RDC Kangaroo Court

Old Truck Guy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Posts
65
RDC Crypto
101
Location
Midwest
So just to clarify, are you saying....

enter alleged violation here

if no one saw it, caught on video, reports it in some form then it's okay to commit the alleged violation? Because you didn't get caught?

Wow. No. That is not what I said, nor meant to imply at all. To begin with, if nobody saw or filmed said event, then nobody got caught doing anything, therefore how in the heck could the unseen event be talked about here in this courtroom? Duh!
I simply replied to a question as to who should be the court jester and recommended the guy with the camera.

Look. I said this in one of my recent posts on this matter, and for the sake of clarity, I'll elaborate here:
ANYBODY who has chased a race car along a race course over the years while driving on a 2 lane highway has made an illegal pass on the opposite side of the road in an effort not to miss the next pit stop. If you claim you have not, you are either lying or just haven't chased enough miles yet.
I know I've done it no less than 5 times over the last 40 years from Baja to Reno, but with radio communication from the lead truck to confirm there were no oncoming cars. In this specific incident, the group of trucks making the pass either did not communicate via radio that the road was not clear, or they did and the guy whom we are all beating down here did not make good use of the radio message sent to him.
Do you really think there were no other similar events that took place during this race? Sure there was. This guy just happened to get caught in the act, and now he is the poster child for all that is bad while chasing a race. If he is who they say he is, he knows he was wrong here. He also knows that he may lose a given amount of business based on the video of him endangering locals on public highways. His experience in this sport speaks for itself. It was a stupid mistake, and we all make them. Because there were alleged injuries as a result of his actions, I am glad that the event was recorded. Conversely if no one got hurt, then it is just a nosy and spiteful thing to do. If the pass was safely executed, I could give a rats ass who did it, where they did it, and when.
If we open this door, whats next? A "concerned citizen" filming a crew member peeing in the bushes as he waits for his race car to arrive? That is considered indecent exposure and a school teacher could loose his career over such an event.
What I'd like to say is this:
I think this whole kangaroo court thing is a fun idea. It doesn't bog down the race thread, and offers a place to share controversial events and/or expose those who disrespect the regions that we all love to race in.
So in some cases, yes. If someone endangers the safety of others while breaking a rule, then by all means expose them. But if the safety of others was not compromised and no advantage was gained by the race car, then let it be. If you want to be the safety sheriff, then get a badge!! LOL!!!
 

Josh 8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Posts
675
RDC Crypto
979
Location
Yucaipa, CA
I hear you. What we have here is really social problem. It’s cancel culture and a juicy video is like tuning the valve from gas to nitro methane.
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Posts
11,734
RDC Crypto
7,189
Location
sandiego
when do we the rdc jury vote?, i vote ' get over it', let this chase guy be.( got a court request/ question for lead jester;
 

Attachments

  • transgender.jpg
    transgender.jpg
    26 KB · Views: 49

JerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
307
RDC Crypto
542
Location
Yucaipa
Wow. No. That is not what I said, nor meant to imply at all. To begin with, if nobody saw or filmed said event, then nobody got caught doing anything, therefore how in the heck could the unseen event be talked about here in this courtroom? Duh!
I simply replied to a question as to who should be the court jester and recommended the guy with the camera.

Look. I said this in one of my recent posts on this matter, and for the sake of clarity, I'll elaborate here:
ANYBODY who has chased a race car along a race course over the years while driving on a 2 lane highway has made an illegal pass on the opposite side of the road in an effort not to miss the next pit stop. If you claim you have not, you are either lying or just haven't chased enough miles yet.
I know I've done it no less than 5 times over the last 40 years from Baja to Reno, but with radio communication from the lead truck to confirm there were no oncoming cars. In this specific incident, the group of trucks making the pass either did not communicate via radio that the road was not clear, or they did and the guy whom we are all beating down here did not make good use of the radio message sent to him.
Do you really think there were no other similar events that took place during this race? Sure there was. This guy just happened to get caught in the act, and now he is the poster child for all that is bad while chasing a race. If he is who they say he is, he knows he was wrong here. He also knows that he may lose a given amount of business based on the video of him endangering locals on public highways. His experience in this sport speaks for itself. It was a stupid mistake, and we all make them. Because there were alleged injuries as a result of his actions, I am glad that the event was recorded. Conversely if no one got hurt, then it is just a nosy and spiteful thing to do. If the pass was safely executed, I could give a rats ass who did it, where they did it, and when.
If we open this door, whats next? A "concerned citizen" filming a crew member peeing in the bushes as he waits for his race car to arrive? That is considered indecent exposure and a school teacher could loose his career over such an event.
What I'd like to say is this:
I think this whole kangaroo court thing is a fun idea. It doesn't bog down the race thread, and offers a place to share controversial events and/or expose those who disrespect the regions that we all love to race in.
So in some cases, yes. If someone endangers the safety of others while breaking a rule, then by all means expose them. But if the safety of others was not compromised and no advantage was gained by the race car, then let it be. If you want to be the safety sheriff, then get a badge!! LOL!!!
Ahh very good then, thanks for clarification. I misunderstood the court jester reference, my bad.

