Remember you are being watched at all times!!


Well-Known Member
For those who receive San Diego Off Road Magazine or for those who don't,
there is a large article (2 pages) in there about "Ocotillo Wells and the
Prerunner Problem"

Check out the parts in bold print "There is trail etiquette that is
commonly practiced at Ocotillo Wells but the Prerunner crowd doesn't seem to
know it or care about it!"

It goes on to talk about how the kids in the trucks and their passing small
children on 50's at speed. Along with some chick who passed the writer at a
high rate of speed then crashed her truck.

Just remember "their" eyes are on us all the time. Looking for everything they can use against us. Save the racing for the race track and just have fun safely. I'd like to continue using the deserts for a long time to come and it's not going to be that way if this keeps up.

Off the soapbox.


What A Joke
That article was written by our own sirhk100 (Khris).

Its the same one he posted here a while back....


Well-Known Member
This sort of thing has to go beyond just you and your group. If you see somebody screwing up and you can educate them w/o getting into an altercation, do it. If they're cool they'll realize what they're doing wasn't a good thing. Usually it's lack of knowledge, not a consious decision.

If they're AH's about it we don't need their kind in the Dez. Piss 'em off and maybe they'll quit coming out.


Well-Known Member
Since I don't live in the SD area can you post a link to the article ?? If it is the same story that was posted here a while back then I am at a total loss for words . If someone that posts here sent that in to the paper then they need to be educated themselves !! As if we don't already have enough oposition against us already , now we need to turn on each other ?? I don't really believe that Kris would be that stupid to send something like that in to a newspaper . If so then WOW!!!! ........................ I'm blown away .

Dan Vance


Well-Known Member
First off no, I didn't send that in. The editor read that on here and asked if they could print it. 2nd, I'm not too thrilled with the title they gave it but whateva.

Here it is as I wrote it, looks like they changed tiny parts but the point is definately the same.
Read my first post on the thread... It's long...

Dan, are you saying that my words in that article are wrong and that you have every right to just run around Ocotillo Wells like you own the place with no respect for others out there? If so then I've got absolutely no problem saying you're screwed up and honestly don't belong out there. That wasn't writtin about those that are responsible out there, that was directed towards those that don't have the knowledge or sense to slow down when they are around others out there and in my experiences over the past 18 years it's happening mainly by the kids in the prerunners with lots of money and no sense. It's just a common sense extension of the 15mph within 50 feet of camps law that is in place out there. That wasn't written about Glamis or Barstow cause those areas seem to be different and have a different feel. Glamis is definately crazy and outta control, until you get out in the dunes. Deep in the dunes the riders are a lot like Ocotillo, friendly, wave, helpfull, courteous, etc... Have you even been out in the dunes to realize that or do you just hang at Olds and Comp? Barstow definately has a "race" feel to it and it seems like it's commonly excepted to go ballz out there all the time. I don't go there except on race weekends when that's what I'm expecting and there to see.

Or Dan, are you saying that issues like this shouldn't be brought to everyones attention that is involved for fear that the greenies or off-road opponents will use it to fuel their fire? If that's what you're saying I'll still say you're screwed up because another part of that clearly says that I just think a majority of those prerunners that I'm talking about aren't doing it on purpose, they just don't know and aren't educated. How do you get educated if you're starting out in the sport? It's by reading things like that in the SDOR or on forums like this. Read the thread linked above, I don't see one person on there that disagrees with my feelings. Read where I posted it on, one guy admitted to not knowing anything about it and that it completely makes sense and thanked me for writing and posting it.

Would you be saying the same thing if I wrote a 2 page article on the trash left at Olds, Comp, or Blow Sands after every weekend? Why not? It's the same thing, it's a problem that I see and that needs to be addressed by us. If you go out to these places then this should be a problem to you too. If you're one of the people that run Ocotillo Wells like it's a race coarse you're one of the problems, go to Barstow or Glamis where it's accepted, not Ocotillo. It says it right here copied straight out of it that I was talking about Oco and nowhere else... "There is trail eticate (sp?) that is commonly practiced at Ocotillo Wells (don't know about Glamis, Barstow, or anywhere else) but the Prerunner crowd doesn't seem to know it or care about it!"

If I'm completely wrong and didn't understand your post above please enlighten me cause I don't see why you're "blown away" by what I wrote ending up in print.

If you don't subscribe to SDOR, you should... It's one of the best off-road publications around and covers everything from Desert racing to Glamis to rockcrawling, it definately isn't a San Diego Paper, it's just based outta San Diego. They print up to date articles on what's going on legally to fight to keep our areas open for us, they give race results, classifieds, etc... I've even seen a photo of Dan Vance going big in it!!!


Krittro Campbell
If they are too stupid to know to cruise around kids and bikes...they are probably too stupid to pick up a newspaper...but the people WHO DO read the paper and see that article are not your targeted demographic...unless that is a local teen paper which it does not sound like.

