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Pro-lite and Super Buggy Spec Engines?

Pro-Lite Brian

Well-Known Member
i have little knowledge of this subject but why wouldnt a "spec" aluminum fuel injected v8 with MORE power then you need, be WAAAAAY cheaper and just as exciting for the spectators and drivers????? if you were building a class from scratch it would be a NO BRAINER! yes, i realize the guys that run up front dont want this as they now have the advantage and dont want to spend more money and eat all the high dollar engines.........but wouldnt a change be better for all in the long run? please explain where im WAY off here.......
And just how is it cheaper to throw away what the 10th place guy already has for a motor, trans, driveshaft, shifter, fuel cell, and interior tinwork...

only to have to buy a new engine, new transmission, new driveshaft, new interior tinwork, new transmission cooler, new fuel cell, etc...?

You suffer from the same mindset as most midpack guys, you put too much emphasis on the "lack of engine" and too little on the "I need to improve my game so I can compete with the guys that beat me every time out"...

It's funny, my program is a "midpack" type program yet I'm the most vocal person about trying to keep the rules stable... I know for a fact there are guys that had planned on racing TORC at least for the first 3 events, but have now changed their mind due to this rule. Hopefully there are more new guys jumping into the class that are ready to travel with their new V-8 'Lite trucks! This class can't afford to loose any competitors... I've heard that TORC may be putting up a large insurance policy (read $$$,$$$) for the winner of both the <Pro-4wd. class OR Pro-2wd. class> AND the Pro-Light class, so that they can try and get enough people to show up and put on a show.
 

missingp2nut

Active Member
Why does everyone think that the V-8 truck will be faster than the current 4cyl trucks? Because they are rated at about 400+hp? Remember the 4cyl's have been perfected to this point, and with the sticks getting damn near every bit of power to the ground. I bet the v-8 with auto looses a bit through the drivetrain, and think about the testing to get the setup and weight changes that need to be dialed in.

Do you think they would let the v-8 kill the 4cyl's? NO, they will do whatever it takes to make them even with the rest of the 4's. They don't want to loose the current trucks, but just make it more affordable for a new crop of racer to get into this class. Just think about the bragging if your 4 beats the v-8. Although you culd look at it the other way and joke; ya could've had a V-8.

If the V-8's can't keep up, they get help. If they go to fast, they do something to slow them down. Wieght, carb, gears, etc. What about opening up the 4cyl rule a little if they can't keep up with the v-8? Yeah there goes some of your money again. sorry

Steve spent over $20k on his engines this year with just rebuilds. If we convert over to the V-8 and spend $10-11k doing it, I think the extra $9 or 10k left this year would sure help traveling across the country to the other tracks.

That's what this is about. AFFORDABILITY

Sure he or anyone may still only run midpack even doing the v-8 route, and if that's it fine, but it would be a whole lot easier with that extra 10g you didn't have to spend on the motor.

I think I noticed that Ford is putting a 12mo warrenty on their motors, but i'm not sure if that pertains to this crate engine also. Gm, I think might do that to. Need to get the fine print to check that out.

And as far as sound goes, a 400hp v-8 with headers sounds pretty good when running up to 6g rpm, so I really don't think they are that flat sounding. Sure it's not 8-9g like the 4cyls but longevity might win here.
 

todd5c

Well-Known Member
now that its official i can chime in. we ran the ct350 sealed gm crate motor for a reason trying to figure out what will work. we chose the motor we thought might be able to run fairly with the esslingers and kincaids package, we were a bit slower, which is fine because the last thing we wanted was a power advantage. we switched back and forth between a powerglide and 350 stock trans with manual valve bodies to test durability. we run a 31 spline rear end. we wanted to run the feasibly weakest i.e. closest to stock components so when if it became legal, which it has, that we could try to have alot of unanswered durability questions tested.

the top drivers who are still in the class are onboard. i cant say for sure they are switching but they agree something has to be done and have expressed big interest. they can chime in and verify if they choose.

