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Racing Trax Not Tracking the Mint?

Dave Cole 4454

Well-Known Member
On your site YB charged $165 for KOH. At the Mint they charged $175 for the Saturday race and $250 for the Sunday race plus a processing fee. How is that 6x more money than the $250 we charge?
I have no clue what Mint charges. I charge 165. That is all inclusive of shipping, travel and accommodations for four people, food and labor for the same four. BLM vendor permit and 3% BLM fee. Mounting, harnesses and all event setup and reporting.

Plus 20 units for staff...which is the reason why recovery and ops works well for us...i can see my staff relative to race and spectator locations.

This at a transfer rate of 2 minutes with 2 second granularity of data.

When we talked prices 3 years ago you were no where near that mark. If im wrong i will be the first to admit it.

Do not misconstrue this is purely a money decision. Im responding to a direct question about money.
 

Mxrider99

Well-Known Member
I have no clue what Mint charges. I charge 165. That is all inclusive of shipping, travel and accommodations for four people, food and labor for the same four. BLM vendor permit and 3% BLM fee. Mounting, harnesses and all event setup and reporting.

Plus 20 units for staff...which is the reason why recovery and ops works well for us...i can see my staff relative to race and spectator locations.

This at a transfer rate of 2 minutes with 2 second granularity of data.

When we talked prices 3 years ago you were no where near that mark. If im wrong i will be the first to admit it.

Do not misconstrue this is purely a money decision. Im responding to a direct question about money.
YB failed at this race. The mile markers were so far off it wasn't even funny. Like stated earlier, it was leading people to the wrong locations for medical and retrieval purposes. Not sure whose fault that was, But it sucked, i followed the mile markers called for a few broke down vehicles and they wouldn't be anywhere close. You run races that are generally way slower paced for 80% of it, (the 4400 race) and the YB works fine. There is not as many bad crashes, or big time things with your races. There are spectators almost the entire course that can help with radios. At the KOH 2015 a team i help broke, and i went off where the tracker was showing them as being and they were about a mile away from the spot YB showed them at as well. I know first hand a few teams who race with you at KOH who also do BITD and prefer the RT and how it works, its safety features, and the texting features it allows you to use. Im not trying to knock what you do dave, as you put on a top notch production. But the Racing Trax is way better in this point in time, than YB in almost everyone who actually races and has used boths mind from what ive heard/seen said.
 

dtcevo

Member
I have no clue what Mint charges. I charge 165. That is all inclusive of shipping, travel and accommodations for four people, food and labor for the same four. BLM vendor permit and 3% BLM fee. Mounting, harnesses and all event setup and reporting.

Plus 20 units for staff...which is the reason why recovery and ops works well for us...i can see my staff relative to race and spectator locations.

This at a transfer rate of 2 minutes with 2 second granularity of data.

When we talked prices 3 years ago you were no where near that mark. If im wrong i will be the first to admit it.

Do not misconstrue this is purely a money decision. Im responding to a direct question about money.
Don't you think the extra $90 is worth the added safety to racers in having the "stopped vehicle" feature. To alert a fast moving race truck of someone stopped on course. As a racer I would gladly pay the extra money to have this. I know lots of other racers that have said the same thing. Besides, that added cost would be on the racers, not the organizers. What reason would the Martellis have for choosing a less safe tracking system?

We raced day 1 and we stopped using the YB system half way through the race. Not enough info, unreliable when we did get the info and seemed to refresh. And very long intervals between refresh. Wasted money. Took me back to the olds days of racing when we just paid money and bokted on some tracker because we were forced too. Wasnt ever reliable till RT came on the market.
 

EMS702

Rescue 1
I am probably already saying too much. At one point near end of the day we were waiting for 2 cars to go out on their last lap. Per YB it showed they had one to go. But when they crossed Start finish BITD timing had them finishing 3rd lap and done. We were expecting to stay an extra couple hours out there based on YB info. Fortunately night 1 ended at 2215 instead of midnight. Bonus for the course workers.
 

RacingTraX

Well-Known Member
When we talked prices 3 years ago you were no where near that mark. If im wrong i will be the first to admit it.
You could be right, I don’t really remember, 6x more just seemed a lot higher than what we ever quoted. Either way we have come along way in the last three years... AND I’m still going to be forever grateful to you Dave for pulling me out of the San Felipe desert a few years ago.
 

Soupy

Member
I'll add a data point. So now I've worked the Mint as a volunteer during races where both Racing Trax and YBTracker. In both scenarios I loaded the commercially available software for each solution. I can see how both are equal, and appear to be perfectly good solutions for people who are not at the race course. You are unaware how loosely tied to reality the dots on the screen are tied to the racers. "Loosely consistent with reality" is the terminology I'd use. OR "Accurate to a few minutes". Or "absolutely better then not knowing anything". I think the difference in solutions becomes evident to people who are actively monitoring what is happening on the course real time. I use the app to track race leaders as they near my checkpoint. Or to monitor the level of traffic I should expect. Or as the race wears on, who is left out on the course. I cannot say YBTracker is better. Lots and lots of latency in terms of cars passing in front of me long before YBTracker showed them pass me. I was not in a terrible communication location. MM37, less than a mile from I-15. I had consistent, reliable cell coverage all day. So, performance from that perspective was not better.

