SCORE - Baja 1000 website & coverage is HORRIBLE!

M_Solms

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It depends on how much you're willing to pay...
Are you auctioning the coverage to the highest bidder or offering a service you can list a price for?


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ace_photo

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I'm in a far better position than you to know what is and is not possible in the realm of entertainment and broadcast technology. Even from the middle of Baja it's possible to get images and coverage out. In the big leagues we do it with sat and microwave. It's not cheap but it's available.
I know whats available and how it can be done. I've done it, expensive.. Like I said before, pony up the cash for a BGAN unit and you'll have photos live from RM600 or wherever. I used the Inmarsat unit at IV250 for a test run. My comment was in regard to SCORE has been saying that for years which isn't true, but hey, you might get your wish anyway.
 

vegasloki

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The last live broadcast I worked on went out to over 80 million people worldwide. We use large scale tools and not suitcase or flyaway rigs generally. My knowledge of the suitcase units comes from operations a lot smaller than SCORE that have used them.

When Norman bought SCORE he made all sorts of grandiose statements about changing sports broadcast in general and specifically the Baja events. That includes the fuel supply debacle where the stated upside was some revolutionary new model of coverage which never materialized. They then went on to destroy whatever non SCORE coverage there was including making the WM feed proprietary at the time and tightening up media access. What replaced it was absolute amateur hour. I wouldn't criticize a well meaning, part time effort but in this case he came in like a big swinging dick when in reality it was limp and flacid. Were they humble and inclusive I would have a different opinion.

As an aside, I like your work, Art. It's good stuff.
 

ace_photo

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The last live broadcast I worked on went out to over 80 million people worldwide. We use large scale tools and not suitcase or flyaway rigs generally. My knowledge of the suitcase units comes from operations a lot smaller than SCORE that have used them.

When Norman bought SCORE he made all sorts of grandiose statements about changing sports broadcast in general and specifically the Baja events. That includes the fuel supply debacle where the stated upside was some revolutionary new model of coverage which never materialized. They then went on to destroy whatever non SCORE coverage there was including making the WM feed proprietary at the time and tightening up media access. What replaced it was absolute amateur hour. I wouldn't criticize a well meaning, part time effort but in this case he came in like a big swinging dick when in reality it was limp and flacid. Were they humble and inclusive I would have a different opinion.

As an aside, I like your work, Art. It's good stuff.
10/4. I can see that. What you're talking about is along the lines of Dakar and that comes with a huge price tag. Lots of ups and downs with associated with acquiring something like SCORE. It will get better, trust me.
We'll all find out soon.
Thank you, I try to keep a positive mental attitude and hustle any opportunity that comes my way.




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off2desert

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Mad Media.. plus Ricky Johnson doing commentating. Done!.. I just finished watching the Finke Desert Race again and they do a great job on the video side
 

Dirtworks Films

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Desert racing is not a sport meant for watching from home at a computer. It's a get out and, get your brain melted and, your face splatted with gnarly HP kind of sport. This ain't Nascar son! If your face isn't full of dirt, your statement is null and, void. #dirtaddictions
 

J Prich

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Desert racing is not a sport meant for watching from home at a computer. It's a get out and, get your brain melted and, your face splatted with gnarly HP kind of sport. This ain't Nascar son! If your face isn't full of dirt, your statement is null and, void. #dirtaddictions
Yeah, who cares about the friends, families, and fans who aren't able to rearrange their lives to make it to every race. If you can't give up your adult responsibilities to go follow a hobby, you don't deserve to call yourself a fan anyway right?
 

Bro_Gill

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Yeah, who cares about the friends, families, and fans who aren't able to rearrange their lives to make it to every race. If you can't give up your adult responsibilities to go follow a hobby, you don't deserve to call yourself a fan anyway right?
Pretty Simple, Prich- If they can't be there, they wait for the awesome TV show. The sport isn't big enough to support real live coverage without the racers actually having to pay for it, and that is cost prohibitive. It ain't MAINSTREAM and many of us like it that way. Unless and until Coca-Cola or IBM or Hardees is gonna put up the funding to do it right, all those that whine about it are just that, whiners. Hate to say it that way, but this is exactly the same argument that any entitlement kid at a college is crying about. What, exactly, do they deserve from desert racing?
 

