Revive a dying class

T.martin

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I’ve been racing Jeepspeed 1700 for several years now. Won some races and collected a few trophies for second and third overall. I’m looking for the next class to go faster and I’m partial to racing a truck class. I could stay in Jeepspeed and race class 4700. Much faster than 1700. The class is currently growing and a suitable race truck can be picked up for a decent price. I’ve also been thinking of possibly purchasing a trophylite and making the jump to class 6000. There have been a few posts recently about class 6000 and now I’m not so sure.

I’ve been watching the car count go down in both 1700 and 6000 and car count and growth of a class is part of my decision process. I’m also not sure that there is enough of a jump in average speed when going from 1700 to 6000. So what about class 6100? The truck count is good and the trucks are fast. But honestly, too fast for my skills and cost too much for my budget. 6100 truck prices seem to match the cost of a trophy trucks these days (except for awd).

I’ve looked at average speeds for several classes and there appears to be a hole in the natural progression of speed in the truck classes.

2020 VtoR Top 3 average speed
6000 40.48
4700 45.76 (top 2)
6100 58.23
TT 65.11

2020 Parker 425
6000 46.31
4700 50.34 (top 2)
6100 59.73
TT 63.10

I’m looking for a truck class that averages around 50 mph. 4700 looks like it is close, but it is limited to Jeep and Dodge bodied vehicles and I don’t see anyone building a new vehicle for this class. I think this may be the void that trophylite R8 (6800) was hoping to fill. Not sure if that class will take off due to the class being tied to a specific business. I know everyone rolls their eyes when new classes are discussed so how about revamping a dying class? Based on truck count, 7200 is a dying class. 6100 has put more than a few nails in the 7200 coffin.

How about something constructive from the RDC community? Let’s put our heads together and see what a spec V6 class may look like. Limit the tire size to 37”. Limit the shock size (might reduce cost). Specify a transmission. Specify several different sealed V6 engines. Maybe a minimum weight requirement? Full tube chassis or door slammers allowed.

I think with the addition of a spec V6 class, there would be a nice progression of speed between the classes. Someone could start at the bottom and work their way to the top.

Sportsman or 1700, 6000 (or 3000), 7200 revised, 6100, TT

Fire away.
 

J Prich

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In before "no new classes" outrage, lol. Not sure it's a completely fair fight and the game has changed a bit but I wonder if it would be reasonable to have attempted to combine 7100 and 1700. I think the 7100s would have a bit of an advantage generally speaking but finding a way to take two existing classes and pool them seems better than starting a third class to combat the death of two existing classes.
 

J Prich

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That's why I said revive.
Yeah I get that but what you proposed is a new class that does not currently exist. There is not now a Spec V6 class akin to what you outlined so not sure how you call it any thing other than a new class.
 

MTPyle

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7200 could add the 430hp LS3 and keep the tire and width restriction. Lots of older 6100 would fit into that and make 7200 better. I don't think the Honda team would be worried about racing a LS3 430hp engine truck. Or even Merritt for that matter with his Ecoboost.

So v6 forced induction or LS3 NA seems pretty equal on engine and 37" tire. And no under drive. Basically combine older 6100 with 7200 and you have a really large group of trucks that could compete. Would be a great feeder to 6100/TTspec/bajatruck

Plus gives a place for all those 6100 trucks that did not make the upgrades a place to race. Kind of what 6800 is supposed to be but I don't see that happening. the TL R8 could be in that class and they can show what it can do.

Mike

Edit - PS I dont know much about the 7200 rules.
 

MTPyle

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Dan, You were right

Every thread turns to a UTV thread. Hehe

Mike
 

SMS81

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Buy a TL, manage it yourself race in 3000 expect low entries great affordable truck lots of fun.
Buy a 6100, mortgage your home, drive one hell of a cool truck for a while until you figure out you can’t afford to run up front.
Really depends on the series you like, places you like to race etc. trucks are $$, don’t get so caught up on the speed, find a class with good enough comp and have fun, it’s a hobby.
 

azjeepracer

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I do believe the good people at Fusion may be working on somethinh that may be exactly what your talking about in there T-4 class truck. check it out, sounds like its right where that would slot
 

T.martin

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I looked up the T-4 class truck. What class do they fit in? Is it 3000? Seems like that's where the specs would put it. If that is what class 3000 will become, then I think the speeds will fit in the zone I was referring to. TL will need a pretty good overhaul to be competitive in that class.

Per Fusion "The end result will be a truck with speeds of a class 10 car and relatively low prep costs. 23” front travel. 28” rear travel. 35” tires. 365 hp 400 ft tq. 118” wheel base and 90” track width."
 

T.martin

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Engine hp and torque don't fit with any of the class 3000 approved engines. Still not sure what class it fits.
 

jeepspeedcom

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Revive a dying class.????

Interesting post from our long time racer Tim Martin. Here is my personal take on this subject. Speed cost money so how fast do you want to go. Your average speed chart proves that.