the truck you see in the avatar has ran the above combos all season. all rounds of m4sx/pas. beating justin davis in his pro2 on one night. glen helens series as well. and the highlight for us this season, 3rd at round 14 of torc at the pas.

the extra money that surplus' can be spent on anything. development, extra practice, the list goes on and on. all of that is great but its only good if you can make the whole season, and thats the original intent. a full field all season because you dont have to be anywhere near as concerned or financially tied up in your engine and trans.

this is very similar to the supertruck series at irwindale, compact pickups of varying manufacturers bodies with a v8/at setup. they have had great success with it for years. really close, large fields on a consisitant basis. i know there are variables but it gives you a good comparison.
 

PLcrew

Well-Known Member
now that its official i can chime in. we ran the ct350 sealed gm crate motor for a reason trying to figure out what will work. we chose the motor we thought might be able to run fairly with the esslingers and kincaids package, we were a bit slower, which is fine because the last thing we wanted was a power advantage. we switched back and forth between a powerglide and 350 stock trans with manual valve bodies to test durability. we run a 31 spline rear end. we wanted to run the feasibly weakest i.e. closest to stock components so when if it became legal, which it has, that we could try to have alot of unanswered durability questions tested.

the top drivers who are still in the class are onboard. i cant say for sure they are switching but they agree something has to be done and have expressed big interest. they can chime in and verify if they choose.

the truck you see in the avatar has ran the above combos all season. all rounds of m4sx/pas. beating justin davis in his pro2 on one night. glen helens series as well. and the highlight for us this season, 3rd at round 14 of torc at the pas.

the extra money that surplus' can be spent on anything. development, extra practice, the list goes on and on. all of that is great but its only good if you can make the whole season, and thats the original intent. a full field all season because you dont have to be anywhere near as concerned or financially tied up in your engine and trans.

this is very similar to the supertruck series at irwindale, compact pickups of varying manufacturers bodies with a v8/at setup. they have had great success with it for years. really close, large fields on a consisitant basis. i know there are variables but it gives you a good comparison.


Todd are you now going to run the 2010 TORC series?
 

07FJRog

Well-Known Member
Todd, you forgot to mention, that at round 14, you had to start in the back. they were scared of your V-8 :eek: lol

what I did notice over the 4cyl, was you cleared the table top, and most could not, this makes it a little more exciting to watch.

I was there, great race for your team.

Rog
 

Coastal

Well-Known Member
The last thing that comes to mind about changing to V-8's in the Pro-Light class is that the class' identity lies directly in the sound of a healthy 4-CYLINDER engine! The class will get lost in the shuffle between their Limited 2, Limited 4, and now the "limited" Pro-Light's.
Couldnt agree more, as a fan of the class, that to me is its draw. If every class sounds like a V8, whats the point?
 

T_Cuffaro

Well-Known Member
I would be REALLY surprised if the spec V8 competes with the current 4 bangers.

In real terms, is the cheaper engine going to save a competitive race team a substantial amount of money? Maybe spend 225k instead of 250k per year to race?

My Nissan Pro Lite is for sale, I only spent $6000 this year on that engine and it ran up front.
 

Pro2-54

Bobby Earl
I am not sure re-inventing the wheel is the way to cut costs. Fuel Injected 4 cylinders with a tech mandated and controlled ECM makes more since. I just can't say I am in favor of abandoning the Prolite as a 4 cylinder class.
I think this way of thinking is fine for a sportsman or sportsman lite class, but not Prolite.
I for one will not be changing mine over anytime soon and plan to race it in Prolite next year with Esslinger 4 cylinder power.
Rob
 

HUBBARD

Well-Known Member
After further review i come to a new conclusion. Why race Pro-lite at all? Superlite or Trophylite seems the way to go. You want to race a spec class heres your chance and the pay out is is 3x the amount. You could buy a new truck with the winnings. In Pro-Lite it wont even pay for the motor. So i say leave Pro-Lite alone or make everyone use USAC midget RACE motors ( underline Race meaning other then OEM). If you want to race spec go race spec. An thats all i got to say about that.
 
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