• Forum membership has its advantages....

On Topic Pit closing times @ BITD

johndjmix

Well-Known Member
At V2r we lost a transmission at pit 4. We were ready to swap it in but the pit closing in less than an hour made that not possible.

The issue is the classes up front that start early have tons of time in the pits, since well...they started early. The classes near the back have very little time compared.

Wondering if anyone else feels this way. Sucks to work so hard, spend so much, and actually have the ability to fix the truck but get dnf'd out because of a pit closing time.

Yes, you pretty much know you aren't going to win your class if you stop for 2 hours in the pit, but you never know....podium is defiantly still possible in the smaller classes.

I'm not knocking BITD in any way here, they do an awesome awesome job! Just wish we had a little more time before pits close for the guys that start later.

--John


Sent from my iPhone using race-deZert mobile app
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand what your asking for. I believe pit closing times are based on the slowest acceptable average speed to each one. Like 25mph and I believe the closing time is calculated based on that speed and your starting time for the close of the pits, and then I think they simplify it by using the last starter and then using their 25 mph average for the actual pit closing time. So if you were not one of the very last classes to start, you actually have an advantage for pit closing times. And not knocking you particularly, but if you want to finish and have to swap a trans, you better get the time closer to 1 hour. This is nothing new and teams have been doing it for decades. Just the way it is. Where did you guys start this last race, how far back?
 

osborne

Well-Known Member
Had this same issue in 2015. Broke a front spindle at mi24. By the time we got chase crew back with the parts we timed out. We fixed the car and would have made up time as the day went on. Only missed check 1 closing time by 30 min but were not allowed to continue. We didnt start till after noon so we had much less time than all others. It is a bummer. As u said, u wont win but making the finish is a big goal of a lot of racers
 

Honda48X

Well-Known Member
John I agree with you. If your basic average is 30 miles per hour and you start later in the day you really have no room for breakdowns. When a TT could limp into a pit ( say 20 mph for five miles) and have plenty of time to complete repairs.
 

osborne

Well-Known Member
Bro gill....in score if u start at 5am and pit closes at say 9am a car starting at 6am has till 10am etc. In bitd no mater what time u start u only have untill a certine time to make each pit, giving earlier classes much more time to do repairs and still make the pit closing time
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
osborne- I understand that, but I believe BITD still uses expected last car off the line to establish pit closing times and then on race day, updates actual closing times based on the start, so the closing time is still based on the slowest (last) car off the line. Yeah, cars that start up front get a bigger cushion based on this, but unless you are the slowest guy and last off the line, everybody that starts in front of the last guy has some cushion built in. If you drop below the minimum average and can't get to the next check point because you're too slow, you time out, even if you were the second truck off the line overall. Everything is based on that last starter.
 

y2kbaja

Well-Known Member
Exactly. Pit closing times are based on 25 mph. So if the first car to start does 25 mph and the last car to start is 3 hours later and does 25 mph the first car will have 3 hours down time whereas the last car will have zero.
 

D Bergstrom

Well-Known Member
It appears to me that closing times are based on when the last vehicle leaves the line. Below are the closing times, this was posted in the quad/vehicle incident thread so I reposted here. First vehicle went off the line at 9:30, and I thought I heard the last went off around 12 or 12:30. So assume 12:30, per the sheet below, that would give you two hours to go 32 miles, pretty much 15 miles an hour. So even if you are dead last, you are still getting your minimum 25 mph overall time to finish. Finish closed at 11 am the next day, so assume 22 hours to finish, (550 miles divided by 25 mph.) If the last car left at 1 pm, you still got your 25 mph minimum speed.

Doug
 

Attachments

ndvalium

Rescue Director
So Closing times have become a hot topic around BITD the last couple weeks. Mostly on the Bikes and Quads side but also on the Car's and Trucks. I can tell you for 20 years BITD pit close times have always been very loose - Teams that have a early failure are routinely helped to get back in and keep going the best we can. We will often hold open a pit when we know someone is doing a fix and can get back in the race. It is always in the promoters interest for you to finish. We want every car to make it through and have those stories to tell at the end of the weekend. Typically on a race like the Vegas to Reno, there are two people that are responsible for making the official close of each pit. as that time gets close, they arrive at the pit and talk with the staff covering that area. If at any time you are close, send a team member to the pit captain and tell them what is going on and then kick it into high gear working. your demonstration of your motivation to keep going will have a direct impact on the decision. If a pit captain sees your team standing there watching while one guy lays under the car to come up with a plan he may not be continuing vs the entire team motivated and making things happen.

I have been a pit closer on more than one occasion- I have even helped turn wrenches on many occassions to get them going. If you are working on it and it will be somewhat close, we are going to get you back in and keep you going. Make sure you communicate with us and we will do our best to keep you racing. There are times when it may not happen. Sometimes we only have permit for certain times to close or impact roads and permits. But the end goal is always to keep you going.
 

