Revive a dying class

jon coleman

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The "average" person can not afford to race anything, much less off-road. I don't think there has ever been a time that racing was accessible to the average guy. I promise Ray Griffith is "Rich" and was back then LOL Its all relative.

And even with classes like TL that are controlled to be cheaper and accessible are expensive and still people complain that they need too be wider, faster, etc...

Mike
does a true offroad " spec" class exist?, such as the scca spec racer ford?, i think off road racing, i mean in its true purist sense, IS accessible to all, if you cant afford a class , keep dropping down till you do, then shut up and race that sportsman yz250 or that old 7 truck you bought for $4000...With spares👍
 

michael.gonzalez

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does a true offroad " spec" class exist?, such as the scca spec racer ford?, i think off road racing, i mean in its true purist sense, IS accessible to all, if you cant afford a class , keep dropping down till you do, then shut up and race that sportsman yz250 or that old 7 truck you bought for $4000...With spares👍
I feel like TrophyLite was as close to a full spec class as we've had.
 

T.martin

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That is one of the problems with a spec class. Instead of a current racer moving on to another class, they push for rule changes to get more speed. Spec trophy truck didn't need more horsepower and bigger tires. But that's what they got. Trophylite doesn't need to be wider to be faster. Leave it alone. If you want to go faster, move to the next class. Jeepspeed 1700 rules have remained the same for years. In my opinion the speed required to win has gone up because teams have figured out how to make them take the punishment. There are good used 1700 jeeps out there for $20k. No way anyone can build something like that from scratch for the same budget.
 

michael.gonzalez

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Jeepspeed 1700 rules have remained the same for years. In my opinion the speed required to win has gone up because teams have figured out how to make them take the punishment. There are good used 1700 jeeps out there for $20k. No way anyone can build something like that from scratch for the same budget.
So what? Pull those boot straps up! Gotta pay to play IMO.
 

T.martin

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I'm saying it is an affordable class. I still race 1700 and think it is one of the most affordable classes. If someone wanted to race 1700, they could contact Mike at Jeepspeed and he could point them to a good used vehicle. It doesn't take $5k for prep each race.
 

michael.gonzalez

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I'm saying it is an affordable class. I still race 1700 and think it is one of the most affordable classes. If someone wanted to race 1700, they could contact Mike at Jeepspeed and he could point them to a good used vehicle. It doesn't take $5k for prep each race.
Okay, I read that wrong.

I agree 1700 is a great class to race in! I've always wanted a race cherokee.
2000 as well.
 

jon coleman

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I'm saying it is an affordable class. I still race 1700 and think it is one of the most affordable classes. If someone wanted to race 1700, they could contact Mike at Jeepspeed and he could point them to a good used vehicle. It doesn't take $5k for prep each race.
my goal was to keep my baby( 1700 'jimko'), and follow Clive's path of modifying it to go faster& step up to next class of jeepspeed to one day it woulda sported a viper junkyard v-10 6 speed, a arm front bulk head 37 hand me down tires.....then i got ran over
 

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Bro_Gill

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If you are at 50k income a year it would be best you do not attempt to race your own ride in any class. Your 10k dream ride would be 1/5 of your income and the minimum 2k per race would leave you without food money.
So much truth here. Class 9, reality is, you could go racing the first time at a small race for probably $8-10K. That would be buying a used car that doesn't need a new motor or trans and a good prep that YOU can do. suits and helmets will add a bit to the price. This also assumes the poor sucker selling the car is also letting a trailer go with it. If you have that stuff and a tow rig, fueling equipment, etc, you can keep the cost down. This class these days is about the only way you are gonna hit a race course for $10k or less. After that initial cost, you can probably go race 3-4 times a year for that $10k at a small org race if you can do the majority of prep and maintenance by yourself. About the only thing I needed to farm out was trans work and I am trying to figure out to do that in house as well. Jeep speed is a lower budget class, but my guess is initial cost will be much higher, like $20-30k plus everything is heavier so needs like trailer, tow vehicle, etc... are going to be higher. I used to throw Class 11 in here as well, but with the cost of junk cars to build from and body part costs, etc... My guess is the per race cost is probably $1000 plus more per race at a small series. Any SCORE series race is basically a complete rebuild of the car after every race plus really high entry fees, so I doubt you could do a year of SCORE in a small car for less than $35k on the real cheap.
 

jon coleman

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my average 1700 race weekend( Parker too)200 bucks enterprise rental, usually a 1500 chevy, 360 entry fee , 350 400 total fuel, sleep in truck, bring food 100 bucks, sucker a volunteer into chasing 0- 50 bucks😉, it s as cheap as i could possibly go& still finish...
 

