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Sawtooth canyon

Discussion in 'Save the Desert' started by Shazaam, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. Shazaam

    Shazaam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    Huntington Beach,Ca.,USA,earth
    I did a search here and could find nothing on this, so I'll ask. The area south of Slash X cafe, known as sawtooth canyon has reacently gone through a transformation with all the concrete pads and cabanas and gravel roads and fences and signs and, and, and. So, while riding into it today I was stopped by the "camp host" to be told that no ohv"s are allowed in that area at all anymore. In my nicest, most delicate manner I could muster, I got in a heated argument with this guy about why. The best he could come up with is that the old folks dont like the noise and the dust, and told me that there is 11K acres out there for you to go ride. My question is this, where do the funds to make such a campground in an already established OHV area come from and why are we not allowed to enter? Is this what I pay my green sticker fees towards?

    Amazing they can put a "camp ground" in an OHV area, but if I try to go ride my scooter down at the KOA in Yorba Linda, they all get pissed. Someone please enlighten me on this, learn me somethin, please.
     
  2. Bro_Gill

    Bro_Gill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Location:
    Big Bear, CA
    Shaz- One thing you need to understand is that the boundries of the OHV area, while they are surrounding open OHV area, there are still some private land owners in there who still control their land. If the owner of the private land doesn't want you riding yoru OHV on it, that is their right. About 20% of the land inside the Stoddard area is actually private land, the owners have never prevented folks from riding across it, so every assumes it is all BLM land. It isn't. While you may have ridden there for years, now the owner is asking you not to. Respect their wishes, or you might create a bad environment with him complaining to the BLM and they decide that a buffer is neede dto keep riders away from the private land in question. I also want to point out that I remember prerunning the area in the early 1980s and one of our regular deals was breakfast at the Denny's in Apple Valley one of the mornings we were camped out there. We would ride dirt bikes all the way from the college parking lot to there to eat. The open area is not bearly as large as it used to be and if you push some of the land owners buttons, it may get even smaller. Get a map from the BLM office across the street from the college so you can see where the actual boundries for the open area are. I think the area you are talking about isn't even included.
     
  3. Perfect Race

    Perfect Race Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Location:
    Oak Hills, Ca.
    So is it a private campground or one you can go camp at? We used to go out there and camp and hit parties there 20 years ago.
     
  4. OldStroppeTeam

    OldStroppeTeam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Location:
    Parker,AZ
    I am pretty sure Sawtooth Canyon is BLM development.. I know there is a BLM kiosk at the highway which usually indicates it is a BLM location and it has all therules for that area posted. It's probably just the Camp Host is being a little unreasonable.

    The BLM map suggestion is a VERY GOOD idea, then talk to the folks at the office about their volunteer helpers !
     
  5. Vtr_Racing

    Vtr_Racing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2001
    Location:
    Austin,Texas
    If its private property dont get into a beef with the guy. I dont know if it is right where your talking about.
     
  6. Wayne_Nosala

    Wayne_Nosala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2001
    Location:
    The Dezert
    Looked into this a bit

    Sawtooth is outside the boundary of Stoddard open area

    But,
    It appears there are legal WEMO routes up to the entrance of that canyon,
    Not having been there, Im not sure exactly were this campground was put

    Appears there is a utility road that goes into the canyon that did not make it into WEMO

    One would assume there is a gate there, But OHVs should be allowed to at the least stage,
    Unload and legally proceed to the ORDs or other legal areas of interest

    The jeepers seem happy with the whole thing http://www.myjeeprocks.com/forums/showthread.php/18224-New-Remote-Campsites

    Here is the WEMO map
    [​IMG]
     
  7. ryan650

    ryan650 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Wayne,

    The campground is west of Highway 247 at the end of the green road labeled "under ground" where all the orange trails overlap the green roads right above the word "Stoddard" on your image. I was just there last weekend and the road leading to the campground from Highway 247 is closed to OHV. The sign says street licensed vehicles only, no OHV travel allowed. There are no OHVs allowed to travel on roads within the campground either. This makes the campground infeasible for OHV staging (e.g. green sticker/red sticker vehicles). There is no gate on the road that I saw, there may be one at the entrance to the campground but I didn't notice, I was too busy asking the camp host "WTF?" I was fairly distraught at seeing what the BLM had done, I've been staging and camping there for 30 years and was there last October and never saw anything about this conversion to a campground.

    I looked into things a little more when I got home and it appears that they BLM tiered off of a 1993 Environmental Assessment (EA) to satisfy their NEPA. I work in the environmental field for a government agency and relying on such an old document is a bit iffy, at least in my world. Therefore I have contacted John Kavanaugh at the Barstow BLM office and requested a copy of the EA. Their scoping announcement was posted on 4/21/2010 and does not mention restricting OHV. http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/newsroom/2010/april/CDD1056_sawtooth_scoping.html

    The whole thing seems pretty poorly done as far as public noticing and using current data for preparing the EA. I'm fine with them installing a campground but restricting OHV is absurd in this area. I plan to challenge their NEPA if possible. We really can't stand to lose anymore land for OHV.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  8. Wayne_Nosala

    Wayne_Nosala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2001
    Location:
    The Dezert
    That is Total Bull S++t, Those green routes are LEGAL OHV routes, I have been looking into this, I have had a
    couple of people really bend my ear on it and it was brought up on another message board yesterday.

    Im told one of the reasons for buttoning up the area is it was a hot spot for rave parties and local mischief

    Well, welcome to modern society, some of its is ugly, But us responsible OHV people should not have to
    belly up and pay the price via closure.