"be brought to everyones attention that is involved"
The prerunner scene is relatively young and very few read the newspaper so I think if anythign you go tthe attention of parents rather then everyone.

I thought your article was good for people who actually go to the desert and knwo how it is, but from the outsider looking in it makes us look bad...which is bad press anyway you look at it.

Wanna fix some punk kid from going too fast in a slow area...go get your exploder and nerf him..."you drive like a racer, how does it feel to be nerfed like one...slow the f&ck down you punkass kid"

If he has respect...he will do it otherwise he is not going to do it regardless if it is in a newspaper article or not.


Well-Known Member
Well, in that case, that paper is in just about every offroad related shop in San Diego county and sitting on the counter in just about every fab shop around here. The title they used and size print they used on the front cover I'm sure is big enough to grab their attention and I could see them picking it up just as a WTF is this then... They'll read it and get pissed at me for my views or read it and maybe it'll click in their head.

Also, those that read that paper will now realize that it's not just them that sees this as wrong and may realize that this is something worth acting on.

I see your point as bad press is bad press but if it's never talked about in the first place will nothing ever come of it? I don't see any of the organized trash pickups ever happening if no one had ever stood up in our community and said out loud that, Hey, there's a problem here and we need to deal with it or at the very least make an impact on it.



I agree with you Khris and think that your article being printed in a local offroad magazine won't bring any harm, only good. You hear too many stories of vehicles driving too fast around crowds and people getting hurt or killed. Chasing down someone, getting in their face, or nerfing them isn't the way to go, its just gonna get them pissed off and have their 5 drunk friends come after you.

As the old saying goes, even if one person reads the article and starts slowing down its putting less people at risk in the desert.


Well-Known Member
I agree with all of Khris's words and have added my own thoughts to it in the past. I will say that there are plenty of areas in OCO and the desert in general where you can have a fast good time in your truck with nobody around. We should be heading out to those areas for high speed fun and leaving the camping areas for hanging out and camping.



Well-Known Member

That is my feelings exactly!!! Most of Ocotillo Wells is open and can be hauled ass through. But it doesn't kill you to let up and slow down outta respect for oncoming traffic no matter what they are. That symbol of holding up fingers is just a usefull thing that is pretty common to see between stickered vehicles out in Ocotillo...


Well-Known Member
Like Khris said...some people didn't have the luxury of growing up with your Dad to teach you the rules of the road when coming up on slower traffic or passing people going the other way.
I think if you publish this article in an off-road magazine it is good press (even though someone other than Khris published it). Yes there are law enforcement and "green" people reading it sometimes but, if you really think about it, do we read law enforcement and "green" magazines?
My point is that not too many people are going to use this article against off-roaders. And I see it as an educational article written by someone who cares about everyones safety, not someone who just wants to bash the "prerunner crowd". It is an article that needed to be seen by the majority sooner than later.


Well-Known Member
Khris ,

First off ............. Do I agree that kids drive to fast for their own good and the good of others in the dez ?? Sure I do . Being a little more open minded though helps me to see a different solution . Do you think the people that wrote all the articles about the bad element in Glamis wanted it to turn out the way it did ?? I don't think so . I think they just wanted to raise awareness , and give the bad element some bad publicity and then maybe they wouldn't come back . Unfortunatly ............. It didn't go down like that . Now as you might know , the fate of Glamis is rapidlly coming to a head . No longer can you go to any hill at night , or even feel safe from the abusive BLM , Rangers , CHP , City Cops , and any other organization they feel the need to employ there . I have been around the dez for about 30 years of my life , so I've seen many fazes . The one we're in now is far worse then the one that brought this one about .

As for the article .............. let me give you a quick little comparrison .

If you had a friend that was addicted to drugs , and you wanted to help him get off them and do the right thing , how would you handle it ?? Would you put an article in the paper that says really big " MY FRIEND DAVE IS ADDICTED TO DRUGS AND DOESN"T KNOW HOW TO LIVE NORMAL " ?? Or would you go and talk to your friend and educate him and try and help him without making it a public deal ?? Just think about that for a second .

If you love the dez so much , then you wouldn't want anything to jeoperadize (sp) its existance . I thought the article when it was on here was a good thing , but let's not get all carried away . You say it will do more good then bad or can't do any harm ?? You're nuts !!!! Let's go to the extreme and say that from this article it gets the publicity that Glamis got . Do you want Ocotillo to get the same end result Glamis has ?? I sure hope not , but that is a possability . Remember that if someone reads into this too far and really starts to do something about it then we all lose . They don't just slow the prerunner kids down . They say ok everybody out of the pool !!! Then where are you at ??