E.Hagle

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80,000 Dollars is NOT Affordable by any stretch of the imagination - the average person makes less than $50,000 a year and can't afford a weekend plaything that costs more than probably 10K MAX -- 1700 is dying because there are too many rich elites competing and the Cherokees - 20 to 30 year old vehicles - are too expensive to build and too expensive to maintain in order to be COMPETITIVE and have any chance of winning - just like all the other classes - the rich always drive out the poor and win all the races - then the poor give up, pack their bags, sell the trucks, and go home - and the class dies .. the prices they're getting for STOCK, UNBUILT Dana 44s is outrageous, the prices they're getting for XJ, ZJ and WJ suspension upgrades and axle rebuilds and brake upgrades and 4.0 L engine rebuilds is ridiculous .. the manufactures need to lower their prices .. they've sold thousands of their products over the years and have recouped their investment multifold - this is not new technology, its been around for 25 years or more, but the prices they're trying to get are still sky high - the average person can't afford them - at least not all of them, which is what you need to be competitive - the average person can't afford to spend 30K to build a class 1400 cherokee that they're going to go and wreck in the desert and need to spend another 5k after every race to repair it .. a pre-cut ready to fit and weld rollbar assy that meets race specs front to back should only cost about $500.00 .. a 6 inch lift [or 4" for 33's with larger wheel-well openings] should only be $500.00 for everything .. relax the rules, open the class up to more commonly available aftermarket parts, instead of limiting it to the Elite Group of Manufacturers, get the total cost to build a 1700 Cherokee below $10,000, limit the overall cost to a maximum of $10,000 [mandatory list of all parts installed and [commonly accepted] cost of parts at inspection], with no "custom made parts" except for the roll cage [with alternate pre-cut, fit and weld available for cost containment] and wheel well mods and plexiglass windows, get rid of claimer engines: if someone is clearly making more power than the rest of the Class - force 'em to pull their head for inspection of bore and stroke - outlaw manufactured beadlock rims {expense containment} [drilling and running screws behind the bead would be acceptable as that only costs maybe 100 dollars in screws and some silicone sealant for 6 rims], an approved race seat, an approved seat belt harness, an approved helmet, and outlaw any product that is deemed too expensive for the average person, and go back to the less stuffed-shirt rules of the 1970s and 1980s, when people were allowed to experiment and take chances and drive across the desert in cut-off shorts and tees and the class will grow ..
There are rules and liability in racing organizations to keep the inexpensive guys from killing themselves or other people. Your headlock idea might work for you if you actually know what you’re doing, but the next guy that comes along with aspirations bigger than his bank account could seriously cause some harm. I’m not knocking the dream or the scope of the idea, but the budget boost lift kits and half ass equipment do not belong in the desert. The good old days are gone, the holes are bigger and the speeds are higher.

p.s I also like to drink and post crazy things
 

E.Hagle

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80,000 Dollars is NOT Affordable by any stretch of the imagination - the average person makes less than $50,000 a year and can't afford a weekend plaything that costs more than probably 10K MAX -- 1700 is dying because there are too many rich elites competing and the Cherokees - 20 to 30 year old vehicles - are too expensive to build and too expensive to maintain in order to be COMPETITIVE and have any chance of winning - just like all the other classes - the rich always drive out the poor and win all the races - then the poor give up, pack their bags, sell the trucks, and go home - and the class dies .. the prices they're getting for STOCK, UNBUILT Dana 44s is outrageous, the prices they're getting for XJ, ZJ and WJ suspension upgrades and axle rebuilds and brake upgrades and 4.0 L engine rebuilds is ridiculous .. the manufactures need to lower their prices .. they've sold thousands of their products over the years and have recouped their investment multifold - this is not new technology, its been around for 25 years or more, but the prices they're trying to get are still sky high - the average person can't afford them - at least not all of them, which is what you need to be competitive - the average person can't afford to spend 30K to build a class 1400 cherokee that they're going to go and wreck in the desert and need to spend another 5k after every race to repair it .. a pre-cut ready to fit and weld rollbar assy that meets race specs front to back should only cost about $500.00 .. a 6 inch lift [or 4" for 33's with larger wheel-well openings] should only be $500.00 for everything .. relax the rules, open the class up to more commonly available aftermarket parts, instead of limiting it to the Elite Group of Manufacturers, get the total cost to build a 1700 Cherokee below $10,000, limit the overall cost to a maximum of $10,000 [mandatory list of all parts installed and [commonly accepted] cost of parts at inspection], with no "custom made parts" except for the roll cage [with alternate pre-cut, fit and weld available for cost containment] and wheel well mods and plexiglass windows, get rid of claimer engines: if someone is clearly making more power than the rest of the Class - force 'em to pull their head for inspection of bore and stroke - outlaw manufactured beadlock rims {expense containment} [drilling and running screws behind the bead would be acceptable as that only costs maybe 100 dollars in screws and some silicone sealant for 6 rims], an approved race seat, an approved seat belt harness, an approved helmet, and outlaw any product that is deemed too expensive for the average person, and go back to the less stuffed-shirt rules of the 1970s and 1980s, when people were allowed to experiment and take chances and drive across the desert in cut-off shorts and tees and the class will grow ..
By the way quality parts hold a quality level price. “Lift kits” are for high schoolers that never leave the pavement. A “rollbar” is actually still stuck in 1970. If you designed an actual suspension system from the floor up, you would be so much further than $500 it wouldn’t even be funny. To buy the material even if you had a bender, notcher, and a welder on hand, would still be way over $500 as well as weeks of your life. Don’t expect anyone to give their time away for free when their craft calls for some respect. Chinese parts are barely affordable these days, and they’ll still kill you.
 

jon coleman

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There are rules and liability in racing organizations to keep the inexpensive guys from killing themselves or other people. Your headlock idea might work for you if you actually know what you’re doing, but the next guy that comes along with aspirations bigger than his bank account could seriously cause some harm. I’m not knocking the dream or the scope of the idea, but the budget boost lift kits and half ass equipment do not belong in the desert. The good old days are gone, the holes are bigger and the speeds are higher.

p.s I also like to drink and post crazy things
Yo G, low budget guys get it done, Paunch &John CAN NOT BE DENIED!!!
 

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Josh 8

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When someone figures it out, post up how you did it for the class 8 guys.
 
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