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Proposed 8100/stock full rule changes?

blue dog

Well-Known Member
Blue dog I do not even know who you are nor did I ever put your truck down. You came into this thread with insults towards me saying I complained about your truck not having a windsheild, ac, etc. what Parker race was this?

From how I read the rules 8100 is far from a stock truck limited with rules that only allow an Ibeam truck to dominate unless the Aarm truck cheats.


I believe it was the parker 425 in 07, but whatever. I did not insult you, just stated the facts, i figured you had thicker skin then that.
If i was to build a new to me stock truck, it would be a beamed truck for sure.
Where is Gavin Skilton these days, he hauled the mail in that little honda truck thingy ?

If some changes are needed to get more interest in the class, fine, but do not bastardize the class. It makes me sad what happened to class 8.
 

Samco Fab

Well-Known Member
When we raced the Hummer H2's and H3's, our motors were bone stock down to the exhaust manifolds. No performance mods at all, just open exhaust. Its all about shocks. We got 3 full seasons on one of the LQ9's with nothing but oil and air cleaner changes. We had 8.25" of front wheel travel and 11" in the back. To allow 18" in the rear would make a bunch of trucks obsolete, they would have to do custom fab to just try to keep up. I dont know how that would help.

Blue Dog, the Hummer H1 Alpha that Chad Hall ran is now in the hands of one of our friends Sam Edgar with Tier 1. He has raced a couple of Baja 1000's with it in the last few years.
The yellow H2 we ran for a long time is now in the hands of the Wild Horse Ranch outside of Reno. They ran it in a couple of Vorra races.
The red H2 ran a race at the Australasian rally, and a guy down under purchased it and races it pretty successfully.
Chad Hall still has his silver H3 Alpha that won all the races including the 07, 08 and 09 Baja 1000, we raced it in Group T last year and still use it as a pre runner. It is amazing what 4.4" Foxes and Deavers do to an H3!
Rod Hall still races the blue Stock mini, it will race the Vorra desert races and the Baja 1000.
John Griffin still has the Hummer H1 that was originally built at Rod Hall International in 1999, and the Spirkoff F250. I think he still races both here and there.

One thought that would be interesting, and may help with international entries or new builds is to more closely conform to T2 rules. I am not totally up to date on those rules, but they may allow for a few more things, and limit some others. If you could run a T2 in a production class, there may be guys that build a truck to race in both types of events. It may bring more positive exposure to the class as well, Casey loves rally raid types of races, if T2's were allowed to run in 8100 it may be good.
 

Samco Fab

Well-Known Member
And Jerry, our 8" travel H2's and H3's with a arms ran plenty competitively at all races with all the I beam trucks with unmodified bushings and unmodified ball joints. A arm trucks are plenty competitive with beam trucks. Just run giant shocks and tune them.

One key is skid plates, if you have beefy skids that mount in a lot of places, it helps keep stuff from cracking. The steering is weak and venerable on every single truck out there, change it every race and take care of it.
 
This is the beauty and frustration of Stock Full - learning the nuances of your truck and dealing with them - both in the shop and on the course. Sure you can bolt on a off the shelf Camberg fabricated part and be stronger, thus faster, but that is not the point of stock classes. Leave them alone, including 7100!!!

And Jerry, our 8" travel H2's and H3's with a arms ran plenty competitively at all races with all the I beam trucks with unmodified bushings and unmodified ball joints. A arm trucks are plenty competitive with beam trucks. Just run giant shocks and tune them.

One key is skid plates, if you have beefy skids that mount in a lot of places, it helps keep stuff from cracking. The steering is weak and venerable on every single truck out there, change it every race and take care of it.
 

BRINGTHERUCKUS

Nimrod de PMC
I am not in agreement with this I would say to keep it how it currently reads.



I am open to allowing the A-Arm guys access to this.



I am the concensus with everyone else on this not having issues with them living.



I would be okay with this, but don't really care either way IMO.



As much as having a floater would be awesome I have 110% against this. One of the things where depending on the year you have you have to take some of leave some.



I would like this, but honestly have an indifferent feeling about it.



