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Radio channel licenses

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Az7000

Thanks for the clarification, some of this responses were not directed to you. Other said some of those things.

in general I think it’s best to follow the rules. That’s how I am. Especially when if you break the rules it effects others.

I may have overreacted. Haha was just suprised at the responses I got on the subject.

Mike
 

green787

Well-Known Member
PCI assigned the frequencies to my Roadmaster and you can't scroll thru each frequency like some radios... So, I had to share that frequencies with other racers by saying "This is 787 base, HEY is anyone else using this frequency???" and maybe two teams would come back saying yeah unfortunately..... It was great, because if you weren't getting a response from your team, everyone else knew what your problem was.....
 

GBRACER

Well-Known Member
I think there are two different views here the guy that gets a licence and then think he owns that chennel and the guy that just uses that channel, correct me if I am wrong gettign a licence to use a specific freq does not mean that no one esle can use it , they will asign that same freq. in another geographicl area and sometimes if you move into a different area you will overlap, now come race day there are 600 radio's trying to use 30-40 channels ya someone is going to be on your frequency bottom line you don't own that channel you just have a permit to use it and when you cross into mexico to race you have nothing, nada, zip.
Big dollar teams get real pissy about this . Pci trys to spread teams around so there is minimal overlap
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
I am no expert in the laws here but I am pretty sure you technically need a license to use the bands we use. Or you need permission from the license holder. Obviously for the most part nobody cares which is nice but does not make it legal.

it looks like you can license a frequency nationwide. Your right in Mexico all bets are off.

I am not so much worried about what is legal or not. I am trying to figure out how we make sure we can have clear comms when the flag drops.

At LDC one of the other teams that was on our channel broke down. They didn't say who they where when they used the radio so our team thought it was our truck. We were getting ready to go retrieve our broke truck when all of the sudden our truck goes by the pits. Our pit truck was ready to leave and packed up. If our truck would have needed anything we would not have been ready. So for us it almost had a negative effect on our race.

So I just don't want that to happen again. Maybe I am extra sensitive because its my two boys out there and I want to know how they are doing. My wife ask me every 2 minuets if they are still going but when we cant communicate with them its a problem. They had to turn off the radio as it was getting really distracting. I think at LDC there were 2 other teams on our channel.

Again I am not trying to be the Radio police or get behind the laws. Just trying to solve a problem we had during a race. Thats pretty much what we do, we have an issue at a race and we try and solve it before the next race.

Mike
 

ekozy39

Well-Known Member
Doesn't sounds like FCC registration will solve this as I think above someone threw out the 90% of racer channels are not licensed and it does nothing for you in Mexico.
IMO, your best bet and what I have done is check with and register the channel with Rugged and PCI. They can tell you if someone on their system has the same frequency. It's not perfect, but covers 99% of racers and has worked for us. Then you can go through the extra layer with the privacy locks and all that...
 

Dave Cole 4454

Well-Known Member
Mike, thats on you.

I have read numerous times in this thread that you and others dont follow conventional radio protocol.

Chase 4454 to Race 4454

Pause

Go for Race

Send message

If you arent getting a copy and the message is important call it out in the blind. You dont know if they or someone else is getting you.

Your LDC experience would be different if you followed the standard protocol and the other teams on the channel would get the hint as well.

D
 

MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Dave,

Good point and you are absolutly right. We got lazy since we thought we would be the only one on the channel. But thats an excuse and we need to be better on our calls. We pretty much are determined to make every rookie mistake possible. LOL But we don't get to keep using that as an excuse.

Edit- Ironically I am a pilot and use radios the right way all the time. In avaition you have to say who you are on every call. If you dont its a mess as there are many users on the same frequency at the same time. So I know how to do it right, just need to do it right. But its way easier to just blame the other guys on the channel haha.

