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Racing Trax Not Tracking the Mint?

RacingTraX

Well-Known Member
Awesome! Have the bike units been completely tested and proven?
Nope, but they would have been! Once we got word about the Mint’s decision we decided to change direction like developing a 5.6 oz. tracker that ultramarathoner’s can use on cross country treks.
We are testing at the Mint though in preparation for the Silver State race.
7BB84DB1-9985-4538-9A12-1A5322D1FF78.jpeg
 

GunnSlinger

Captain Backpack
Nope, but they would have been! Once we got word about the Mint’s decision we decided to change direction like developing a 5.6 oz. tracker that ultramarathoner’s can use on cross country treks.
We are testing at the Mint though in preparation for the Silver State race.
View attachment 199276
Very cool! im glad to hear that we are continuing to elevate the means of communication and technology in off road racing.
 

pgarfinkle

Well-Known Member
I have no dog in this fight as I decided to not race the Mint this year for a variety of reasons but I do want to point out that when the moto guys were told we would need to have trackers for this race, most racers asked why as this was announced a little late and not typical for a BITD race when we are not on course with the C/T classes. The response we received from the Mint 400 was that safety was one of the main reasons, yet this unit provides less practical safety features than other units available.

Someday I hope we can have a unit that tracks well and provides safety features for all classes. Unit then the competition between these vendors can only provide new and better devices.
 

Vdrive

Active Member
Still waiting to hear from mint guys on why our safety was sold out.
Seems like They are Happy to jump on here and offer camping spots for $800.....

Email sent to BITD expressing concerns:

This race (all heats) is going to look like a war zone with broken cars ect everywhere!!!!
I expect 20 trucks minimum will have mechanical issues and stop during the Sunday race somewhere on or near the coarse, with 3 laps that’s approx 60 opportunities to hit someone....
Sure would be nice knowing that a broken/stopped car is coming up, or better yet what if YOUR the one laying under the truck doing a drive shaft or getting out after a roll over????

Give us a valid reason for changing our tracking/safety system mid season.
Thank You
 

Vdrive

Active Member
On point! I totally agree!

I know that the PTP has totally changed the game of safety for us in 7200 when passing 6100 and class 10 cars etc ... but .. just like everything else, it only works if people are actually using it.

Let’s also not forget that Motorsports Safety Solutions has an increased staff and has eyes on 90% of the course. That coupled with heli’s on stand-by, there is an element that isnt being talked about when talking about overall safety and having to rely on a device that may or may not work.
So they can pick up the person that was run over??? Wtf dude? Just be real they are taking away the biggest safety advancement we have gotten in the last 10 years. Remember Vegas to Reno 2016 miracle no one was killed. Almost 100% avoidable with Racetrax alerts
 

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Frank13

Well-Known Member
RT’s wifi feature is pretty pimp as well. Definitely not fun being stuck out in the desert all day.
 

ndvalium

Rescue Director
Well I can offer a few insights, a few facts and a few opinions that you all can take for what it is worth: (most of which will likely have me in an email chain or an office within a few hours but here goes)

First off, I am a big fan of the RT system. As the Rescue Director for Best in the Desert, I get the opportunity to work closely with them several times a year. The number of features they have put into a unit offer some great information about an incident before we ever commit resources to it such as inversion, g-out, medical alert, or mechanical alert. The tracking is generally fairly accurate and reliable on their side, even if not always on the end viewer side. However all that aside, what I appreciate most is their constant continued investment into their technology. They ask for feedback and make changes. I believe their new bike system once implemented will be exceptional and potentially prevent injuries and save lives in our sport once it is tested, and implemented. If it was my choice based on my experience with different race series, for one system at every event, it would be Racing Trax. Dave and his team are exceptional at what they do.

Make zero mistake in understanding how the Mint 400 operates. It is a event owned by Mad Media who hires BITD to handle the actually racing. Complaining to BITD about these decisions is not going to resolve anything. It isnt their decision. Right, wrong or indifferent, it is a Mad Media decision.

Ok so how was that decision made?

Let me offer some behind the scenes - This isnt Matt and Josh laying on a bed of 100 dollar bills trying to think of the next big thing they can do in order to upgrade their lifestyles.

No, this was a long thought out business decision based attempting to balance a need for tracking, overall safety of the event, the Mint 400 Production values and the cost of the device at the end of the day.

