Prerunner Problem now Mini-truck Kids...

sweetdevil

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Check out this months issue of SD Off-road Magazine..

"The recent article you published titled 'ocotillo Wells and the Prerunner Problem' (June 2003) is totally inaccurate and a large part of the problem may seem to have regarding properly identifying and naming the troublemakers here at Ocotillo Wells.
First, there are no true prerunner vehicles operating in or around Ocotillo Wellos. It is sad to blame the true prerunner people for major problems here in Ocotillo Wells. Prerunners do practice down at Plaster City and south to Ocotiilo. Real desert off roaders know what a pre runner truck is and that aprerunner truck costs well over $50,000 to build, as compated to kids who stick a few hundred dollars of plasic fenders on their trucks and think that they are offroaders.
The actual problem people are those teenager who are not off-roaders, who drive mini trucks with fiberglass fender panels so as to pretend to be offroaders. We call them the "mini truck kids." Again, not to assign blame to every kid with a mini truck, but the vast majority of these mini truck kids are the culprits.
Now about the speeders endangering lives of children, campers and otehr riders in the State Park. Your last article incorrectly calls the "mini truck kids" prerunners. Those idiots endangering the lives of other park users are mini truck kids, not prerunners. A park ranger even came to our store a few weeks ago and took pictures of a plain mini truck owned by an elderly couple that never ride in the park. My wife asked what was going on and the ranger told my wife that they were taking pictures of all prerunner trucks for a file to identify troublemakers."
- Fred R. Gramcko, owner, split mountain park.



PLEASE GO READ THIS ENTIRE ARTICLE... THIS IS ONLY A FEW PEICES OF IT.
actually... don't... come borrow mine. I wouldn't spend any money on a magazine that would allow people to portray this sport/hobby/pasttime so negatively!!!

Throughout the entire article, the term "crazy or idiot mini truck kid" is used. This is another one of the most negative things I have seen.

When Khris posted in this forum, he was just asking everyone to be a little more cautious. The article that Fred sent to Offroad Mag is just ridiculous. Obviously he didn't read the thread on here about our use of the word 'prerunner.'

I'm looking forward to my next trip to Ocotillo Wells, I'm sure I won't be harrassed by Rangers at all... maybe I should buy a full size truck or ditch the 'plastic fenders'

I'll be sure to NOT buy beer/gas/food from Split Mountain anytime soon either! I'm sure they don't want this crazy mini truck kid be there, since we just to come vandalize their bathrooms or parking lots!

I hate to return the negative comments, but this is really sad!
 

sirhk100

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I guess I'm just confused cause I completely don't see where you're coming from... He lives out there, lives with the problem, is left with the problem and obviously wants to voice his opinion about the problem. Is there something wrong with a forum of voicing your opinion?
 

mattrick8888

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it sounds to me like they dont know what a real prerunner is. if they think the fenders are "plastic" and a real prerunner has to cost over $50,000, they are a bit mislead. i could prob name 10 real 'prerunners' that cost well under the $50,000 mark. i am not sure what they mean by Prerunners do practice down at Plaster City and south to Ocotiilo. They should prob know what they are talking about before they write a letter to a magazine.......
 

sweetdevil

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Khris,

The right answer is "No"

Sorry, I'm not politically correct, but not all opinions need to be public knowledge. example, Snoop Dog doesn't like white people, he has a TV show that puts down white people for an hour. If a white guy were to have a TV show that put down black people for an hour, it would be his opinion, but should not be shared with the world.

Publishing something that BLM obviously reads and is now taking pictures of every truck passing through the area because of, is not cool. Ya, it's his opinion, but it's stupid, and doesn't need to be shared with the offroad racing community and people that can take away our freedom in the desert.
 

mattrick8888

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because next time you go out to ocotillo with your new yota you will be classified as a "mini truck kid" with plastic fenders.
 