Mike
 
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PDANK Racing

Well-Known Member
I'm a rugged dealer, and started doing radio programming this past season for shortcourse races. I'm still fresh to this, but here's what I've learned so far. The main issue is that there isn't a "Frequency Master list" for all teams out there, so programming a new channel is a guessing game. Rugged has a list of its customers and the series they run, but any non rugged customer is unknown to them. One way this can be avoided is by the promoter requiring every team to provide a radio freq prior to the event and coordinating the changes between teams with overlap. Adding a tone code to your freq will help, most of the time it fixes overlap.
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
even with a permit there is overlap. cant get pissy cause the others may have it also. If you want your own ya have to go t satellite
 

Honda48X

Well-Known Member
I work in the fire service and you should actually identity who you are calling first then yourself. So it's "Hey you, it's me". Example: Weatherman this is 6122. Weatherman would come back and say "go ahead" and then you would relay the situation. This way you get the attention of the person you are calling and then identify yourself. That way they know who just called them.

At least in the Fire Service the radio frequencies are "owned" by the jurisdiction. We have to get permission from other Departments to program their frequency into our radios.

Scott
 

green787

Well-Known Member
I was told we use the business band of the ham spectrum, and the theory is that businesses that use these frequencies in the cities will not be affected by our use way out in the desert.....
 

OFFRD-JNKIE

Well-Known Member
Dave,

Thanks, good info. I may look into MSATS. We have an iridium go mounted in the truck that we can use with our cell phones for voice if needed but that really only works when stopped, as we don't have it into the comms to use with helmets. But its been really valuable a couple races we had issues when comms would not reach the chase crews.

Mike
The MSATs are amazing and I think that every team should have at least on the race car and one in chase vehicle especially if racing in baja, as they allow you to communicate over hundreds of miles, However as mentioned before they're a bit pricey... $5,000 and up per unit.
 

Lord Green

Well-Known Member
Mike, thats on you.

I have read numerous times in this thread that you and others dont follow conventional radio protocol.

Chase 4454 to Race 4454

Pause

Go for Race

Send message

If you arent getting a copy and the message is important call it out in the blind. You dont know if they or someone else is getting you.

Your LDC experience would be different if you followed the standard protocol and the other teams on the channel would get the hint as well.

D
I work in the fire service and you should actually identity who you are calling first then yourself. So it's "Hey you, it's me". Example: Weatherman this is 6122. Weatherman would come back and say "go ahead" and then you would relay the situation. This way you get the attention of the person you are calling and then identify yourself. That way they know who just called them.

At least in the Fire Service the radio frequencies are "owned" by the jurisdiction. We have to get permission from other Departments to program their frequency into our radios.

Scott
As a pitter, usually at an outlying pit, I would add that your should call out the "from-to" twice. Like "1045 main to 1045 pit 2", pause then say it again. We may not have someone standing at attention by the radio. It's more likely "hey, was that us?" A second call-out would sure be nice.
 

y2kbaja

Well-Known Member
For less distraction on the driver have the race radio only go to the co-driver.
But yeah, all calls to car or pit need to be identified during the initial call.
And stop calling all RM markers you pass. So annoying.
 

Mxrider99

Well-Known Member
I am no expert in the laws here but I am pretty sure you technically need a license to use the bands we use. Or you need permission from the license holder. Obviously for the most part nobody cares which is nice but does not make it legal.

it looks like you can license a frequency nationwide. Your right in Mexico all bets are off.

I am not so much worried about what is legal or not. I am trying to figure out how we make sure we can have clear comms when the flag drops.

At LDC one of the other teams that was on our channel broke down. They didn't say who they where when they used the radio so our team thought it was our truck. We were getting ready to go retrieve our broke truck when all of the sudden our truck goes by the pits. Our pit truck was ready to leave and packed up. If our truck would have needed anything we would not have been ready. So for us it almost had a negative effect on our race.

So I just don't want that to happen again. Maybe I am extra sensitive because its my two boys out there and I want to know how they are doing. My wife ask me every 2 minuets if they are still going but when we cant communicate with them its a problem. They had to turn off the radio as it was getting really distracting. I think at LDC there were 2 other teams on our channel.