J Prich

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Pretty Simple, Prich- If they can't be there, they wait for the awesome TV show. The sport isn't big enough to support real live coverage without the racers actually having to pay for it, and that is cost prohibitive. It ain't MAINSTREAM and many of us like it that way. Unless and until Coca-Cola or IBM or Hardees is gonna put up the funding to do it right, all those that whine about it are just that, whiners. Hate to say it that way, but this is exactly the same argument that any entitlement kid at a college is crying about. What, exactly, do they deserve from desert racing?
Weird, because this weekend I was laying in my bed at 11pm at night watching Trophy Trucks and Unlimiteds race around Laughlin. And I'm pretty sure a few hundred entitled jerks like me tuned in to watch and appreciated being able to see it.

I guess if I were a real fan though I would have found a way to take 5 days off of work, flown 5,000 miles one way, and gotten some dirt in my face instead of being an entitled whiner.
 

vegasloki

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Pretty Simple, Prich- If they can't be there, they wait for the awesome TV show. The sport isn't big enough to support real live coverage without the racers actually having to pay for it, and that is cost prohibitive. It ain't MAINSTREAM and many of us like it that way. Unless and until Coca-Cola or IBM or Hardees is gonna put up the funding to do it right, all those that whine about it are just that, whiners. Hate to say it that way, but this is exactly the same argument that any entitlement kid at a college is crying about. What, exactly, do they deserve from desert racing?
Classic strawman. RDC does coverage from South America, BITD provides realtime updates, you can even get SNORE realtime updates. No one is talking about a full blown live broadcast feed. The delicate sensibilities of the Roger Norman Mutual Reacharound Society are quite easily offended when pointing out the obvious. Instead of embargoing coverage they should be cooperating with the independents and hobbyists. A tracker, corrected time running order, some live updates here and there, social media aggregation, a few pics here and there, perhaps a short video clip every now and again, WM feed and an occasional interveiw from the main pit. RDC is already doing most of this, quite well I think.

The idea that the complexity and cost of doing this is prohibitive flies directly in the face of the facts. Though a lack of facts don't stop many here from posting an opinion, however uninformed. At least SCORE is not as combative as they were when Norman first started running the races. With cooperation and all hands rowing the same way you might be able to get enough money from a sponsor to deploy a flyaway sat rig or at least radios and repeaters so a pit reporter could call back interesting bits in realtime. Technology and cost aren't the barriers. The barriers are political and structural in nature. Norman's us against them advisarial attitude toward crowd sourced media is the issue.
 

Bro_Gill

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Both of you guys are totally lost on the concept of my post or the point of this conversation...READ THE TITLE!!!
 

J Prich

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Both of you guys are totally lost on the concept of my post or the point of this conversation...READ THE TITLE!!!
Readily concede that I don't remotely understand the concept of your post or the point of this conversation as it pertains to you.

Here's what I do get...when Norman bought SCORE he brought the vestiges of online coverage with him. I don't claim to understand the dynamics of the whole Dirt Live thing but as a minimum it's at least functioning as SCORE's "live coverage". SCORE over the last few years has promoted its live coverage through this mechanism and through a variety of methods circled the wagons around it's branding and made attempts at coverage and content by folks who aren't SCORE more difficult.

Over that same period SCORE has made overt attempts to court bigger corporate involvement. The SEMA set up, qualifying there, etc. All designed to attract new (ie not industry company related sponsors ALREADY involved with the sport) money. Fair to say?

If SCORE is saying they want to attract more corporate money and therefore brand to a wider audience, and even have an internal or at least organizationally approved arm designed to provide live coverage, I don't remotely understand how critiquing that venture makes a person "entitled". SCORE doesn't "owe" anyone a website. But the website sucks. They don't "owe" anyone coverage of the single largest event they put on which also happens to be the most important (by all RDC accounts) race in the sport, but their coverage sucks.