Would love this option available as our brakes suck and our a down fall to our truck. One master cylinder controlling all fours isnt fun when it goes out.



It sucks working around the bed floor on the truck, but honestly I feel indifferent about this.

If I suggested any changes I would like the use of weld washers to be open for use on all suspension components and ram assist to be able to be used as a safety factor for steering.

The biggest thing I would hate to see if the manufacturers leave the class because of rule changes. Ford is the only one supporting the class now, but I would hate to see them leave the class because of this and that is why I am opposed to any drastic changes. The class is awesome IMO and when the trucks are running well I think it is highly competitive and close racing. The biggest issue is making the trucks live for the entire race and I think the biggest problem for that is the issue between the "loose nut behind the wheel and their use of the gas pedal" (Myself Included) :D

See you guys in October!

-Trent
What Trent said.
 

GregFoutz

Well-Known Member
Ok. My 2 cents on this one....

Lets be blunt... they are not Trophy Trucks. They are not Trophy Trucks for a reason. You have to find a ballance of speed and abuse. You run anything hard enough and you will destroy parts. I have run both stock full trucks for a long time and we ran Stock Mini before that. The parts on the Stock Mini were even more fragile for sure. And that goes for the radius arm bushings too. We found a way to make them live and keep them alive for the Baja 1000 and won that race in 1996 with the technology we had back then. We raced many races hard with Steve and the LA Sherrif team. At any rate we all found a fine ballance in driving the trucks and keeping the trucks alive.

This should be a stock class and I dont think making all of these changes will make it any better. It will for sure drive away the manufacturers once and for all. The only hope is that they will see value in running the stock parts for their technical data exchange programs.

Does it seem cooler to have cool aftermarket parts and heims, sure. Is that what this class is about, no not really.

In this situation I dont think more change is better for sure. you want to go faster I think you should find a truck in a class that matches your desire better and move up to that. Go run a 6100 truck. that will give you the speed you want and in a good built truck will not cost you as much as the full prep and parts bill on a stock full truck in my experience.

But again that is my 2 cents and may not even be worth that much......

God bless.....
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
Last few HDRA races had only 2-4 trucks. Not what I would like to see.
Just want to point out that MORE has had the class for a long time and typically has a decent turn out, I don't remember if it's 1450 or 1500 over there though, it's not labeled 2000 whatever it is.. This is only the 2nd season HDRA and it's the first season for the class in SNORE. I know of 4 trucks specifically being built currently for class 2000 rules and there sure is a lot of talk of the 7S guys and now some of you stock full guys coming over. We built our truck specifically for the class as well and we'd be there this whole season and that was our plans if the USAF hadn't thrown an unexpected wrench in them. The truck isn't going anywhere though and will be a regular in due time once the owner is back living stateside. It's not technically my truck so I don't feel comfy racing it a whole lot without the owner. I will bring it out on occasion though...

Point being, IMO, the 2000 class is still in it's infancy so give it a chance. We spent all of last year building our truck to race this year and well, plans changed litterally on the owners lay over flying out for our first race ever when he got his new orders to move across the world.

BTW, we get asked almost weekly by random people questions and advice on getting into class 2000. Obviously most of those people will likely never take the plunge but the interest level really seems to be there. I hope it's just a matter of time to get the momentum and ball rolling in the class. I really feel the experienced 7S and stock full guys could come out and put a spanking on the class for the most part right now cause those of us with trucks are still learning.
 

johnnyweb

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the comments and thoughts. Please email BITD with them as they need the info to make any thing change or not.

On another note I guess someone else is leaving the class as one of the current competitors in the class has there truck up for sale in the classifieds. Sucks!
 

amrein1743

Well-Known Member
I drive and prep the Fabtech 8111. We bought it from Foutz almost 2 years ago and have really enjoyed racing it.

I really am not certain we should deviate from the current rules. I agree that this is a potential test bed for the auto manufacturers to compete, and changing the rules might make them avoid getting back into desert racing. Sometimes the toughest choice to make is to leave things how they are. It's human nature to want to "fix" things, but maybe it's not really broke.