You have some great points here and yes, I think we all agree bad decisions have been and will continue to be made, it's unfortunate but a reality. I know I can recall probably half a dozen times over the years chasing that I only survived, or at least got through unscathed by pure luck.

We just need to do better.
 

Old Truck Guy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Posts
65
RDC Crypto
101
Location
Midwest
I second the motion. SCORE claims he paid restitution to the party affected, and they also banned him from participating in any SCORE events for the rest of the year. IMO, the penalties exceeded the crime. Let's give it a rest.
 

mxben

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Posts
505
Solutions
1
RDC Crypto
642
Location
Ventura County, CA
Wow. No. That is not what I said, nor meant to imply at all. To begin with, if nobody saw or filmed said event, then nobody got caught doing anything, therefore how in the heck could the unseen event be talked about here in this courtroom? Duh!
I simply replied to a question as to who should be the court jester and recommended the guy with the camera.

Look. I said this in one of my recent posts on this matter, and for the sake of clarity, I'll elaborate here:
ANYBODY who has chased a race car along a race course over the years while driving on a 2 lane highway has made an illegal pass on the opposite side of the road in an effort not to miss the next pit stop. If you claim you have not, you are either lying or just haven't chased enough miles yet.
I know I've done it no less than 5 times over the last 40 years from Baja to Reno, but with radio communication from the lead truck to confirm there were no oncoming cars. In this specific incident, the group of trucks making the pass either did not communicate via radio that the road was not clear, or they did and the guy whom we are all beating down here did not make good use of the radio message sent to him.
Do you really think there were no other similar events that took place during this race? Sure there was. This guy just happened to get caught in the act, and now he is the poster child for all that is bad while chasing a race. If he is who they say he is, he knows he was wrong here. He also knows that he may lose a given amount of business based on the video of him endangering locals on public highways. His experience in this sport speaks for itself. It was a stupid mistake, and we all make them. Because there were alleged injuries as a result of his actions, I am glad that the event was recorded. Conversely if no one got hurt, then it is just a nosy and spiteful thing to do. If the pass was safely executed, I could give a rats ass who did it, where they did it, and when.
If we open this door, whats next? A "concerned citizen" filming a crew member peeing in the bushes as he waits for his race car to arrive? That is considered indecent exposure and a school teacher could loose his career over such an event.
What I'd like to say is this:
I think this whole kangaroo court thing is a fun idea. It doesn't bog down the race thread, and offers a place to share controversial events and/or expose those who disrespect the regions that we all love to race in.
So in some cases, yes. If someone endangers the safety of others while breaking a rule, then by all means expose them. But if the safety of others was not compromised and no advantage was gained by the race car, then let it be. If you want to be the safety sheriff, then get a badge!! LOL!!!

Is it really an illegal pass if its not a double yellow on a two lane highway? Safe or unsafe would be the best way to describe it I think. The video I saw as unsafe.

I also passed a few farm worker busses on the way to SQ but we didn't have any close calls.

Passing on the right, or the FAR left is another story.
 

Fifty

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Posts
743
RDC Crypto
396
Location
Ca
Do score rules GPT 1-5 have any relevance to this?
 

JerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
307
RDC Crypto
542
Location
Yucaipa
Nerfing or Abusive driving? You decide....

So there are allegations made by two competitors from the 1000, with physical evidence to back up the claims (damage to at least 2 vehicles #1075 and 1006). The offender has been identified as Herbst truck #264. Per the filing complaint, which may be reviewed in the 2021 Baja 1000, weatherman thread, truck 264 struck both vehicles causing enough damage to affect both vehicles race; stopping for repairs multiple times to make the finish as well as some costly repairs when back at the shop. Truck 264, a TTSpec, was not only not in a "race" with these 2 vehicles, but was clearly behind in their class for some reason, as this reportedly occurred within the first 200 miles of the race, which means #264 had clearly suffered some sort of issue allowing these vehicles, and presumably others, to have passed them. The receiving drivers have spoken here. Per previous races, the 264 has always (as far as I'm aware) released/posted video from inside the vehicle, both front and rear facing. I call for their testimony and video evidence to prove their guilt or innocence.

Was the 1 hour penalty sufficient?

