Racer Licensing

AaronMacomber

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as a newer racer Ill chime in my .01 cents:

License unlimited classes. At a minimum they should have at least a single race in a limited class, OR get a vouch from an established unlimited racer. a Sponsor if you will.
leave limited unlicensed, but at a minimum have some kind of web test as part of the drivers meeting as thats how it seems most are going (again, limited experience, but my last two races were an email drivers video). wouldnt have to be much, just like 4-6 multiple choice answers on the basic safety stuff ( when, WHO you can nerf, etiquette on what and where to move if your car becomes a DNF' qualifier...things like that.
If you fail that pre-test, or do not even do it...well then you dont race, or at least theres a face to face from the organizer about it.
 

MTPyle

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When we were new we were begging for education and information and there was none. The only attempt to help new racers was when SCORE and BITD had a rookie meeting at the end of driver meetings.

That was good and we learned a lot.

Other than that there is zero.

I think the issue is you would get push back from the veterans that would have to take the course. But I bet all of those guys would either learn something or at least get a refresher course.

Even just having episodes of what went wrong with accidents with interviews from the people that have had mad accidents. That alone would help.

Mike
 
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dan200

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USAC is liability and insurance only. They don’t ask any questions or do any education.


Mike
I believe they did all the safety tech at KOH also. (citation needed)

Out of curiosity has anyone reached out to BITD to ask what the license is supposed to do?

ANYONE?
 

Bricoop

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redline

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Licensing (will not be popular):

Should be given a lead time of at least 1 year (ideally 2-3 years) for when it would be instated. For instance: Licensing will take effect as of Jan 1, 2024 if announced by a series today.

Those that can prove their racing history can apply for a "Pro" level 3 license without having to start at the bottom can be grandfathered in. Those that are new to the sport without a license get a free year to earn some mileage and prove their worthyness to be grandfathered into a "Pro" license.

Power and weight of vehicle, and max speed should be the determining factor in where a "beginners" license (Level 1) could be applied for, say anything less than a class 10, C5U, N/A UTV, or Trophy Lite type vehicle would allow a new racer to be granted an entry level racing license. (vehicles that have about a maximum 100 MPH top speed (yes, I know class 10 can go upwards of 110, downhill, on a graded road, with a tail wind))

A minimum of 1500-2000 logged race miles could be used to advance that license to the next step up to a more powerful vehicle, such as 6200, 6100/TT Spec, Class 7, Turbo UTV, etc. This would be known as a Level 2 license.

Another 1500-2000 logged race miles in this level of vehicle could be used to apply for a Level 3 license for unlimited class vehicles.

Licenses could be stripped or suspended at any time based on a variety of safety factors that would have to be covered in a handbook and enforced with strict discipline.
There are plenty of people who have 1000s of miles racing in certain classes that I think still shouldn’t be there.
The hard part is really I think there should be a skill test, problem there is what is the equalizer and qualifications?
 

MTPyle

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There are plenty of people who have 1000s of miles racing in certain classes that I think still shouldn’t be there.
The hard part is really I think there should be a skill test, problem there is what is the equalizer and qualifications?

My opinion is most of the issues are knowing what is OK to do and not. Not understanding the risk people are talking is what I see is the issue.

For sure skills have a part but harder to regulate or measure.

I bet most of the deaths and major accidents were caused by poor decision making not lack of physical skills.

Mike
 
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tapeworm

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My opinion is most of the issues are knowing what is OK to do and not. Not understanding the risk people are talking is what I see is the issue.

For sure skills have a part but harder to regulate or measure.

I bet most of the deaths and major accidents were caused by poor decision making not lack of physical skills.

Mike
For someone that has been around a relatively short amount of time you have a lot of answers
 

MTPyle

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For someone that has been around a relatively short amount of time you have a lot of answers

Ok. Haha. Let me know when I have been around long enough that my opinion matters.

We have been racing for over 4 years. We have raced a ton of races and I am a big fan of the sport. If we are not racing we are watching.

And to not state the obvious the newer people to this sport are the ones with the steepest learning curve and could benefit from some education. So actually I am probably better to discuss this topic than most. We just went thru the process of rookie to being educated in what not to do.

Mike
 

Dave Cole 4454

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Lots of interesting ideas!

As a proponent for years of the need for some type of "proof of competency", in order to participate in the top 3-4 classes in off road racing beyond just the current fiscal ability to buy your way in; I don't think it's likely to never happen for the following reasons:

-Do you think any current promoter would-could significantly penalize, fiscally hurt or ban a new or top tier driver, team or people? A per race penalty yes, but a long term deal no.

-Do you think any promoter wants the hassle of potentially alienating another big money opportunity? Keep in mind other than MM, they do not sell seats other than those in the cars and the potential marketing dollars those drivers-teams and the possible new sponsors they may bring in?

