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Rock'n Raceco Redux

Chubs

Well-Known Member
Beautiful car! Let the haters hate! You got to do three things most of us can only dream being able to do, build & race the Beer Hauler, build & race the Rocket, & own one of MT's racecars! You've roosted ALL of most of us!
 

docramo

Member
Thought I'd let the dust settle Before I clear the air regarding the shock issue on the #12 car.
First congratulations on your NORRA Mexican 1000 finish.....a great accomplishment. I am the driver of record of the #54 RACECO. Our drivers consist of myself, Eddie Frisk (E.F.) and Tim "the knob" (noob?) McDonnell. All our names are on the car for all to see, though not as large as yours! Combined we have 121 years of off road racing. Tim 36 years, Eddie 42 years and myself 43 years. We have multiple Mint 400 wins,class championships and numerous awards. We have been around this sport for a long time and have competed at the highest level.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear, NO PROTEST was ever filed on the # 12 car. An inquiry was handed to a NORRA official asking for " Clarification of rules regarding internal bypass shocks". The design of the Walker Evans Velocity Shocks , with the reservoir mid can, is to allow oil to bypass the piston at mid travel into the reservoir. Walker Evans representative stated that " a long adjustable needle controls this flow". I noticed that you covered up this adjuster with duct tape on all your shocks. Out of close to 240 cars entered, I saw no other adjusters covered up with tape. You said it was so no one would tamper with your settings. I'm thinking you must know something about this ( maybe from racing golf carts ?). No old school racer would ever consider this.
I feel it is the tech personnel responsibility to sort this out, as they did, and said your shocks were class legal.
Nobody used the cheater or protest words. Calling names like "knob" (noob?), "douche act " and "some people are just worst of humanity" was way out of line. And I almost forgot I'm always willing to meet "mano o mano" with anyone that owns a RACECO, especially two !
One last thought for you. After witnessing your chase truck, with relay antenna fully extended, and hitting power lines knocking out the Pemex and other businesses power, the first two people to check on your crew for possible electrocution was DocRamo and the "worst of humanity" Eddie Frisk !
 

dhjeepgeek

Well-Known Member
The car looked great at NORRA. I had the opportunity to check it out at B of LA. Who really cares about all the little details of Vintage or not. Every class has its gray areas. They built a beautiful car and raced it. They built it, finish the build and made to Baja. If your not racing a vintage car or working with a team with one. Then shut up and build one your self. We are running some non vintage parts and shocks. But the car works great with them. And we made it to Baja. and finished.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Some folks go to great pains to keep their cars vintage as they were raced. But then again, those people care about what a vintage car is. They don't need to shut up.
 

Rory

Crayola Killer
I will jump in here a little and I hope you don't mind. I was one of a few guys NORRA came to for help with the vintage rules (for buggies) so maybe what I have to say means something....maybe it doesn't. With vintage racing still in its infancy there is a lot of room to grow. With this in mind and only a handful of race cars per class we wanted to keep the classes somewhat affordable but still somewhat vintage. This is a very difficult thing to do. We opened up the rules to allow 2.5 shocks but no bypass shocks for the Challenger era. If you had bypass shocks on the car you had to be able to prove that YOUR car originally ran them back in the day. The #54 car is legal.

Matt called me when he first got the car and stated he wasn't going to build a pure vintage car, he was going to build one to the rules. Me being somewhat of a purist I tried to get him to reconsider but he had a plan. Not everyone has to think the way we want them to. He did it the right way, made phone calls to see what was legal and what wasn't. The by pass shock comment got my attention so I went straight to the source and asked Matt if his car had a bypass inside the shock. He said "no". I said, can you prove it?** He said call Walker Evans racing or even Tommy Morris, he can tell you.

Well, since I know Tommy Morris pretty well I called him. Tommy is friends with both sides (Matt Parks and the #54 car). Tommy is also buddies with the guys at Walker Evans.