PLS

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It is hard to blame some one for having such a bad attitude when you read about the amount of damage and trouble being caused in this area. Yes, there is some pretty negative stereotyping going on here, but he does say it isn't every kid in a mini truck or the "real desert people". It seems that the same thing has been said here about many areas. It isn't the people who respect the desert, but the weekend wannabe's that don't care about the results of their actions. I read the article, and while it is extreme, I would probably be taking some of the same actions the folks out there are doing to protect my property and investments if I lived in that area. Maybe I'm just a grumpy old man also.
Pete S.- BOYD RACING
 

sweetdevil

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the article is very extreme. Whether you have a bathroom in a parking lot on the side of the road in yosemite, or ocotillo wells... there is going to be vandalism, some people are just jerks. It's a risk that you take by having your property in any area and owning a business that is in a recreational area where people get drunk and stupid.
 

mattrick8888

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i see you point totaly, and halfway agree with it. i do agree there are some idiot kids out there causeing a problem and making the majority of people look bad. but from what the guy is saying in that letter if you did not spend $50,000 on your truck or do not have a fullsize, you will be classified as a "mini truck kid". i would consider myself a "true offroader" for whatever that means. but now when i go to ocotillo, when i rarely do, the rangers may classify me as a 'mini truck kid' and stereo type me into a group that i am not in.
 

sirhk100

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So we're supposed to hide our problems and ignore them until they escalate to the point where the "officials" step in and fix it for us instead of being pro-active, addressing the problem, and attempting to solve it?

Some of the stuff in there completely blind sided me after reading it for the fact that I didn't know it was happening.

As for the "prerunner" thing, I don't think that was his main point. I personally read it as saying that there's a prodominately younger crowd out there that is screwing [daddy didnt love me] up. He's classifyinc thim as the "mini truck kids" or whatever it was... The statement of "real prerunners are found down in plaster city" I read as him saying that the real prerunners are down in plaster city and Ocotillo prerunning and practicing on Fuds coarses, not in Ocotillo Wells. And, yeah, I HIGHLY doubt he read the prerunner definition thread... I doubt he has a computer, he's a store owner that lives in Ocotillo Wells and deals with his community being trashed weekly through the season. He's saying it how he sees it to let others that don't see it or don't agree with it know... You can reply, write an article, respond, whatever just as easy as he did to mine.

Khris
 

PLS

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$80,000 damage done in just one incidence of "vanadalism". There is no exuse or justification for actions like this. As for pictures being taken of trucks and other items, these were happening before the article was printed. He just wrote about it. Oh well, we all have different perspectives on different issues.
Pete
 

sirhk100

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It's to the point out there where they have to think you're bad first... I know I'll be taken as a "mini truck kid" and hopefully they'll realize I'm not... Guess what, I can guarentee you I'm already in that file as a "mini bike kid" from the incident that a lot of you witnessed boil over into our camp. I've straightened that stuff out and they KNOW my opinion on the entire situation and that ONE ranger in particular. I've talked with his supervisor, filed a complaint, and was told MANY things by his supervisor about him that would make you rooster your head sideways in disbelief...

Matt, did you read the entire article yet? Don't judge on what Rhi posted, it's only a TINY bit of the entire thing and in my opinion the Prerunner vs mini truck term is not what he was trying to get across at all. He was just pointing out the he thought my stereotyping of prerunners was wrong... Read the article... Sherri contacted me and showed me some of the article before print and there's a statement from me at the very end about the article that I wrote vs. his.

Hey Dan, I'm waiting!!!
 

sweetdevil

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If he wants to write an article about vandalism and destruction of property, be my guest.

But don't stereotype the crowd that is my friends, and that crowd that I would fall into. I hang out with about 30 "mini truck kids" and none of us would ever vandalise anyone's property out there. We always clean up after ourselves, and others. But now we're looked at by BLM as punks who are going to cause trouble. We all spend about 20 weekends a year out there, why would we hurt it?

I'll bring the article to the race this weekend. You can all read it out there.
 

mattrick8888

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khris, i will read the entire article if i can get my hands on it. the main thing that i did not like was that i may now be classified into a group of people that i am not in, because i do not have $50,000 to spend on my truck or because i have fiberglass fenders. that was my main point.
 

sirhk100

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Spending 20 weekends a year out there will make you STAND OUT. The rangers will see you all the time and remember you. If you or your group aren't the problem, they'll realize that and leave you alone. You just are gonna have to "earn" that cause they feel it's to that point. The kids and groups they don't see out there weekly and being responsible are the ones that need to worry. If you're not in the wrong, what's your worry? You should go in on your 1st trip out this season and talk to them about this. See where they're coming from. Approach it positively... I talked with them last season after my incident and understand the rangers view, don't COMPLETELY agree but definately understand and see what they're up against. They are seriously there for us, and so is the community. It's just that they don't see us helping them...

