Pressurized fueling accident (Crickets...)

Bricoop

Well-Known Member
I have a standard 55 gallon drum with an electric pump and a standard gasoline station filling hose..... I pull up next to my race trailer and nearly anyone can fill my truck..... I keep it simple and something that everyone knows how to do..... For whatever reason my 12volt pump produces 10 times the flow that you see at a gas station.... So I just don't see why anyone would need anything else......


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Then I pull my race trailer into a gas station and refill my 55 gallon drums...... Nobody lifts anything..... Nobody spills gas..... My dump can is for 2 stroke for my CR500......

It's my own personal Gulf Oil Station.......
It's the same reason they want to put in as much fuel as possible as quickly as possible. Untimed fueling stops makes sense, but just getting people to wear the right safety gear is already a challenge.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
We are relatively new to the sport as a team. Been racing 2 years and I am not proud of the mistakes we made early on. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. But we are committed to be the best we can be in safety.

I would love to see some training events before races for pit crews. I would for sure require my team to attend. We can always learn more. I would even pay a donation to help fund these trainings. Maybe even have a crew chief class that one person in every team as to complete. Could easily be a online course

another great thing would be to have a swap meet of sorts for safety gear at or before the races. I know a lot of top teams have gear they do not use that the smaller teams could use. We are just now getting our team suited up correctly.

let’s come up with more ways to make the sport safer.

mike
 

Myshot

Member
We are relatively new to the sport as a team. Been racing 2 years and I am not proud of the mistakes we made early on. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. But we are committed to be the best we can be in safety.

I would love to see some training events before races for pit crews. I would for sure require my team to attend. We can always learn more. I would even pay a donation to help fund these trainings. Maybe even have a crew chief class that one person in every team as to complete. Could easily be a online course

another great thing would be to have a swap meet of sorts for safety gear at or before the races. I know a lot of top teams have gear they do not use that the smaller teams could use. We are just now getting our team suited up correctly.

let’s come up with more ways to make the sport safer.

mike
Mike you can not "Train" out of an engineering short fall in the equipment.
In one conversation with Vince I recommended ( and sent him web links) he install rupture disks systems on the PP he said they were too expensive and not needed. Although not the answer to having engineered pressure vessels, it would surely would have avoided any operator.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Myshot,

We have a air compressor in our trailer that does not have a Rupture disc. It simply has a blow off valve and it works. I am not scared of that tank blowing up. That being said I think any added safety feature is nice to have. But to say these systems are no safe unless they have more safety features is not fair or true. The fact is the safety feature was defeated on this failure. You cant keep ignoring that.

And yes education and training can be very valuable and the more someone understands a system the more safe they will be as a user of that system.

In aircraft there are many planes that have specific deign issue and we train to deal with them. So yes you can train around mechanical weakness. My car does not drive itself so I got trained on how to drive it and be safe. 48 years and I have never been in a vehicle accident. My daughter has been in one per year. So I think training and understanding matters.

Mike
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
In my opinion drivers meetings have become a waste of time. They are really just a way to get everyone together so the organization can thank themsleves, sponsors, and others like the BLM. I think 80% of drivers meetings is wasted time talking about stuff that does not matter to the race or the racers.

I remember a few times they had Rookie meetings after the drivers meetings. Veteran racers would talk about some common risk and mistakes that rookies make. Those were good.

Mike
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
OK, again not a engineer. You guys are right Pressure per square inch is just that. just seems like a full tower is going to have more pressure. I guess it does as for each inch of fuel that goes up that increases head pressure. the area around that square inch does not matter. If it did than I would be taking the entire pools weight when I swim to the bottom. LOL but I am only taking the square inch column of water above me.

I stand corrected.

Mike
like fuel psi vs fuel gph, you Can have 1000 psi, through a pin hole, volume/ gph? not gonna be like a 3ft hose
 

MAC56

Well-Known Member
Myshot,

We have a air compressor in our trailer that does not have a Rupture disc. It simply has a blow off valve and it works. I am not scared of that tank blowing up. That being said I think any added safety feature is nice to have. But to say these systems are no safe unless they have more safety features is not fair or true. The fact is the safety feature was defeated on this failure. You cant keep ignoring that.

And yes education and training can be very valuable and the more someone understands a system the more safe they will be as a user of that system.