I can see some pro's and cons of the method of mounting YBTracker vs. Racing Trax. Racing Trax has a pretty solid mount. Might take a bit longer, more effort to secure to the vehicle. YBTracker looked like a handheld GPS unit. Strapped and / or zip tied to the vehicle. YBTracker goes on faster/ easier. But, might be inclined to work itself loose during a race. I doubt they loose many this way. It's a tracker, eventually it will show up on the map. I know at least one motorcycle racer who lost his backpack. The YBTracker was in the backpack. So after the race, the rider used the app to go back and find his backpack. Score one for YBTracker? Maybe? For the rest of his race after he lost the backpack his position was showing stationary, 0 miles an hour. Not completing the race. had he broke, or became injured, he certainly would have become a statistic of a "ghost rider" to the recovery teams.

I think the determining differentiating factors have to be feature set, and cost. Whatever technology utilized in the background appears to not be absolutely flawless in either solution, might actually be the same. And is likely out of control by either YBTracker or Racing Trax. If reception is poor, or the Internet is going to be slow, there will be update latency. And neither vendor will ever be able to claim control over it or superiority over the competition in that area.

I can easily understand why individual cars my have "issues". I think for some the "issues" are desirable and part of the game plan. Not all racers want to be tracked. Going ghost can be handy at times *wink* *wink*. A "poorly" chosen mount location might be evil genius to one racer and just simply a bad choice to another.

My recommendation (of which I know no one has asked for). Go back to what had been working as good as or better than anything else out there, Racing Trax. As with every aspect of racing, when you are leading edge, pushing boundaries and covering new ground 100% satisfaction is a goal, the the measure of success or failure.
 
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dirtslinger

Well-Known Member
As a racer, I found the tracking very slow, I was tracking our car waiting to get in on the second lap and the refresh rate seemed to be about 5 minutes. It was also hard to find your car or competitors cars with no numbers on the little green boxes. It took me until the next day to figure out that there were actually mile markers on the course, if you zoomed in far enough to be able to touch the little white dot.

Also, was there an emergency button on them? I didn't know anything about an emergency button, as some dudes in a white van and English accents, just zipped tied this thing on my car, and sent us on our way.
 

fishd00d

What A Joke
P.S. The YB does not update as often or as smoothly as the RT does. Unless they are doing something different for this race That’s a fact. Trust me I have tracked every big race for the past couple years and the YB is the worst at timely updates and consistent updates on the race map. It’s very hard to tell who’s in what position because they only update every 5 min or more and jump around a lot.
Hmmmmm if only someone would have known how the tracking was gonna go at the mint using the YB trackers.

Not to mention that their leaderboard was completely useless 90% of the time.

Glad that was a one race a year deal that’s for sure on a tracking standpoint!
 

johnnyweb

Well-Known Member
Martelli bros, let me give you a tip. When you get greedy, you get needy.
KOH has 10 times the event you have. Why? They take care of the racers first, then themselves second. Putting yourself first will make your single event a short one.
you mean the $$$$$$$
 

Az Racer

Member
Anyone know why we're using yellow brick instead of RacingTraX at the Mint? I just looked into yellow brick and it doesn't look like they have any of the safety features that we have with Racing Trax. No pass alert button, no stopped vehicle alert, and now I guess we have to get out and walk to the back of our car where the yellow brick is strapped on if we need to send a medical alert? Serious!?
Seems like we're going backwards. Why the change BITD? Seems we have less safety features now? Are we running this new system for the rest of the season?
Was 100% about money.....Racing Trax did not offer a kick back so they offered to lower the cost. They still didn’t meet the $125 per racer price so they took the cheap route and charged racers the full amount $250. This was The Mint 400.....NICKLE AND DIME RACE! More racers higher fees, more vendors higher fees, more money for the promoters. They squeezed every single dime they could out of this race. So much ASS KISSING proxies making excuses on here. Let’s just hope they learn not to be so greedy and keep their customers interests to heart! It’s hard to screw up the Mint 400 and they didn’t. It was a great event but they sent a strong message to the racers that they don’t care what you think..they are out to make as much money as possible and your going to pay for it because where else are you going to go.
 

Az Racer

Member
One thing that would be cool if it could be done somehow is when the push to pass lights up it’s a certain color if it’s a car in your class, it’s a different color for all other classes. This would help when people don’t want to move because they think it’s someone they are racing they would know by the color or something that it’s not someone in their class so just let them go. In theory anyways.

Bad part is no one would pull over if they know it’s someone in their class haha
Way over thinking it... push to pass does nothing but alert. It’s up to the driver to act or not.
 
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