Both new and seasoned drivers have had lapses in judgement; we would hope the seasoned drivers would know better, but sometimes that isn't the case. Years ago an organization had a big $ driver hitting people in various classes for no reason and stated he would continue to do so. The class reps at the CRB voted and he was banned for the season to which the promoter agreed. 1 or 2 races later the driver was racing, reinstated with the promoters blessing and a few class reps were then changed by the promoter.

Do we need a way to judge and prove competence of the drivers in the elite classes: YES. Will the promoters do it proactively: Likely not...

As for online or video classes it sounds very millennial and IMO I couldn't see any way that could be worked around by an enterprising racer (being cynical). IMO the only way to at least ensure a new "Elite Class" racer understands what they are getting into, is to require any occupant that signs up to race an "Elite Class" vehicle, to first race in a lower-"Non Elite Class" at a minimum of 2 events in that sanctioning body with proof of starting those events prior to allowing them to get banded in the elite classes. At least then they'd have a clue of what they were getting into and the process would seem to be easy to monitor.

But then that would require the promoters to engage and enforce a rule, but historically that's always been a challenge...


,
I banned the most prolific chassis manufacturer in Ultra4 for a year for conduct towards other racers at a race.

But I do agree with everything else you are saying.
 

cynicwanderer

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I'm for licensing or AMA class like system. I.e. you have to earn promotion based on points earned in lower classes. you can lose points for violations and conduct (demotions). licenses/promotion/demotions should be transferrable between orgs. I also think pro/expert level classes/licenses should start before amateur classes or be in a separate race/day. i.e. it makes no sense to start amateur motorcycles "before" trophy trucks in long races. it makes it unnecessarily complicated because you have to implement safety time buffers and unsafe when trucks eventually catch slow motos in dust or on technical trails.
 

B.HAGLE

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I'm for licensing or AMA class like system. I.e. you have to earn promotion based on points earned in lower classes. you can lose points for violations and conduct (demotions). licenses/promotion/demotions should be transferrable between orgs. I also think pro/expert level classes/licenses should start before amateur classes or be in a separate race/day. i.e. it makes no sense to start amateur motorcycles "before" trophy trucks in long races. it makes it unnecessarily complicated because you have to implement safety time buffers and unsafe when trucks eventually catch slow motos in dust or on technical trails.

It really should be implemented like the ( fk im gonna say it) the MINT did for bikes. Its the MINT 400 race, you are racing bikes, your course is 230 miles long, enjoy it its going to be fun.

I am a hard-core moto guy and I am all for the challenge but the speeds and mass these TT's carry creates a situation that is dangerous for everyone. I think motorcycle racing in Baja is super under appreciated these days and would love to see the bike counts triple and the factory's get involved again. But they need to be diverted early or have a separate course laid out after the halfway point or some pre determined distance.
 

green787

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The only way racer licensing will work is if there is a governing body passed by state legislation, that also offers like Loyd's of London insurance for catastrophic injuries and actually represents the racers..... Not going to happen herding the off road cats....
 

Bricoop

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The only way racer licensing will work is if there is a governing body passed by state legislation, that also offers like Loyd's of London insurance for catastrophic injuries and actually represents the racers..... Not going to happen herding the off road cats....
Why get the government involved? Let the participating race orgs manage it(possibly through a 3rd party).
 
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MTPyle

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Getting the government involved is the worst idea ever. Tell me one program they do better than private sector.

Crazy to think they can add any value to racing. Mind blown.

Mike
 

J Prich

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It really should be implemented like the ( fk im gonna say it) the MINT did for bikes. Its the MINT 400 race, you are racing bikes, your course is 230 miles long, enjoy it its going to be fun.

I am a hard-core moto guy and I am all for the challenge but the speeds and mass these TT's carry creates a situation that is dangerous for everyone. I think motorcycle racing in Baja is super under appreciated these days and would love to see the bike counts triple and the factory's get involved again. But they need to be diverted early or have a separate course laid out after the halfway point or some pre determined distance.
Not really apples to apples since the Mint is a lap race and there are not many lap races that have motos too. But BITD has basically split them out for Parker on separate weekends yeah? For the Mint, pro motos got 360+ miles in December and March, on their own separate race courses. Only interaction with 4 wheels was in speed zones (1 shared pit and the solar field/bridge). Logistically its a massive challenge and we would not be able to pull it off without the help of MRAN and their awesome folks. But doing so allows us to mitigate safety concerns of having 4 wheeled's mixing with two wheeled's, and allows racers to participate in the same event (as opposed to having to create an entirely separate event just for motos) while not stretching out the racing schedule.

Different animal with loop/point to point races and I'm not sure what the right answer there looks like to be honest but it's always been sketchy mixing motos and car/trucks and would be worth the effort IMO to continue to work through solutions that reduce the risk further.
 

green787

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Getting the government involved is the worst idea ever. Tell me one program they do better than private sector.

Crazy to think they can add any value to racing. Mind blown.

Mike
They register your vehicle and they already issue licenses..... (that's 2 programs)..... You should believe more in America and OUR ability to get things done....!!!!
 
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