These trucks go suprisingly fast, and Tim Casey is usually the fastest and his truck is probably more "by-the-book" than anyones.
 

Jimmy8

Well-Known Member
First off, if you don't race Stock Full, Haven't raced it in the past, and aren't planning on doing it in the next 12 months, check your ass out of this thread. Stock Full is a great class but it is currently DEAD. Many reasons for that, I would say Trophylite has a lot to do with it. Bang for the buck, if I had to choose, i'd go Trophylite racing instead of Stock Full. Yes, Ford puts up money, but it has decreased. The problem with the class is this, we have the fastest stock full ever built. Hands Down, No Arguments, It will kick any trucks ass past or present. PERIOD. It has wins, championships, yada yada yada and it has/will/can check out on the field at any race. I'm not being cocky, I'm stating a fact. The problem is that it is a 1979 Ford. The truck is damn near 25 years old and is the fastest truck in its class. Anytime you have a motorsport where a vehicle that old can beat something current you have a problem. I have ideas on how to fix the class, but the peanut gallery who thinks they know all, and doesn't have a dog in the fight and never has or will, come out in force. When you guys are ready to have a constructive conversation on how to rejuvenate a DEAD class and make the 2009 trucks equal to the 1979 trucks, let me know....

 
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johnnyweb

Well-Known Member
First off, if you don't race Stock Full, Haven't raced it in the past, and aren't planning on doing it in the next 12 months, check your ass out of this thread. Stock Full is a great class but it is currently DEAD. Many reasons for that, I would say Trophylite has a lot to do with it. Bang for the buck, if I had to choose, i'd go Trophylite racing instead of Stock Full. Yes, Ford puts up money, but it has decreased. The problem with the class is this, we have the fastest stock full ever built. Hands Down, No Arguments, It will kick any trucks ass past or present. PERIOD. It has wins, championships, yada yada yada and it has/will/can check out on the field at any race. I'm not being cocky, I'm stating a fact. The problem is that it is a 1979 Ford. The truck is damn near 25 years old and is the fastest truck in its class. Anytime you have a motorsport where a vehicle that old can beat something current you have a problem. I have ideas on how to fix the class, but the peanut gallery who thinks they know all, and doesn't have a dog in the fight and never has or will, come out in force. When you guys are ready to have a constructive conversation on how to rejuvenate a DEAD class and make the 2009 trucks equal to the 1979 trucks, let me know....


Well said on the later part anyway you speak the true in this statement. I personally put things in that I am interested in seeing happen on the Ford side of things as well as generally with the trucks. I had hoped it to be a more constructive conversation with the Ford Aarm,Chevy,Dodge,Toyota etc. Seams most are really done with the class and matters not to them if it gets fresh life pumping in to it. I for one would like to stick with the class as I have tons of money in the truck as it stands! However at this point I am seriously considering ripping my truck apart and building to class8 rules as there is no other in between class either at BITD where I love to race at.. IMO anyway

As for the rather bold statement. Ill be your huckleberry!!! LOL
 
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mongo

Well-Known Member
First off, if you don't race Stock Full, Haven't raced it in the past, and aren't planning on doing it in the next 12 months, check your ass out of this thread. Stock Full is a great class but it is currently DEAD. Many reasons for that, I would say Trophylite has a lot to do with it. Bang for the buck, if I had to choose, i'd go Trophylite racing instead of Stock Full. Yes, Ford puts up money, but it has decreased. The problem with the class is this, we have the fastest stock full ever built. Hands Down, No Arguments, It will kick any trucks ass past or present. PERIOD. It has wins, championships, yada yada yada and it has/will/can check out on the field at any race. I'm not being cocky, I'm stating a fact. The problem is that it is a 1979 Ford. The truck is damn near 25 years old and is the fastest truck in its class. Anytime you have a motorsport where a vehicle that old can beat something current you have a problem. I have ideas on how to fix the class, but the peanut gallery who thinks they know all, and doesn't have a dog in the fight and never has or will, come out in force. When you guys are ready to have a constructive conversation on how to rejuvenate a DEAD class and make the 2009 trucks equal to the 1979 trucks, let me know....