Khris
 

mattrick8888

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or the wheelie.
 

sirhk100

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That ranger in particular has pulled me over 2 more times since that day on my bike. Once for doing a double on the side of the wash and the other for wheeling (imagine that) down SF wash while a buggy passed about 100' to the left of me. Trust me... He remembers me!!! I personally think he just wants to impound my bike so he can ride it...
I have yet to get a ticket or anything from him because except the first time I havn't done anything wrong.

I know you will be out there with me, Austin stands out, I stand out (for one ranger), and I know a couple others in the group stand out... They know us. If we act responsible, clean up, and do good. All they're gonna do is come by, see that there's nothing wrong, say what's up and be on their way. After they do this a couple times and realize we're not the ones they're after or Fred wrote about. They're gonna drive by and wave.

Talk to them, they'll tell you what's going on and what they're doing. It's not a conspiracy or top secret project.



Khris
 

Jordan

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The person who wrote this has some of the worst grammar and English I have read in quite some time. To be honest, if I am reading an article on the net or newsprint and I get half way through it and it sounds like someone with no High School Education wrote it I put it down.

What do I think about the prerunner problem? I don’t think that it’s a "prerunner" problem. I feel there are select "troublemakers" in the park that go there often. We all know who these people are. We all know what you should and should not do around the campsites. The "troublemakers" don’t obey the rules of the campgrounds whether it be slowing down when driving through the campgrounds or leaving trash all over the place. These are the same "troublemakers" that trash the public restrooms by let's just say, "Missing" the toilet.

The last time I was in Ocotillo I asked a Park Ranger what complaints they receive by visitors. He told me that 90% of the complaints are from families that have several kids with them asking for people to slow down around campsites and when in the main traffic areas. He then told me the next biggest complaint they get is trash left on campgrounds. These ARE the 2 biggest issues out there as told by the people that deal with it the most. I feel that if people can show a little more respect to the people around them we can help "limit" this problem.

I feel horrible that some of the people I tend to go to Ocotillo with are these "troublemakers". I have spent a lot of time picking up after them at the campgrounds and that sucks when these are people you consider friends. Nobody is perfect and I have been at fault before myself but in the past few years I always try to do my best to make sure to respect our desert. If we all don’t start doing this we are going to lose our deserts...
 

empire231

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thats really well said and it's true. there isn't one group that you could point this at, i'm sure that they think the "bike group" or "quad group" or even those crazy golf cart people are also causing alot of trouble over there. because we are on race-dezert, we them pointing fingers at prerunners. on a mx forum, they probably see them pointing fingers at the bikes and so on.

the problem is respect! some people dont have any. when I say respect, I dont mean bow down to the ranger and let them walk all over you, I mean.. pick up trash, respect fellow desert go-ers and dont try to jump over peoples camp sites or roost their motor home from the berm 15ft away.

some of the stuff that they complain about is the same stuff they dont do anything to help solve. last year out their, we all finished packing up, picked up our trash and some of the trash left around the campsites around us (we thought we were doing something nice for the desert community) and then we went to one of the stores to try and put it in a dumpster or can, and the owner/worker came out yelling&screaming that we cant leave the trash their?? i know there are some dumpsters next to the station, but we were camped 30sec. away from the store and had a train of about 6-8 rv's. + most of the trash was purchased from the store.
 

Jordan

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I see nothing wrong with the Rangers posting more Speed Limit and Campground Rules signs around the main areas. I also see nothing wrong with them policing the people more in those areas for things like underage drinking which is another HUGE issue in Ocotillo.

Ocotillo as with all desert destinations is HUGE! There is so much land out there to explore and offroad on its ridiculous. I know that everyone likes going to the "popular" areas to hangout and chill and that’s fine but just make those hangout spots and not show-off spots. If you think about it the Rangers don't usually have too much of a problem with all the people gathering on Blow Sands or Devil Slide hanging out, they have issues with the people driving 55mph through the campgrounds getting there, underage drinking and trash.

I say if you want to charge the crap out of your truck as fast as you can don’t do it on Shell Reef Expressway do it in the middle of nowhere on the other side of Devils and Blow Sands where typically there is nobody around.

I am not trying to be a party pooper, I like to have a good time myself we just need to do it in better places. Get in that truck you spent thousands building and find some new places to test your skills! (just bring some water so we don’t lose you)
 
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