SINCLAIR

Member
I think everyone is trying to compare apples to oranges here when trying to compare Score to BITD. The amount of time it takes BITD recovery teams to get to you or get parts to you is the biggest hindrance to getting repairs done and getting a finish. They do a decent job, but when you're broke and can see the pit in the distance and it takes them 2 hours to pull you to the pit, that's absurd.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Simple answer? Don't break, right? If you think down time in Mexico can be 2 hours before help arrives, let alone 5-6 hours, you are misinformed. If you drive fast enough to break your car or wreck your bike, why should you be a finisher beyond the 'We have the best repair team'? In no other racing sport would racers complain about 25mph being the minimum speed to maintain to meet finishing deadlines at check points. Pretty soon, teams are going to just get vehicles across the finish line area after the finished has closed and still claim finishing rights and use it for advertising to show how great the product is... Oh wait, that has already happened, so, who gives a I failed French in school about finishing anyway? "It's not a race, it's just a drive anymore"... Great advertising, right?
 

pontoontodd

Well-Known Member
I would have agreed last year, but this year I thought the pit closing times were very generous. Only about six trucks started behind us, and we had one of the slowest cars on the course, but we were still to pit 3 around 3:30, stopped there for almost an hour, and made it to pit 4 by 5:30. We started at noon so we had 8 hours to get through pit 4, which was 160 miles into the race.
 

Baja Dad

Well-Known Member
Simple answer? Don't break, right? If you think down time in Mexico can be 2 hours before help arrives, let alone 5-6 hours, you are misinformed. If you drive fast enough to break your car or wreck your bike, why should you be a finisher beyond the 'We have the best repair team'? In no other racing sport would racers complain about 25mph being the minimum speed to maintain to meet finishing deadlines at check points. Pretty soon, teams are going to just get vehicles across the finish line area after the finished has closed and still claim finishing rights and use it for advertising to show how great the product is... Oh wait, that has already happened, so, who gives a I failed French in school about finishing anyway? "It's not a race, it's just a drive anymore"... Great advertising, right?

All most Every post you are so negative !!!!
You do offer some good info but most is like listening to Debbie Downer

Try coming up with Helpful info for the sport.....

JM 2cents
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
I did. You just won't follow it. This ain't AYSO soccer where everyone gets to play and they all get a trophy. I realize truth can be hurtful, but that doesn't mean it's not the truth.
 

JBSTEVENS44

Well-Known Member
I agree that pit times and check points and even the finish line should close equally for each person based on when they start the race and not based on when the last vehicle starts. Will this make a huge difference in podium finishes probably not but in regards to overall season points I would think so. It makes zero sense to have the exact same closing time for 1st off the line and last off the line, especially since that gap in time is hours not minutes. In a lot of our racing we end up racing a clock why would that clock not be the same for each person / team?
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
I did. You just won't follow it. This ain't AYSO soccer where everyone gets to play and they all get a trophy. I realize truth can be hurtful, but that doesn't mean it's not the truth.
I agree that pit times and check points and even the finish line should close equally for each person based on when they start the race and not based on when the last vehicle starts. Will this make a huge difference in podium finishes probably not but in regards to overall season points I would think so. It makes zero sense to have the exact same closing time for 1st off the line and last off the line, especially since that gap in time is hours not minutes. In a lot of our racing we end up racing a clock why would that clock not be the same for each person / team?
The solution is not to extend the pit times...but to shorten them for the earlier starters.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
This is correct, except that it requires a lot of work, not to mention probably a lot of hurt feelings at check points. If it is handled electronically, and the vehicle is simply waived off the course at the check point they time out at and the driver is fine with that. Good. It would require all drivers to buy into this at a drivers meeting. They would be told that when a car enters a check point, they have to wait for clearance to continue. If the electronic timing shows them out of time, they are simply given the red flag and pull off the course. Let it be known at the drivers meeting that the check point workers have NOTHING to do with timing and that the computer determines who has fallen off a finishing pace. It will not be argued at the check point and any driver who refuses to follow the rule will be banned for a year with progressive discipline after following offenses. But I doubt that would ever happen. That is why the current set-up is teh way it is.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
And Baja Dad, here is a serious question for you- Who is the most likely to have almost no down time and even with no breakage and a good run, can STILL time out? It should not be a single motorcycle class ever. It's the guys racing stock vehicles like class 11 bugs or stock trucks. If you drive in any other class, you have so much more time advantage to get to the finish line, it is like comparing apples and oranges. And yet, we see stock class bugs and trucks make the finish line. They don't break their cars. Seems pretty basic.
 

CFreeLV

Well-Known Member
If your suggesting each entrant have the same cut off it will never happen. 350 entries would mean 350 different pit closing times. Add that with 14 pits along with volunteers running those pits that now have to keep track of each racers closing time as well as split seconds to stop the vehicle because they are late sounds like a nightmare.

I agree the current setup isn't fair but I'm not sure what the right solution is.

Ndvalium had the best advice. You'd be surprised how many pit captains would stay an extra 20-30 minutes to let you advance past their pit if you go talk to them and explain your desire to continue. Most are racers themselves and want to see you finish!

The solution is not to extend the pit times...but to shorten them for the earlier starters.
 

pontoontodd

Well-Known Member
As my grandpa used to say, "kid, life ain't fair."
To be really "fair", the slowest trucks and buggies would start first so the course wouldn't be rutted out and they'd have more time to finish, more daylight to race in, etc. But that would be very unsafe and ruin the race for the faster classes.
Coming from someone who entered one of the slowest cars in this year's V2R, if you can't average 20mph even with repairs you're not racing.
 
Top