    I defenetly will be looking into this further

    Wayne
     
  9. coilover88

    coilover88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Location:
    Paso Robles, CA
    Typical, unacceptable, opaque, sneaky, AND what Wayne said!
     
  10. coilover88

    coilover88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Location:
    Paso Robles, CA
  11. Perfect Race

    Perfect Race Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Location:
    Oak Hills, Ca.
  12. Wayne_Nosala

    Wayne_Nosala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2001
    Location:
    The Dezert
    I looked into this in depth, We can fight it, But We cant win if people
    cannot learn the true meaning of "Limited Use"

    There have been many different problems associated with this particular area
    the main one OHVs tearing up the area.

    Since WEMO was signed, this area was designated limited use, as in
    stay on designated trails. Its not a place to unload a trailer load of bikes
    and quads and run amok, that is what the open areas are for.

    It is unfortunate because its a nice place to camp, and up until Roxie Troast
    signed the emergency closure, it would have been a good place to unload
    and proceed into the ORDs or Stoddard legally, But certain people assume
    Sawtooth is an open area.

    So, long story short, Our own actions got it closed

    Wayne
     
  13. coilover88

    coilover88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Location:
    Paso Robles, CA
    I get very upset when the gov't takes something from us. But I get plum pissed when it's "our own" idiots that bring it upon us. Thanks boneheads!
     
  14. ryan650

    ryan650 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you, Wayne for looking into this further.There seems to be a lot of conflicting reasons for all of the changes and restrictions. So far we've heard that the campground was established to keep out ravers and deter other mischief (paraphrasing) and green sticker OHVs have been excluded via an emergency closure because OHVers are tearing up the area (and screw those people who did), and the article that "Perfect Race" posted the link to says:

    "The BLM had to close access to the OHVs because of a biological opinion from the Stoddard Valley OHV management plan, said Blaine. The biological opinion stated that OHV access to the site had to be stopped once the campground was established."

    The BLM's public noticing for the project did not include anything about restricting OHV in the area which they would have been required to disclose if they had a Biological Opinion that stated it was required once the campground was established.

    I requested a copy of the EA prepared for the campground from the Barstow BLM office almost 3 weeks ago and still haven't received it and I am really getting very suspicious about this whole issue and how it was handled by the BLM. They seem to be finding any excuse they can to justify what they've done and all of their stories don't seem too consistent. After the BLM closed Clear Creek based on what now appears to be false data I just don't trust what they say anymore.

    Side note: When I release a document like an EA, an EIR, etc. or have a project that I know some group will probably not be happy about, I monitor the forums that I know they might post to so I have a heads up about potential issues I'll have to deal with; I'm sure they are monitoring this board and others as well. So, Hi BLM.
     
  15. Shazaam

    Shazaam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    Huntington Beach,Ca.,USA,earth
    stay on it Ryan, and thanks. needs to be opened to OHV, but monitored, like most campgrounds in CA. no problems in Kennedy Meadows or the Sierras at the campgrounds there. Seems we need to try to get it opened back to OHV but keep the camp host and have BLM present often, to keep the idiots out.
     
  16. dheldrethjr

    dheldrethjr New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Location:
    barstow
    I agree that it was your own boneheads that created this. I'm from Barstow and have lived here most of my life. The average person who goes into the desert to ride there or elsewhere that I have encountered leaves trash, beer bottles and rides all over the desert in open, closed or limited use areas. There is no respect for the land or others who use it. While that may not apply to you, and it may upset you that these areas are being closed it is because of the majority of the riders are idiots. It's harder to allow a small group of respectful riders into an area and keep the mass of morons out than it is to just close it off. Pretty simple concept.
    Also the Sawtooth Canyon area is home to several raptors' breeding grounds and is being worked on as a sanctuary. The noise from the riding discourages the birds from roosting and there are threatened species in the area. You may not agree that protecting the birds should come first before your right to ride, but the birds were here before us.
     
    (+1) 1 person likes this.
  17. Wayne_Nosala

    Wayne_Nosala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2001
    Location:
    The Dezert
    Oh, An anti everything ..save the earth troll whos answer to every problem is ban everything or close it all off to the public.

    If you live in Barstow as you claim, you know there is a tad bit more to this than just OHV non compliance, some of it
    had to do with your own local hoods and inability to pressure your own local enforcement to help fix the problem instead
    or just closing the place.

    Crawl back under the rock from where you emerged, Bad rep for you

    Wayne Nosala
     
  18. inyonative

    inyonative Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Location:
    independence, ca
    you ask for info and then when someone in the know provides it, you badmouth him..you sound like one of the morons:cool:
     
  19. coilover88

    coilover88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Location:
    Paso Robles, CA
    Ditto what Wayne said. Those aren't our sofas, beds, appliances laying around in Stoddard. The landfill is right there to be used by the good folk of Barstow yet some still want to save a buck more than they want to save the desert.
     
    (+1) 1 person likes this.
  20. Bro_Gill

    Bro_Gill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Location:
    Big Bear, CA
    dheldreth and inyonative- The truth is, you are just trying to add some gas to the flames by flaming here. Sawtooth Canyon has been used for OHV access and racing for over 3 decades, if Raptors are still nesting there, then the OHV folks are not the problem. And please, do not lump OHV users in with shooters. THAT is the problem here, shooters in a non-approved shooting area. As far as the birds being here before us, well, The OHVers were using that area long before you Gaia loving mud eating, cave dwelling Nimbies ever showed up in the desert to 'recreate'. You have over 1 million acres just to the east to go see Raptors, here nothing, and enjoy being alone with yourselves somewhere other than your parents basement, so leave us alone in our 38+ thousand acres in Stoddard Valley.
     
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