Where is the line drawn between nerfing to pass and abusive driving?

Does the use, or lack thereof, of the P2P tend to show guilt on the striking or receiving vehicle?

If it's been determined to be "abusive" and/or "dangerous" to the occupants of the receiving vehicle, what should the penalty be?

Does multiple vehicles having been hit elevate the penalty?
 

Dave Cole 4454

KING MAKER
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
837
RDC Crypto
5,885
Location
Lake Arrowhead, CA
If the the sun has set...and the lights are lit...you must accquit


Im dead seriousness at night you see a car in your mirrors from miles away.

You should have the sense of situational awareness to know if those lights are gaining on you and even what class and relative speed they are.

Stella is a crutch that you cannot count on. I passed 20 cars at least. The vast majority the stella either didnt work or they ignored.

I got passed by tts and specs and one utv (for a mile) and my stella only went off once. Stella is a false security blanket at best...and an entitlement/excuse at worst.

Im not condoning any excessive nerfing. Im not condoning people getting taken out.

But if you built your car with obvious weaknesses...or if you either through ignorance or arrogance decided to get a knife fight with gun toting spec truck...thats solely on you.

Period.

There must be a racing series for those that need to be coddled and protected.

Offroad racing is not it.
 

JerryB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
307
RDC Crypto
542
Location
Yucaipa
If the the sun has set...and the lights are lit...you must accquit


Im dead seriousness at night you see a car in your mirrors from miles away.

You should have the sense of situational awareness to know if those lights are gaining on you and even what class and relative speed they are.

Stella is a crutch that you cannot count on. I passed 20 cars at least. The vast majority the stella either didnt work or they ignored.

I got passed by tts and specs and one utv (for a mile) and my stella only went off once. Stella is a false security blanket at best...and an entitlement/excuse at worst.

Im not condoning any excessive nerfing. Im not condoning people getting taken out.

But if you built your car with obvious weaknesses...or if you either through ignorance or arrogance decided to get a knife fight with gun toting spec truck...thats solely on you.

Period.

There must be a racing series for those that need to be coddled and protected.

Offroad racing is not it.
The involved racers would have to confirm day/night, however, they said it was around mile 170'ish I believe? So based on the mileage, start time and approx/avg speed I would expect from a 10 car, I'm guessing it was daylight. But CHINOLAS would have to chime in here to confirm. And FWIW, I don't think they are ones to be coddled or need protection.
 

Dave Cole 4454

KING MAKER
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
837
RDC Crypto
5,885
Location
Lake Arrowhead, CA
My assumption is no one expects to be coddled. But it gets my spidy senses going when people talk about financial restitution when racing.

If you take your car to the start line. You AND your team need to be ready to accept the possibility that it OR you arent coming back. That is a fact.

IF the spec truck was indeed reckless thats a whole different realm.

I have raced more than most on this board. I have promoted and officiated more races than almost anyone alive. I have been ultimately responsible for 20+ races a year for over a decade. That is no means a declaration of supreme knowledge. But in the last 15 years I am personally aware of exactly one driver who has driven recklessly with no regard for his peers on multiple occasio s.

There has been momentary lapses in judgment...there has been bone headed moves born out ignornace, arrogance, and lack of patience

But when the 'victim' starts bitching about money, I tend to stop listening.

There is exactly two people responsible in a situation like this and both had equal opportunity to make it better.

If Im driving a UTV, I know to watch the belt Temps. If Im driving a 10 car or any slower car, I am ACUTELY aware and responsible for the results of giving a bigger/faster truck no other alternative than nerfing me.

Daylight makes it harder. But not impossible.
 

AZ7000'

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Posts
3,165
RDC Crypto
2,755
Location
Flagstaff, AZ

CHINOLAS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Posts
498
RDC Crypto
607
Location
Ensenada, Baja, Mexico
Website
www.facebook.com
The involved racers would have to confirm day/night, however, they said it was around mile 170'ish I believe? So based on the mileage, start time and approx/avg speed I would expect from a 10 car, I'm guessing it was daylight. But CHINOLAS would have to chime in here to confirm. And FWIW, I don't think they are ones to be coddled or need protectio
The involved racers would have to confirm day/night, however, they said it was around mile 170'ish I believe? So based on the mileage, start time and approx/avg speed I would expect from a 10 car, I'm guessing it was daylight. But CHINOLAS would have to chime in here to confirm. And FWIW, I don't think they are ones to be coddled or need protection.
It was DAY at RM 170 Colonet wash, a wide enough section to have a damn LAND RUSH start but the guy did not even use the horn, or Stella or take a parallel line to pass, he just slammed us at speed, Dave you know this section it is where that alternate fast line was closed down and fenced to the right.
 
Top