Tommy said Matt told Randy Anderson and Reid Norton (I think) he needed shocks for his Raceco but it couldn't have the internal bypass in it. Randy said no problem, they filled in the holes and took out the needle valve making it a NON-bypass shock. Could they be lying to Tommy? I guess so. Tommy says if Reid and Randy told him it wasn't a bypass shock he believes them and has no reason to think they're lying.

If I was the #54 car and i saw the shocks on the #12 car i probably would have had questions too. I'm thinking lack of communication was the problem here.

**I don't work for NORRA nor do i have a dog in this fight. I'm not the investigator for NORRA or either team but I do consider myself an advocate for vintage racing so I like to be on top of things if something comes up.

I hope this helps clear the air somewhat. Congrats to both teams on a strong run at this years NORRA Mexican 1000 and a well earned 2nd and 3rd place. BTW, do you guys both know you lost to my old race car?
wink wink....

DAY1 CARS PIEDRAS GORDAS-0749.jpg
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and it's why there are so many ice cream flavors...





Your Raceco is a cool Restomod and hope you enjoy the flavor!
 

LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
Here are a couple more thoughts as I also was involved with the rules for the Legend era and I wrote the vintage rules for SCORE.

1. RORY! HOW DID you remember to Specify the engine in the other Challenger classes and leave buggies wide open!? A current Formula One engine is legal in the Challenger Buggy class!

2. Tightening the rules have NOT had a negative effect on total car counts. NORRA has continued to grow. it is my belief that good vintage rules gives vintage racing integrity and will keep it growing.

3. It is hard to justify a restoration to only race once a year. I know NORRA did the ill fated NORRA 500 once but a second race done the correct NORRA way is needed.

4. Currently there is no incentive to restore a car "vintage correct", but some of us like to restore the old parts and take 40 year old shocks to Bilstein and Fox to be rebuilt. it is always fun to see the look on their faces.

5. There is no incentive to restore or build a car vintage correct. I would like to see some type of incentive for being vintage correct on drive train and suspension parts. I don't think safety related parts such as brakes and steering should be factored in. Maybe 5 minute penalty per day for running non era correct shocks? Another 10 minute penalty per day for running a non era correct engine? Just a thought....

6. NORRA continues to grow. I believe NORRA should be very different than SCORE. No pre-running helps to preserve the course but I don't believe anything with over 37" tires should ever be on a NORRA course.

We got the Legend Era working pretty well. I don't have a dog in the Challenger Era fight other than my teammate who races Challenger Truck that other than new paint was restored just as it last raced in the '80s with the original 2" Bilstein's and all.
 
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dhjeepgeek

Well-Known Member
You are right Gill, I shouldn't tell people to shut up. I had just read through the entire thread and was tired of hearing it. As to the people who do take the time to redo an older car and make it all original and race it, that takes a lot of time and effort and I don't discount that at all. But on the other hand, People who take a car and make it go, and race it. That's awesome too. They are out here doing it. As to the original car the post was started for. That car is real nice.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
It is awesome, but the point is, how many old desert race cars do you think are left on the planet that are still in as raced shape from back in the day versus those that have constantly been updated, turned into prerunners, etc... and really have none of the old school race stuff left on them? That was the evolution of cars, race new, update a couple times, put into prerunner stab;e, then what is left? That is why if a old car car didn't have that happen to it., and it still has that old race set-up and can be restored/put back into race shape that way, it should be worth saving. Anyone can go out and buy a new chassis and do the same suspension and power train that Matt did without destroying an old race car in the process. I think that is the point. Ask Rory how rewarding it is (And costly$$$) to put together cars the way they were built. It takes effort, but making a car like it was when it raced is pretty damn cool.
 

