Proposed limit number of riders per moto team @ SCORE events

Chainguide

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I have been racing SCORE off and on since 1974. Back then you were only allowed 2 riders per bike team. For instance for the 1000, it was basically a quick discussion of " OK, I'll do the start and hand it off to you half way and you do the finish" Fast forward to present times and you'll see as many as 6 guys on one team doing the SF 250. I bring this up as I am watching the number of bike entries dwindling drastically over the years. I think back at the 2008 500 we had as many as 150 moto teams entered and at this past Baja 500, we only had around 15 bike teams. I realize that this could be attributed to many factors such as COVID, The Economy, The price of entry fees, The beat up courses, etc. I also think that with the current lesser amount of teams per class, that some teams are thinking why bother when there is only 1 or 2 teams or even no other teams to race against. I hate seeing this decline of entries in the moto classes so I want to float this trial balloon. What if SCORE lowered their entry fees a decent bit, but also limited the amount of teammates per moto entry? For instance the SF 250 would be limited to 2 riders, the Baja 400 & 500 would be limited to 3 riders and the Baja 1000 would be limited to 4 riders. This might accomplish a few things that would be good for the sport. It would encourage more entries as the 6 guys that were on one bike team at the SF 250 may end up forming 3 teams of 2 instead of 1 team of 6. This might also help eliminate the posers with the big wallets who buy teams and claim to be a Baja Champion, but only ride about 20 feet at the start and then hand off to the real racers to do the heavy lifting. If this does initially increase the the amount of entries, then hopefully it will encourage others to race as it becomes a bigger deal again. So what are your thoughts? Comments? Flame on.
 

Honda48X

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Andy, you bring up a really good topic. I have also noticed the decline and agree on limiting the number of riders. Also the Entry fee's have really increased. Would like to see that cost come down. Let's get more riders and bikes in the races.
 

Dustino81

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Completely agreed ! This years entry fee for the 1000 is roughly 30% higher than last years for the Pro Moto classes. I completely understand SCORE is a business and is there to make a profit . But unfortunately I’ve been seeing bike entries dwindle and I feel this could eventually lead the death of bikes with SCORE .
 

JDDurfey

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It has been suggested for a number of years that SCORE would like to see the bikes go away. Maybe this is how they will accomplish that...raise the price to the point that no one has any interest in racing the series.

But at the same time, I believe that SCORE has had the bike rider's safety in mind when starting them at 3am a number of times.

As far as the "10 foot rider of record", that always bothered me. I was involved with a team that did that, but the rider or record did ride a significant part of the race, just not the start. We put our best "dust rider" on at the start. There was a while where the team owner had multiple teams, so he would start one bike, get off and then ride the start on the other for a significant amount of the race.

EDIT: I need to clarify...what bothered me about the "10 foot rider of record" was when the rider of record did not ride a significant part of the race. If he wanted to ride Mike's loop for example, but had to start of finish to maintain rider of record status, I didn't/don't have a problem with that. But I know there were some that would stack a team together and simply ride a few feet and then spectate/chase while the hired guns lifted the weight. When my rider of record did "10 feet" he always rode a significant part of the race elsewhere, or started another bike riding a significant part of the race.
 
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Dustino81

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It has been suggested for a number of years that SCORE would like to see the bikes go away. Maybe this is how they will accomplish that...raise the price to the point that no one has any interest in racing the series.

But at the same time, I believe that SCORE has had the bike rider's safety in mind when starting them at 3am a number of times.

As far as the "10 foot rider of record", that always bothered me. I was involved with a team that did that, but the rider or record did ride a significant part of the race, just not the start. We put our best "dust rider" on at the start. There was a while where the team owner had multiple teams, so he would start one bike, get off and then ride the start on the other for a significant amount of the race.
I’ve heard that rumor as well in regards to seeing bikes go away . I guess my question would be , why would SCORE want that ? Just speculating here
 

cjohnson

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Would restricting team size translate to more teams or less? No guarantee the team or other members would race if restricted. It's generally more difficult to have a bigger team of people in any endeavor so something important must be driving it. Maybe not restrict it but make it easier to have smaller teams. Reducing the entry fee would be a good start.
 

Chainguide

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It has been suggested for a number of years that SCORE would like to see the bikes go away. Maybe this is how they will accomplish that...raise the price to the point that no one has any interest in racing the series.

But at the same time, I believe that SCORE has had the bike rider's safety in mind when starting them at 3am a number of times.

As far as the "10 foot rider of record", that always bothered me. I was involved with a team that did that, but the rider or record did ride a significant part of the race, just not the start. We put our best "dust rider" on at the start. There was a while where the team owner had multiple teams, so he would start one bike, get off and then ride the start on the other for a significant amount of the race.
I have done a bit of volunteer work with SCORE and I do not believe that they want the bikes to vanish. They have expressed that the bikes are Baja racing tradition. You are correct, they do care about the safety of the bikes, hence the early 0: dark :30 start times. This gives a larger gap in front of the TTs and also greatly reduces exposure to unruly spectators and booby-traps at the early populated parts of the course.

