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SCORE Allows Turbos & Motor Swaps In Stock Full Class?

desertracer1976

New Member
I came across this article on Ebay motors about Valvoline's truck they're building for the 2016 Baja 1000 and something doesn't add up. They say they are building a Stock Full truck, and the build looks that way, but its a 1991 Ram with a modern Cummins Turbo diesel in it....


First off I thought the motor had to be offered in the chassis when originally sold, use the stock block and heads, and needs to be mounted in the stock location. How does it even get mounted in the stock location if it was never ever sold in that chassis? But thats just the beginning.

Its a TURBO diesel. I thought this class specifically forbids turbos and superchargers? Did I miss a series of rule changes? I know the SCORE site is a mess but the PDF says 2016 and says its restricted to naturally aspirated engines.


Did Valvoline get a special exception from SCORE? If so, I know I would be seriously pissed if I was building or racing a Stock Full truck this year.

If Valvoline isn't going to follow the rules shouldn't they be moved to Sportsman where they can do whatever they want as long as its safe?

It looks like only four teams competed in Stock Full last year so maybe it's not a big deal, but if I were one of these drivers that competed last year(Rod Hall, Chad Hall, Chris Woo, Alex Baker, Tom Hyde, Damien Michelin, Mike Winkel, John Gonzales, Darren Webster, Marc Van Tassell, Kurt Williams,William Carroll,Ryan Davis,David Connors, Douglas McArdle, Jose Ortega, Mickey Van Dyke, Kay Awaad, Jack Mc Arthur,Gabriella Maudena)

I would be seriously pissed that a corporation gets to build an illegal truck and we, the racers, have to follow the rules. It doesn't seem fair or right.
 

Zambo

Well-Known Member
Turbo diesels have been allowed for years. Rams with cummins raced almost every year from 2004-whenever the RPM truck stopped entering in roughly 2010. It was only for stock turbos on diesels.


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redline

Well-Known Member
The engine doesnt have to have come specifically in that year. just has to come in that model.
 

Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
Rod Hall runs a turbo diesel Hummer also. Valvoline's truck seems legit to me. You could get that truck with a 6BT in it.


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desertracer1976

New Member
I know there were a few classes were you could run stock turbo diesels but the rules for the Stock Full class specifically say the cars must be naturally aspirated... Its why I posted and asked the question. The SCORE rules can be confusing!

The engine doesnt have to have come specifically in that year. just has to come in that model.
I totally get that you can move engines around production years but between models? I thought the 150 and the 250 were very different trucks?

And didn't the engine have to at least be offered in that chassis? The first gen Dodge 1500's never had a 24v cummins turbo diesel... they showed up in the 2nd gen trucks of 1995 and once again only in the 250 and 350 chassis. The valvoline truck is a 150.

That would imply I could take a modern Raptor motor and put it in an a 30 year old F150 chassis? Just seems weird for Stock Full but its why I asked. I dont really understand why this is legal.
 
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desertracer1976

New Member
Rod Hall runs a turbo diesel Hummer also. Valvoline's truck seems legit to me. You could get that truck with a 6BT in it.

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I thought the first gen Dodge's ran the 12v and this is the second gen 6BT 24 valve... implying a motor swap between chassis... and there's the 150 vs. 250 issue. I thought you could barely fit the cummins into the first gen half ton because the chassis was so different? Like how do they comply with the motor must be mounted in the original position part of the rules?

But Rod Hall's example is good one. Why does the class say it has to be NA when it doesn't?
 
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Ol' Curmudgeon

RDC's resident crackpot
The SCORE rulebook can still be savage...and savaged.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
When not listed in the rule book, there has always been an addendum that state any vehicle that came from the factory turbocharged can be raced in the class it would otherwise race in. The turbo diesel Isuzu also comes to mind from the 1980s. It raced in class 7/7s. While bot ever offered here in the states, there may have been a 1/2 ton diesel offered overseas by Dodge at some point, just as there have been diesel mini trucks offered just about everywhere else but the States. I am not sure I would want to plop a Cummins into a 1/2 ton chassis with stock chassis parts as weight will definitely be an issue on that front suspension. Seems like they aren't doing to be within the rules, just doing it to participate. Doubt it will be competitive with that weight penalty at a long race.
 

Zambo

Well-Known Member
I don't believe the engine rule was specifically in the stock full rules, I believe it was a general rule that applied to production based trucks (class 8, etc) which allowed stock diesel turbos.
 

desertracer1976

New Member
When not listed in the rule book, there has always been an addendum that state any vehicle that came from the factory turbocharged can be raced in the class it would otherwise race in. The turbo diesel Isuzu also comes to mind from the 1980s. It raced in class 7/7s. While bot ever offered here in the states, there may have been a 1/2 ton diesel offered overseas by Dodge at some point, just as there have been diesel mini trucks offered just about everywhere else but the States. I am not sure I would want to plop a Cummins into a 1/2 ton chassis with stock chassis parts as weight will definitely be an issue on that front suspension. Seems like they aren't doing to be within the rules, just doing it to participate. Doubt it will be competitive with that weight penalty at a long race.
Thanks guys, that makes a ton of sense on the addendum! No wonder I had so much trouble understanding the rules. I wouldn't want to run a cummins in a stock half ton chassis either but something doesn't feel right about their setup.

First, the cummins was only offered on the full ton chassis which is very different than the half ton first gen dodge so I dont see how they comply with the rules mounting it in the "stock" location. Second the turbo diesel offered in the first gen dodge 250 was 12 valve and the motor Valvoline is using is the 24 valve cummins offered in the 2nd gen cummins.

"Seems like they aren't doing to be within the rules, just doing it to participate." I think this is exactly whats going on but isn't that what Sportsman is for? Why would they enter a non legal truck in class where everyone else is supposed to be legal. I know I would protest them out of principal if I were competing in Stock Full and eligible for contingency. It just doesn't seem right and kind of weird that a corporation would knowingly build a truck that isn't legal. Maybe they misunderstood the rules as much as I did?
 

JDDurfey

Well-Known Member
I see your point on the 24v verses the 12v. In fact there was a change in the 12v from the 1st gen to the 2nd gen. Then in 99 the 24v came out in the 2nd gen. The 12v in the 1st gen has less power and a much less buildable injection pump than even the 12v in the 2nd gen.

However, as far as the actual truck goes. If you look at a D150 and compare it to a D250, there is no difference other than the badge and the spring rate. The frame may be a little lighter in the D150 but the bodies are the same. I have a 92 D250 with a Cummins, a 95 2500 with a Cummins, and an 02 3500 with a 24v Cummins. So I know the progression very well.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
There have been other addendums that allow updating and predating within the same builder's family, i.e. modern motor in an early chassis for say, Class 8, newer body style on older chassis, etc... But I think putting the motor from a 1 tom diesel into a half ton chassis would be beyond pushing the rules since that motor and chassis combination never existed and that particular class is suppose to be stock based. Had they started with a 1 ton chassis, that may have been different. Again. somewhere out there there may have been a 1/2 ton Chrysler product offered with the Cummins, but I have never seen it.
 
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