I will be completely honest and upfront, my opinion, along with others, was asked very early on in the decision process. Specifically I was asked on my opinion of the Push to Pass and if it was essential to the safety of racers. As a safety guy, many would think I would be an overwhelming yes it is essential. However that was not my response. The Push to Pass has shown improvement. It has worked in many situations. It has also not worked in occasions and in at least 2 serious cases, it has lessened the awareness of the racer in his situation. As racers, many are becoming reliant on many forms of technology. From GPS guidance, to warning systems, some racers seem to be losing their edge on the battle of them vs the desert. They often drive over their abilities with trust in technology driven devices. This in my opinion is far more dangerous than any electronic do-dad put on a vehicle.

We have a total of 4 races for the Mint 400. Essentially 4 separate events over 2 days. Bikes and Vehicles will never be on the course at the same time for this event. That hazard and fear removed a big concern on the Push to Pass. With the classes broken up the way they are, it will also eliminate many of the traffic concerns. The way the break down is currently, there is no more than 150 vehicles on the course at any time. That is a dramatic chance from last years peak of 400+ on the course essentially at one time last year.

The Mad Media team made the decision for the YB program based on all the parameters they compiled and are going with that system. Does that mean that is the way it is forever? absolutely not. Essentially, Mad Media is the new kids on the block. They have a right and quite frankly a duty to racers, the sport and themselves to explore all the options before them to make a educated decision that effects their events today and in the future.

I have had the opportunity to work closely now with the Martelli brothers and everyone else at Mad Media since they approached Casey several years ago. They do not jeopardize safety and their interest in every aspect of it is actually very refreshing in my opinion. They care more about the overall safety of their event than anyone I have ever had the chance to work with. The Mint 400 is a year long passion for many on their team. Meetings every month with key personnel, constant review after an event, that immediately is part of planning for the next event. It is a constant rotating calendar, and safety is always at the forefront.

I promise you this, we will be meeting within days of the conclusion this years Mint 400 and this is a subject that will be reviewed on what kind of impact it had.
 

pgarfinkle

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Dave @ndvalium . Valuable insight as always. Quick question for you, was the KC66 Safety Foundation ever contacted in regards to the bike race?
 

RacingTraX

Well-Known Member
Just throwing it out there... if we were tracking we’d actually include a race numbers with our location pins... I don’t know, might make locating a husband or son a little easier.
BD778496-7192-4674-8A7D-BD4ED55A0719.png
 

JDDurfey

Well-Known Member
Well I can offer a few insights, a few facts and a few opinions that you all can take for what it is worth: (most of which will likely have me in an email chain or an office within a few hours but here goes)

First off, I am a big fan of the RT system. As the Rescue Director for Best in the Desert, I get the opportunity to work closely with them several times a year. The number of features they have put into a unit offer some great information about an incident before we ever commit resources to it such as inversion, g-out, medical alert, or mechanical alert. The tracking is generally fairly accurate and reliable on their side, even if not always on the end viewer side. However all that aside, what I appreciate most is their constant continued investment into their technology. They ask for feedback and make changes. I believe their new bike system once implemented will be exceptional and potentially prevent injuries and save lives in our sport once it is tested, and implemented. If it was my choice based on my experience with different race series, for one system at every event, it would be Racing Trax. Dave and his team are exceptional at what they do.

Make zero mistake in understanding how the Mint 400 operates. It is a event owned by Mad Media who hires BITD to handle the actually racing. Complaining to BITD about these decisions is not going to resolve anything. It isnt their decision. Right, wrong or indifferent, it is a Mad Media decision.

Ok so how was that decision made?

Let me offer some behind the scenes - This isnt Matt and Josh laying on a bed of 100 dollar bills trying to think of the next big thing they can do in order to upgrade their lifestyles.

No, this was a long thought out business decision based attempting to balance a need for tracking, overall safety of the event, the Mint 400 Production values and the cost of the device at the end of the day.

I will be completely honest and upfront, my opinion, along with others, was asked very early on in the decision process. Specifically I was asked on my opinion of the Push to Pass and if it was essential to the safety of racers. As a safety guy, many would think I would be an overwhelming yes it is essential. However that was not my response. The Push to Pass has shown improvement. It has worked in many situations. It has also not worked in occasions and in at least 2 serious cases, it has lessened the awareness of the racer in his situation. As racers, many are becoming reliant on many forms of technology. From GPS guidance, to warning systems, some racers seem to be losing their edge on the battle of them vs the desert. They often drive over their abilities with trust in technology driven devices. This in my opinion is far more dangerous than any electronic do-dad put on a vehicle.

We have a total of 4 races for the Mint 400. Essentially 4 separate events over 2 days. Bikes and Vehicles will never be on the course at the same time for this event. That hazard and fear removed a big concern on the Push to Pass. With the classes broken up the way they are, it will also eliminate many of the traffic concerns. The way the break down is currently, there is no more than 150 vehicles on the course at any time. That is a dramatic chance from last years peak of 400+ on the course essentially at one time last year.