Another thing ............ What was the first thing that happened when they closed large parts of Glamis for the milk weed deal ?? There was a bunch of jackasses saying how they were going to go and ride where they did for years and nobody was going to stop them . So they rode out there , got photos taken of them and we almost lost Glamis . So now some kid gets pissed at your article and says " hey I've been coming out here for years and I never hit anyone so don't tell me how to drive " . Then he goes out there and drives faster and faster just to go against your article and ends up killing a kid on a fifty or any of us . Do you want to think deep enough to realize that ?? Or are you thinking that's impossible and the people would never ride out of bounds in Glamis to spite the law ?? I'm just saying to open your eyes . Do I love the sound of a drunk guy on dirt bike at 4 am buzzing by my motorhome ?? NOPE !! So I get my A$$ up and go do something about it . I wouldn't go and write an article about the drunks on bikes in Ocotillo . I know where that could lead .Just like I said before we are all in this thing together . If one gets diciplinned (sp) then we all do , and it's on all sides of the spectrum . Not just the drunk guy , but the normal guy that now will get harrassed for anything the Ranger or BLM guy may think in his own mind is wrong .

I wouldn't consider myself part of the problem at all in the dez . I don't speed by anyones camp , and I sure as hell watch for the idiots on bikes . Because if I hit them they will lose for sure and I don't want to live with that . I don't taunt the rangers , and cuss them out for pulling me over , which will just make them act worse towards the next guy . I try to think a bit more .

If any of this didn't click to you then keep writing your articles and see where we end up . I don't go to Ocotillo much myself , but I'd like it to be there when I do .

Dan Vance


Well-Known Member
I agree with Dan. I agree that the type of behavior that is happening in O.W. is not right, but for one of our own to publicly state what he saw in a printed publication is not what we need. The fact is that we do not read greenpeace magazines, but we are not trying to stop them from doing anything like they are trying to us. Plus, we are not the sneaky, cowardly, bastards that they are, either. ( I am not bitter, though!!)

The way they may see it is...............If a dez-lover is saying that all of this is going on and publicising(sp) it, just imagine how bad it really is!!! I am not saying that it is any worse than what the article said it was, because I am not sure that is possible, I am just looking at it if I was the BLM, greenpeace, etc.

I just think we need to all concentrate our efforts on preserving our land in appropriate ways such as clean-ups and the sort. I agree with your opinions and thoughts, Khris (sp.). But I am adamently against the way and manner that they were expressed.



Well-Known Member
I agree with what Khris (sirhk) 100% in the original thread... I think he has the right intentions, and I think it was good to post here, Dezert Rangers, and even on, but I don't think it should have made it to a newspaper.
I think a big majority of careless drivers (motorcycle and trucks alike) read one board or another, and the publicity the matter got on the boards was enough. Newspapers mix things up, and the public looks at it differently than us dezert people do.
Any efforts to educate the green kids and bad seeds should try to be kept in the community. (I know the newspaper is the community, but I really think it is only fuel for some tree hugger's fire)


Well-Known Member
It worked!! Glad to see you guys discussing this topic. NOW practice what you preach!!!!!


Well-Known Member
Dan had some great points but I agree with Sweetdevil by putting it in a newspaer and not just the web you just made alot of tree huggers read it and now they will attack Ocotillo just like they say "think before you drink" well I would think before you write and who's lap the paper ends up in!....Mike


Well-Known Member
Wake up you guys; you can't control who gets what. By thinking BEFORE you do it, you avoid the whole situation. Wait, wasn't that the point to begin with???????


Well-Known Member
Want to slow down in the desert -
Picture these things in your mind. You're at the funeral of a six year old that you ran over and killed in your truck. You have to look at the parents and sibilings and convey that you are sorry or remorseful while you can't shake the image of the little rider clipping a rock and falling right under your tire eventhough you were well off to your side or so you thought. Now jump ahead to the criminal trial as your terrible remorse does you no good and you are convicted of manslaughter or depravied indifference since you could clearly see the little biker coming down the road towards you. Now you're at the civil trial and the jury has just awarded $ to the plaintif, your insurance company has left you standing solo since the criminal proceedings. Now your life- your family's life not to mention the kid's and his family are completely ruined. Most likely you will never go to the desert again all because you were testing your long travel kit with visions of Trophy Truck in your head. - This is why I don't slow down when I see an oncoming biker - I STOP. This might be extreme but better safe then sorry. I have been the biker as many time as the driver. Save the racing for race day and test in isolated areas with spotters watching out for people coming into your path. Get off the box Bret these people all know this anyways its those that don't read here that don't.


Well-Known Member
I think some of you guys ar confused about the publication which printed Khris' post. It is not a newspaper it is San Diego Offroad Magazine, and i really don't think tree huggers or the general public reads it. Just for the record i totally agree with Khris. There are a lot of people out there who needed to hear that message.