After racing teams in the desert since 1991 in about every truck class from stone stock, Class 3, Class 6 , Class 8. 1700, 2700, 3700, 7200 to Trophy Truck I would like to chime in.. Class 1700 with 6 cyl and 33" tire has not changed in 20 years and is the longest running spec class in the desert and is still the cheapest way to go. Competitive cars are available from $15K to $25K. Pre covid in 2019 we had 15 teams compete. This short season 11 teams with 6 new teams who have bought cars in last 6 months. Also the 11 teams this year in 2700 and 3700 are progressions of 1700 with more power and travel. The SXS and TL took a bite into 1700 until now, when they are costing up to $80K to get a winner. 1700 is not a dying class.

To address the meat of your post our new 4700 class satisfies your need for speed for affordable truck racing available to purchase at under $80K. Our winning trucks are now averaging 50 mph. Class 6100 averaging 60 mph but costing $200k to $300K. The prep cost of a 4700 have got to be 25% of 6100. Class 4700 can include Pro Truck, Ultra 4, 7200, Class 8, 1450, any tube frame or back halved truck under 123" wheel base or stock WB +/- 2" with factory frame.. All you need body wise at this point is a Jeep or Dodge recognizable grill.

Please, No new classes are needed as there are scores of idle trucks that could do a little body work and join 4700. No crazy rules about sealed motors, minimum weight, spec trans, steel or glass bodies. Just limited 18"front travel and 37" tires which are great equalizers.

Tim I can give you a list of Pro Trucks and 1450 trucks that have been advertised in the last 6 months at half the cost you would spend to build a new truck.

Hope this helps with your decision.

PS. How much is this Fusion???? Not cheap I suspect.
 

MTPyle

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one of the problems with budgeting for the racing we do it prep cost.

I dont think a 6100 is more to prep than a 4700. But I bet if you are racing 6100 you are going to do more prep to just make sure its all good. So the 6100 ends up more just because those guys want to be more competitive. Its not like the parts on a 6100 are more expensive than a 4700. Its mostly the same stuff.

There is a huge variable in prep cost. You can do a $30K prep or a $6K prep. You wont get away with many $6K preps before you need to do a bigger one. So you really have to look at a complete season of prep. We just had to buy a $9K engine, thats not happening on a $6K prep. If I look at the average cost of our preps for the season its around $6K and thats without paying expensive shop rates. Thats when we do most of the work. So a 6100 isn't that bad. That being said I think the prep we just did with engine and all is pushing $25K, it adds up fast. I bet if you completely re built a 4700 with new engine and fresh everything it would be the same. there is nothing exotic about a 6100.

Mike
 

B. R C Arrow

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I say buy a trophylite, you'll have various options to race in in the near future with a decent purse to go with it. If you can drive a tl fast, you'll be able to drive anything fast. These trucks aren't built for speed but rather to be a drivers truck, just like 1600, not the fastest but a good driver can make them fast. There are 38 tls built and soon you'll see some coming out of the woodworks, out from under covers and out of the garages to go race in a new direction. The trucks are rad, they are dependable and usually have a good finishing rate, aren't that expensive to maintain and race competitively and they go fast enough to get you in trouble if your not careful. Just my two cents as I love my truck and looking forward to the new direction that's coming our way.
Brandon Arciero
 

dislocated1

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Tim, spend a few grand and convert your 1700 to a 2700.... You would be surprised what 35's, a few more inches of travel and a little mor HP does!

I have raced and prepped TL's..... I wont say anything positive or negative about them. But they are TL's I will leave it at that

4700 will grow some legs and take off I bet, we have a Pro-truck here at the shop we are cleaning up and prepping. I would really love to see a 140 or class 8 style truck come over and run with the PT's to see how it stacks up
 

Pee Wee

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I’ve raced 1700 for quite a spell and 6000 we ran two cars one season. For 2021 I’ll race a Pro Truck in 4700 here and there because neither Krellwitz or I want to chase points. Having tested the 4700 before tearing it down for a freshen up I have to say it’s going to be a hoot to run and we have faith in Jeepspeed to give us a fair and economical place to race. One thing to keep in mind is 33” tires keep cost down but in a 40” tire world the fun meter won’t be very high after a while.
 

Red Ford Racer

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I agree with Brandon, our modified trophylite is a blast to drive! The ecoboost engine in stock form is readily available and makes over 300 h.p. We have all the parts you need to make a trophylite faster and more dependable. Build it yourself and buy your parts from anyone. Go racing... is that not what we build them for?
Mike McCarthy
(602)418-6387
 

jeepspeedcom

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Tim, good thread.
Pee Wee, thanks for endorsing 4700. You guys will be fast next season. Could see ten trucks racing soon.
dislocate1, You are correct. A 1700 with stroker motor, 35" tire and more travel and better shocks is the most economical way for 1700 guys to go faster.
Red Ford Racer, could one of your 300 hp TL hang with a 4700 PT both with 18" front travel?
Question, how come a forced induction 6 cyl runs against naturally aspirated 6 cyl in 7200?
 

desertspeed

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This is our first year racing in 4700 and we love it so far. We are the only non ProTruck currently racing, our truck used to be a 7200 but we swapped out the v6 motor for an LS3. Great group of people racing, very competitive, and since the rules are fairly open to several different vehicles it will hopefully continue to grow. There are 5 registered for the BWDC in 4700 which I believe is the largest Jeepspeed class. Considering the class is really only 2 years old that is a pretty good sign.
 
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