Haha this is too funny! The 79s are real fast righ up until they break. The only 79 that won a championship was the one rubio built and manny drove. I got 2nd in points one year in a truck that isn't around anymore since it got wadded up . Any year of a truck will work in the class if you drive to finish. Hummers, long beds,3/4 ton 1/2ton , I beam and even a a-arm 2004 f150 has won championships so that proves anything can win and the class needs to stay as it is.
 
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CRITTER

Well-Known Member
Haha this is too funny! The 79s are real fast righ up until they break. The only 79 that won a championship was the one rubio built and manny drove. I got 2nd in points one year in a truck that isn't around anymore since it got wadded up . Any year of a truck will work in the class if you drive to finish. Hummers, long beds,3/4 ton 1/2ton , I beam and even a a-arm 2004 f150 has won championships so that proves anything can win and the class needs to stay as it is.
Mongo dont forget that truck had stock a-arms, ball joints and stock tie rods that would break driving down the highway! HAHA.
I've race in Ibeam trucks and a-arm trucks. Have replaced all of the components everyone is complaining about but the moral to the story is the way you drive them has alot to do with what your breaking.
 

Jimmy8

Well-Known Member
Jerry,
It has a 460 in it.

Randy, I consider this truck yours as much as anyone's although it has been thru a lot of revisions... Dad built it for Herb Reno and Manny drove it. You got the truck and raced it for a while and sold it to Dunlap. When Dunlap had it Mad Max wadded it up and Rubio rebuilt it from scratch basically and then we bought it from them. Truck has been around the block. Maybe you are right... going through the lineage it was the other '79 that Manny won the championship in. I stand corrected. Did Manny win a SCORE championship in this truck in the late 90's in its first revision?
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
Jerry,
It has a 460 in it.

Randy, I consider this truck yours as much as anyone's although it has been thru a lot of revisions... Dad built it for Herb Reno and Manny drove it. You got the truck and raced it for a while and sold it to Dunlap. When Dunlap had it Mad Max wadded it up and Rubio rebuilt it from scratch basically and then we bought it from them. Truck has been around the block. Maybe you are right... going through the lineage it was the other '79 that Manny won the championship in. I stand corrected. Did Manny win a SCORE championship in this truck in the late 90's in its first revision?
I think the engine and Trans is the only thing left in that truck that is from the poor herbie truck , rest it's soul.
 

Samco Fab

Well-Known Member
I think the engine and Trans is the only thing left in that truck that is from the poor herbie truck , rest it's soul.
Is the Rubio truck that Manny raced not around anymore? That was a nice truck, we really had some good racing with it back in the day. I think it had a 351 Windsor in it right?
 

LFTD Offroad

Active Member
What's with the aggression towards people not involved with the class? I'm very interested in starting to race in the 8100 class and have found this thread quite interesting. I've been going over the rules for the past couple of days and it seems to me that these stock vehicles aren't very stock. The only class that seems to be close to stock is the sportsman class. I'm a newbie so what do I know. I do know that I want to build my truck to compete with you guys and I'm hoping that by the time I get there there is still a 8100 class to race in. What class is available for a truck coming straight from the dealership to the track? That should be a stock class.
 

johnnyweb

Well-Known Member
What's with the aggression towards people not involved with the class? I'm very interested in starting to race in the 8100 class and have found this thread quite interesting. I've been going over the rules for the past couple of days and it seems to me that these stock vehicles aren't very stock. The only class that seems to be close to stock is the sportsman class. I'm a newbie so what do I know. I do know that I want to build my truck to compete with you guys and I'm hoping that by the time I get there there is still a 8100 class to race in. What class is available for a truck coming straight from the dealership to the track? That should be a stock class.
Sportsman class at BITD is open basically run what you brang type class. The trucks have all stock manufactures suspension parts and base truck package design. If they where any more stock they would never finish. 8100 class has some good rules its just some are in the way of having a better day of racing and an easier time prepping in the shop as well as safety. IMO.

What kind of truck where you going to build?

Have you competed prior in offroad racing?

Maybe you want to just buy one that's done sitting in my shop?
 
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