Then 10 step rider change is a strategy that many use to fulfill the "driver of record must start or finish rule" in order to earn points. The DOR starts, then hands off to the "talented dust" rider, then shuttles down course somewhere to do his real section. I am ok with that, but a wallet sponsored team would essentially be a man down if the wallet doesn't do any race miles with a rider limit rule.
 

Chainguide

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Would restricting team size translate to more teams or less? No guarantee the team or other members would race if restricted. It's generally more difficult to have a bigger team of people in any endeavor so something important must be driving it. Maybe not restrict it but make it easier to have smaller teams. Reducing the entry fee would be a good start.
I have been part of many multi rider teams. In order to compete to win, it makes sense to add a fresh rider every hundred miles when you are competing with other multi rider teams. The Baja 500 and 1000 are supposed to be tough, grueling endurance races, a marathon, not a friggin relay of sprinters passing the bike as the baton to one to another.
 

JDDurfey

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I know there are a lot of car teams on a tight, limited budget. But the bike racers are even more of the "grass roots", budget racers than the car teams. I hate to see SCORE push them out. I don't think they are doing it intentionally, but by raising the prices significantly the bikes will go race elsewhere.
 

cjohnson

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I have been part of many multi rider teams. In order to compete to win, it makes sense to add a fresh rider every hundred miles when you are competing with other multi rider teams. The Baja 500 and 1000 are supposed to be tough, grueling endurance races, a marathon, not a friggin relay of sprinters passing the bike as the baton to one to another.
Let's make everyone iron man it in that case.
 

mxben

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If I was still racing a bike I would cringe at the amount of general san felipe zone riding there has been lately. F that stuff. Find me some alternate non destroyed lines to link up with the truck course and break up the horror. That would be fun and enticing.
 

JDDurfey

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If there had been an Ironman class back when I was racing in the early 2000s I would have been down, except I couldn't afford an entry fee and Honda Pit fee and hotel cost and fuel cost to Baja on my own, much-less the cost of a chase truck.

I should have Ironmanned in 06 as I ended up riding half the race and three guys split the other half.
 

Chainguide

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If there had been an Ironman class back when I was racing in the early 2000s I would have been down, except I couldn't afford an entry fee and Honda Pit fee and hotel cost and fuel cost to Baja on my own, much-less the cost of a chase truck.

I should have Ironmanned in 06 as I ended up riding half the race and three guys split the other half.
I ironmanned class 21 at the 1979 Baja 500. It was a long day in the saddle.
 

cynicwanderer

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I like BITD fee structure. Ironman is lower than than team and amateur is lower than pro/expert. I think they limit to 3 or 4 riders for teams, depending on event. B500 is about 10 times more expensive than V2R, for me, and probably similar for other classes. BITD usually has good bike turnouts.
 

D Bergstrom

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Years ago, BITD limited pro classes to 2 riders, sportsman classes to 3 riders. They then increased the number of riders to i believe 4 no matter what class. ( Obviously Ironman classes have always been one rider.) One of the reasons from what heard was it was cheaper to split the costs between 4 riders then 2 or 3. I don’t see lowering the amount of riders on a team increasing entries. Your example of 6 guys racing the SF250, would lead to no one racing if you limited the number to 2 riders. Why? Because now those 6 guys need three bikes, have to pay three entry fess, three times the crew and chase trucks, basically three times the cost for those 6 guys. Want to increase entries? I feel lowering the entry fees substantially would be a good start.

Doug
 

TecateRay

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The fact that no “factory” support for Baja race bike exists is also another factor in the reduction of moto team in Baja. Husky, KTM (briefly), Kawasaki and Honda all had long term efforts and supported (pits) not only factory riders but also most riders on their brand.
 

Dustino81

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The fact that no “factory” support for Baja race bike exists is also another factor in the reduction of moto team in Baja. Husky, KTM (briefly), Kawasaki and Honda all had long term efforts and supported (pits) not only factory riders but also most riders on their brand.
IMO I think that plays a small factor into the majority of teams , which are budget guys . There’s still plenty of pit support available Baja pits , Mag 7 , Monkey Business even offers pit services . Honestly I believe it’s the entry fees , this years 1000 is $3700 for pro classes , including Ironman . That’s a lot of money for bike teams/rider(s). I believe if the entry fees were less expensive, there would be a larger bike/atv turnout that could actually generate a larger revenue/profit for SCORE . Don’t misconstrue my post as complaining nor expecting bike guys to pay pennies to race. But when I line up at the green flag , I’m here to RACE against other competitors.
 
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