The Mad Media team made the decision for the YB program based on all the parameters they compiled and are going with that system. Does that mean that is the way it is forever? absolutely not. Essentially, Mad Media is the new kids on the block. They have a right and quite frankly a duty to racers, the sport and themselves to explore all the options before them to make a educated decision that effects their events today and in the future.

I have had the opportunity to work closely now with the Martelli brothers and everyone else at Mad Media since they approached Casey several years ago. They do not jeopardize safety and their interest in every aspect of it is actually very refreshing in my opinion. They care more about the overall safety of their event than anyone I have ever had the chance to work with. The Mint 400 is a year long passion for many on their team. Meetings every month with key personnel, constant review after an event, that immediately is part of planning for the next event. It is a constant rotating calendar, and safety is always at the forefront.

I promise you this, we will be meeting within days of the conclusion this years Mint 400 and this is a subject that will be reviewed on what kind of impact it had.
Dave, I have no "dog in the hunt" but after reading this entire thread I gather that many if not most of the people concerned with the change in tracking devices is not the lack of a "push to pass" button, but the "stopped vehicle alert" This in my opinion is a huge safety issue that can be solved by using the RT tracker. I know it isn't always perfect, but when a racer is driving in blinding dust and there is a broken vehicle on the course it would be great for the driver to know about it. And lets face it, if a race car doesn't ever drive in blinding dust, he will lose every race entered.

The other area that I personally don't understand with the change is, "why not leave well enough alone" I understand there were issues with RT not having enough units last year. However, I have read from more than one source, including you, that RT does everything they can to improve their product and the number of units available. So when you take that into account, it really makes no sense to use a different brand unless there was some monetary compensation for the promoter to do so.

In the end, the race is owned by Mad Media, and if the racers don't like the change, they don't have to race.
 

RacingTraX

Well-Known Member
All joking aside, I do have to admit that up to this point YB is doing a better job at tracking the motorcycles than we ever have, even if there are no race numbers. I’m just excited to launch our new Bike unit at Silver State.
 

Fire1998

Well-Known Member
Dont have time to read thru whole thread. We raced today and spending another $250 for a tracker that does absolutely nothing for race truck is a [email protected]#king joke!!! I spoke with many high up BITD volunteers and they all said the Martellis wanted racingtrax to pay them a substantial fee!! Its all about money for Martellis!! After all the money we spent as a team...we didnt even get Mint 400 tshirts!! We asked and we were told at check in that we could buy them!!! Are you F##king kidding me!! I've raced a bunch of BITD races in the last 13 years and we ALWAYS got T shirts for drivers and co drivers!!! Martellis were to damn cheap to rent a hall at the golden nugget for registration and drivers meeting. We had to sit out there in plastic chairs and freeze our ass off!! I dont think I'll be back to the Mint again after 3 years!!! The martellis also said race is on for at least 5-10 years...completely a lie!! There agreement is only for 3 years! Believe me...these guys will keep jacking up prices to make their money and disappear when agreements end!!! Wish KC was still here!!!
 

Fire1998

Well-Known Member
Oh forgot to add...they told us Wednesday night that spectators were not allowed at TT qualifying. Martellis knew way ahead oh Thursday's qualifying that spectators weren't allowed. They blamed on government shutdown!!! What a joke!!!
 

RacingtraxGeek

Active Member
Thanks for all of the support. Its nice to hear as one of the geeks working on the system that its appreciated to hear when we've made something that's useful to the racer.

We're going to keep making changes and improving as long as we keep being invited to the party. Next up are the new motorcycle specific devices with hazard/pass alert, and also some tracking replay (this race for the vehicles using RacingTrax for additional support). Also some adjustments to hazard detection.

We're watching everything that's going on now. Seems like a bit of a rough race for them. Looks like mapping refresh is on a 4-minute cycle. I thought it was supposed to be 2. I've got 26 race on side-by-side between the two maps right now and seems like we're getting 2 published updates per 1 YB.

Any case, keep safe and hope to track everyone at the next race.
 

steve0we

Well-Known Member
We rolled at Parker, and after the race we got a not from racingtrax showing that we rolled and that we started moving again in 45 seconds or so and that they knew it happened. That sure makes me feel better. We spent a lot of time trying to pass slower cars this weekend at the Mint, and with everything having a blue light and apparently no rear view mirrors it was getting kind of old. Safety first is my main concern!
 
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