Again I am not trying to be the Radio police or get behind the laws. Just trying to solve a problem we had during a race. Thats pretty much what we do, we have an issue at a race and we try and solve it before the next race.

Mike
So you guys dont use your team number on the radio either? Pit crew should of clarified. Also, where they going to go on course to retrieve you? They couldn't of done anything if you were broke... We would of towed your truck out to the hot pits, your pit, Or a major road crossing. Teach your team to not panic and to stay in place until things are confirmed... Especially at a no chase/ Closed race course like the LDC where you have cell phone reception around the entire course. Have someone turn on their location on their iphone, track them that way.

Use the app called "Glympse" and track them that way. Theres a million ways to avoid this issue, not just with radios....
 
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MTPyle

Well-Known Member
Guys we do use our team number, you can even watch the video I posted and my son says 6122 race. The problem was the other team on our channel did not use their number and we got lazy and assumed it was us. Obviously we could have confirmed and thats what we should have done.

The issue is not radio protocol, the real issue is others using frequencies that are not theirs.

I think the best solution is to get PCI and Rugged to share a list. Maybe even have RDC post the list and it can show team names and car numbers. You could look at the list and if that team is not at the race then you should be able to use that frequency.

We need to find a better way. I think having a shared resource would help.

But maybe some teams would not want their frequencies shared on a list?

Mike
 

51rcr

Well-Known Member
Never will avoid actual licensed frequency overlap. Its not yours only especially on a traveling frequency. Your licensed to use it. A general way to keep some control over it. Your just making your self legal. Like DOT and logs. Who does that and who wants to. Sorry cant drive chase truck iam over hours or havent been off driving for 8 hours. Yeah ya should have that also. Also maybe why not everyone is saying hey 6100# ect. Now they have an identity. Kinda like screen names and CB handles instead of real names. Also a reason why they choose to use Business band. Ya wouldnt want to be on the HAM bands. They would not like that and hunt ya down for the hobby.
Another perspective. Some rock race team from the east coast or Texas comes out west they may have the same traveling frequency overlap. If your by a city you may overlap with a local business like a concrete company or parts store. I would bet even in your area if ya leave the radio one you may get oversized load transporters and others come over it. Think of it as traveling and listing to radio stations. theres only so many. Some places you can get 2 on the same channel.
Not to much mention of Sat phones with the push to talk. Simple cheap switch for going between radio and phone. No problems with anyone else. Just rent for races. Use radio for everyone else.
Also a few years ago reading through stuff about radios in Mexico they waved there policies during the races.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
I'm a rugged dealer, and started doing radio programming this past season for shortcourse races. I'm still fresh to this, but here's what I've learned so far. The main issue is that there isn't a "Frequency Master list" for all teams out there, so programming a new channel is a guessing game. Rugged has a list of its customers and the series they run, but any non rugged customer is unknown to them. One way this can be avoided is by the promoter requiring every team to provide a radio freq prior to the event and coordinating the changes between teams with overlap. Adding a tone code to your freq will help, most of the time it fixes overlap.
Using a PL tone does nothing for overlap, it only limits what you will be listening to. Yes, it will make your radio nice and quiet as you will not hear other teams traffic, but you will be stepping on each other without knowing it and not able to conduct yourself properly as you wont hear them. You will hear them when both teams transmit together and neither team will be able to hear the one they do need to hear.
 

johndjmix

Well-Known Member
Whoever said having a licensed frequency will not stop overlap, well....true at the races since everyone just picks a frequency. And true at home, even with our license if I go open on the channel, I still
Occasionally hear someone else broadcast on it.

I actually like that another team uses the same frequency as us. It’s good to have a few more guys out there on the channel so we can help each other relay messages. On the other hand if it was 10 teams on our channel that would be a cluster F.

—john
 
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