It's not about what SCORE "owes" anyone. It's about calling a spade a spade.
 

green787

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Fact: If SCORE struck an exclusive deal with CBS Sports to cover their events, then we are lucky to get George Anthill and SCORE Live...
 

ace_photo

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Classic strawman. RDC does coverage from South America, BITD provides realtime updates, you can even get SNORE realtime updates. No one is talking about a full blown live broadcast feed. The delicate sensibilities of the Roger Norman Mutual Reacharound Society are quite easily offended when pointing out the obvious. Instead of embargoing coverage they should be cooperating with the independents and hobbyists. A tracker, corrected time running order, some live updates here and there, social media aggregation, a few pics here and there, perhaps a short video clip every now and again, WM feed and an occasional interveiw from the main pit. RDC is already doing most of this, quite well I think.

The idea that the complexity and cost of doing this is prohibitive flies directly in the face of the facts. Though a lack of facts don't stop many here from posting an opinion, however uninformed. At least SCORE is not as combative as they were when Norman first started running the races. With cooperation and all hands rowing the same way you might be able to get enough money from a sponsor to deploy a flyaway sat rig or at least radios and repeaters so a pit reporter could call back interesting bits in realtime. Technology and cost aren't the barriers. The barriers are political and structural in nature. Norman's us against them advisarial attitude toward crowd sourced media is the issue.
Make it happen bro-
 

Bro_Gill

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Prich- SCORE is a RACE PROMOTER. Not a TV series producer, and radio show producer, a news organization selling fish wrap, etc... I have never seen SCORE promoting their LIVE, REAL, NOW coverage of off road racing as their product. Anything they offer beyond the promotion of actual races is simply whip cream, good, bad or indifferent. There are other businesses that produce live television, live radio, and internet broadcasts. Would it be safe to say that live internet ANYTHING still leaves a lot to be desired compared to actual live television production, even now? With that being said, exactly what, besides maybe a ticker tape running on the bottom of a screen, showing mileage markers car numbers have gotten passed FOR FREE would you expect as reasonable? Aerial footage, on board camera shots, and live pit action from various parts of the course. all uploaded to satellite and downloaded to a centralized production trailer for immediate editing and rebroadcast for your pleasure? That's the point. NASCAR does not pay for television in the sense that they buy the air time to play their races. They already have an established market with a captured audience and a venue that can allow such things with ease compared to attempting to do it on a 1000 mile peninsula with cars spread out over 500 miles and no real infrastructure to transmit and exchange data with any real instantcy and reliability. Did I mention the cat herding involved? It's a regional sport with a few outlying fans that does not have the marketing base needed to fund that type of production (yet) and may never have it beyond the next week 1 hour show type regional market type production. It isn't Dakar simply because it isn't. ace_photo knows this first hand through experience. Unless and until a SPONSOR, not the race promoter, is willing to risk what amounts to a middle six figure investment in this type of production with no real history of it succeeding, all based on a market that hits maybe 1.5 million viewers worldwide, it isn't going to happen. Nascar runs 5.7 to 5.8 million a week and that is considered poor to some in the industry.
 

blue dog

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If George worked for anyone here, and he performed as he does live at the score events, he would be in the unemployment line. are the powers that be blind ?
 

JDDurfey

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When it comes to the "live" coverage of races and TV broadcasting, all of us know that the number of viewers is paramount.

NASCRAP gets live broadcast in the utmost professional way. There are thousands and thousands of viewers every week who will sit down and watch start to finish including the commercials! That will never happen for a desert race. So maybe at the most a thousand people took some time out of their day to follow the B1000 this year. Why would a large production company sink the money into it if their is no one watching. With out viewers they can't sell advertising, with out advertising they can't make money, plain and simple.

NASCAR doesn't do the TV production. FOX and NBC do. NASCAR does profit from it however and they work together with scheduling start times and such to make it better for TV. So I don't expect SCORE to sink a bunch of the small profits they make into broadcasting a live feed that makes them no money.

As far as the website goes...that is a different story. It is sad they can't figure that out and not look like amateur hour.