In aircraft there are many planes that have specific deign issue and we train to deal with them. So yes you can train around mechanical weakness. My car does not drive itself so I got trained on how to drive it and be safe. 48 years and I have never been in a vehicle accident. My daughter has been in one per year. So I think training and understanding matters.

Mike
Would you hook a co2 bottle to your air compressor tamk and open the bottle? Let us know where to send the flowers first.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
Nature of the internet beast but would be cool to get to a place where people could respectfully share insight, experience, and thoughts without defecating on each other for not seeing it the same way...especially with something as important as this. Not like this is a new topic but this is one of those areas where winning an internet swinging fallus argument is less important that identifying and potentially implementing things that can legitimately save someone's life.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
went to f 1 in race re fueling, 94 Austrian gp, Joss the Boss, who can forget that iconic pit fueler on fire pic, ( wish i knew how to share.....rDc???
 

ndvalium

Rescue Director
Had a long and productive conversation with Vince Tuesday afternoon regarding the pressure pro system. He is actively working on a couple additions for all 240 pressure pro systems he has built and sold that will increase the safety factor. These should be in place prior to the next race that would have refueling needs which I believe is the Baja 1000. I think his new modifications will be added redundant systems.

None of which mean anything if people tamper with the devices either accidentally, which appears to be in this case through ignorance of the system, or through intentional bypass and modification.

Several of my team are going to to his facility in November as well and increase our knowledge and education on these tanks and the safety mechanisms in place on them.

As the safety team provider for several racing series, I feel like we have the largest number of bodies available to watch for problems in these.

Everything I have heard about this one indicates it was an accident. But it has spurred more than one person to step forward to me and members of my team and suggest certain teams that should be looked at closely.
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Mac good point. I don’t think I would do that. Haha

I have said that’s the part that makes me most nervous about the PP. the Co2 is unregulated and I am wondering if that PRV could keep up with a run away C02 tank.

the only way the Co2 would be in regulated is if the Coil failed. In this accident they ran the regulator way too high. Maybe the regulator should have be able to go so high? But again the coil could fail.

In theory the current PRV would protect against the coil failing.

Mike
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
Nature of the internet beast but would be cool to get to a place where people could respectfully share insight, experience, and thoughts without defecating on each other for not seeing it the same way...especially with something as important as this. Not like this is a new topic but this is one of those areas where winning an internet swinging fallus argument is less important that identifying and potentially implementing things that can legitimately save someone's life.
where Does one go to air out complaints( legitimate) if the guy who builds an uncertified bomb & sells it to the general public doesn't want to hear it???( the relief valve& cert. issues), seams being an A hole about this subject is fine!( if you can back it up!), niceness sometimes is a waste of time to get attention
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
David

thank you for taking the time to understand, evaluate, and help make improvements. You are a huge value to the sport.

not sure if you saw my idea about a pre race pit safety meeting? Could be a good way to educate teams on many safety related items.

I know are already super busy and do so so much but maybe you have ideas on how we can improve the education side.

Mike
 

michael.gonzalez

Well-Known Member
where Does one go to air out complaints( legitimate) if the guy who builds an uncertified bomb & sells it to the general public doesn't want to hear it???( the relief valve& cert. issues), seams being an A hole about this subject is fine!( if you can back it up!), niceness sometimes is a waste of time to get attention
Consumer Product Safety Commision

But let's not take it to that level, please.
 

DTPMS

Well-Known Member
Dealing with 10-12 gallons of fuel is much more manageable if, god forbid, something happens. I have seen 15 issues with fuel towers at least in the last 5 years. I have seen 2 hoses come off and at least 75 gallons of fuel immediately gush out. Stuck redheads on many occasions. 50 gallons of fuel dumped over a chase truck as they tried to bring it down, as their vehicle did not make it to that pit. At the Baja 400 in 2019 watched a team with a pressure pro hit the red head a second time and as the fueler pulled the hose back, there was a pressure spray that went in his eyes.
I feel like i should start pulling the videos of fuel sprays on removal of pressure pros.... But there hasnt been a fire so no big deal right?

Edit=

Here is just one. I can keep going with dozens and dozens of these but id rather not have it all over the internet how dangerous this poop really is. This is a pressure pro, one of the major teams (Brenthel industries) was operating this pit....


 
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