oldschool5er

Well-Known Member
Martin, in your opinion what do you consider the point at which a car becomes not original as raced? we are talking bugs here so is it with a whole body replacement? new cage?, the point it went from swingaxle to irs? or what percentage of original race parts left on it? If you have all the original race parts to put a car back to any of the 3 Norra profiles how do you choose between a Pioneer, Challenger, or Legend class if a car had raced close to all 3 Norra profiles at some point in Score and Norra. Which is better? and do you really want to remove every detail of it's transitions throughout it's history as this seems like a bigger issue on bajas then race buggys. the longer the history the more renditions the cars went through as you said.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
Race it it in ANY of the historical conditions it raced in, but taking a car with, say, a built type 1 VW motor and bus trans, Bilsteins 2.0 shocks, torsion bars, etc... and putting in a ecotec, Mendeola 5 speed, King 2.5 coilovers and 3.0 bypass shocks and attempting to call it vintage is not what I consider racing a vintage car. I have a 1976 Hi-jumper I am putting together now. It came to me with boxed stock rear arms, stock width 8" tower beam in front, type 1 motor and IRS bus trans and 2" Bilsteins. Some of the original fiberglass in really poor shape. It is going back together with many of those same parts. I researched which shocks it had and I got some new ones that are the same. It will still be running the type 2 CVs. It will still have a gusseted set of link pin spindles. It will still have type 1 front and type 3 rear drum brakes. I was told this car raced the Baja 1000 in 1977. I managed to find good fiberglass body panels that are correct for the car. There are a few things I wonder about, like how did 2 people actually race inside one of these of they were over 5'4" and 120 pounds each, but I know they did, so the car is being rebuilt with mostly original parts. Is it a historical significant car? Don't know. No way to tell. But it is an old race car and as such, I am keeping it an old race car. Over the last couple years, I have picked up a complete Funco SS2 fiberglass body as well, if anyone needs one. Didn't want to see it languish in a garage or warehouse until someone decided it needed to go to a dumpster. Just today, while driving into town, I saw an old Hi-jumper shortback 2 seat buggy with an original fiberglass hood on it that wasn't there 3 days ago. I know where a couple Bandidos with fiberglass are sitting as well as a Funco SS2 that has had the rear back-halfed and never finished that could be returned to a standard 100" correct car as well. The stuff is out there.
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
Pic having a an absolute blast driving my Raceco. Nearly 1400 miles behind the wheel. Soooo much fun!

DAY 2  EL HUERFANITO CARS 10478.JPG
 

jamoffroad1

Well-Known Member
First off anyone that knows Matt knows Matt is a great guy and loves off-road racing. To say he cheated is so wrong and to say it on a forum like this is B.S. All you here talking crap on Matt and his car build are A holes . NORRA is a for fun race and that is what it is , to say so and so is cheating is just wrong . If you don"t race then go away . You are the problem with race dez . Matt spent his money and had his car built to race and have the least down time and HAVE FUN THAT"S WHY PEOPLE DO NORRA. flame away . I have been to the last 5 norras chasing for people and co riding . I go because the NORRA is the best time in baja all you have to do is ask someone who has been there.
 
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LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
First off anyone that knows Matt knows Matt is a great guy and loves off-road racing. To say he cheated is so wrong and to say it on a forum like this is B.S. All you here talking crap on Matt and his car build are A holes . NORRA is a for fun race and that is what it is , to say so and so is cheating is just wrong . If you don"t race then go away . You are the problem with race dez . Matt spent his money and had his car built to race and have the least down time and HAVE FUN THAT"S WHY PEOPLE DO NORRA. flame away . I have been to the last 5 norras chasing for people and co riding . I go because the NORRA is the best time in baja all you have to do is ask someone who has been there.
NORRA is definitely the most fun you can have racing in the desert. I have never heard anyone who has raced NORRA claim there is a more fun race anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bajaxp

Baja Bobsled Team
Just read that this was raced in 1988. Nice car. Big tires and interesting shocks. Anybody know what engine was in this beauty?
35 inch tires.jpg
 
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