
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Just4Fun

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The picture on the first page isnt double sheer. Double sheer is when there is a plate on top and bottom w/ a uniball or heim between them. With a bolt going through all 3 pieces. Meaning double sheer.
Jason
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JasonHutter

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We were talking about having the tie rod ends being in double sheer. If you look at the tie rod ends, they are. Everything you see in that picture went through about a 1000 miles of racing last year. I would say it is strong enough!
 

ntsqd

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I stand corrected. I could not see that in the first photo.

".... The tie rod ends are in double sheer. ....."

TS

I used swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.
 

geoff

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i ended up taking the stock arms, cutting the sides off of them on the bandsaw and actually using the side as the gusset, i think it will be pretty strong now. its 3 am and i just finished tig welding everythign up. now i just need to find something for the top of the spindle to weld the 3/4" heim into and ill be done.

if anyone wants to see ill post a pic of the new arm with lots and lots of new gusseting and pretty tig welds, otherwise ill wait until the finished product.

Everytime i make more progress on this thing, it makes the total chaos kit look nicer and nicer =) lol. i just dont like the uniball upper. Change that to a vertical Heim and it would be sick!

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

cleartoy

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Geoff, after installing the TC Uniball kit on my 94, id have to agree. I wish the top was vertical heim or uniball. Im still using the stock upper bumpstops, cuz the uniball does not have anymore room to pivot at the point of drop out. The lower does.

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