On the licensing stuff....back in the early 2000's a friend I raced bikes with bought a few good cameras and started filming our racing. He got some film students to come down and help and they put some footage together. Some of which is in Dust to Glory of our team. (the only reason I can be seen in the film) Anyway, Sal told us that we could use the SCORE name and Baja 1000 as long as we always called it the "TECATE SCORE Baja 1000"
 

J Prich

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Prich- SCORE is a RACE PROMOTER. Not a TV series producer, and radio show producer, a news organization selling fish wrap, etc... I have never seen SCORE promoting their LIVE, REAL, NOW coverage of off road racing as their product. Anything they offer beyond the promotion of actual races is simply whip cream, good, bad or indifferent. There are other businesses that produce live television, live radio, and internet broadcasts. Would it be safe to say that live internet ANYTHING still leaves a lot to be desired compared to actual live television production, even now? With that being said, exactly what, besides maybe a ticker tape running on the bottom of a screen, showing mileage markers car numbers have gotten passed FOR FREE would you expect as reasonable? Aerial footage, on board camera shots, and live pit action from various parts of the course. all uploaded to satellite and downloaded to a centralized production trailer for immediate editing and rebroadcast for your pleasure? That's the point. NASCAR does not pay for television in the sense that they buy the air time to play their races. They already have an established market with a captured audience and a venue that can allow such things with ease compared to attempting to do it on a 1000 mile peninsula with cars spread out over 500 miles and no real infrastructure to transmit and exchange data with any real instantcy and reliability. Did I mention the cat herding involved? It's a regional sport with a few outlying fans that does not have the marketing base needed to fund that type of production (yet) and may never have it beyond the next week 1 hour show type regional market type production. It isn't Dakar simply because it isn't. ace_photo knows this first hand through experience. Unless and until a SPONSOR, not the race promoter, is willing to risk what amounts to a middle six figure investment in this type of production with no real history of it succeeding, all based on a market that hits maybe 1.5 million viewers worldwide, it isn't going to happen. Nascar runs 5.7 to 5.8 million a week and that is considered poor to some in the industry.
I find it increasingly difficult to have a conversation with you. I don't think anyone here has really advocated for any of the things you suggested here. Certainly not me. Aerial footage? Real time on board, blah blah...of course that's not rational!

I'm personally not talking about NASCAR or any other sport live tv type coverage. Here's what i"m saying....SCORE or someone on SCORE's behalf at least ALREADY has a live feed set up from the start line and sometimes the finish line. In my personal, entitled opinion, the commentary is laughable. No need for huge investments, live 1,000 mile coverage or any of the other stuff you've tried to stretch the conversation in to....how about we just use what SCORE is ALREADY doing and put a knowledgeable, experienced personality on there. Two hours ish on the front end, two hours ish on the back end.

DD is great to look at, I really enjoy watching her riding around on dirt bikes in a thong. And I'm sure she's a great person to hang out with, donates to charity, feeds stray cats milk, etc. But maybe doing the color commentary for the largest, most visible race the sport has to offer isn't the best choice. SCORE/someone is ALREADY doing live feeds, for free ish. Improve the quality of what they are already doing AND bring back reasonable access to the Weatherman feed so some poor guy in SD doesn't have to sit in his truck with the door open and "stream" it to the internet.

Pretty simple stuff really.
 

M_Solms

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I'm glad I got to enjoy the "old days" of desert racing. You raced for the adventure and competition and had no problem with the fact that 99% of the worlds population could care less about your racing. The scattered groups of people along the course cheering you on were great and finally getting to the finish to be greeted by your crew and a few family members. Monday through Friday nobodies signing autographs for the kids. Then wait weeks to see if maybe you got 1 picture or a mention in dusty times.

The coverage is out there now and it is great if you just spend a few minutes finding it. The live videos and pictures coming out of the desert now along with facebook and forum updates and reports is amazing. I don't see a problem.


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Bro_Gill

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"I find it increasingly difficult to have a conversation with you. I don't think anyone here has really advocated for any of the things you suggested here. Certainly not me. Aerial footage? Real time on board, blah blah...of course that's not rational!"

Do you even read the title of the column? Or just argue with me? It seems personal now. Every one of my posts has been about the original complaint. Someone complaining about something they got for free and it isn't good enough. Again, he is complaining about the free coverage a race PROMOTER is providing when they have NO OBLIGATION to provide it to the folks at home watching on the internet. That is the point. I also have to wonder exactly what you think would be adequate for free? See, I have been to every SCORE Baja race for easily that last 10 years and we have used folks at home watching SCORE's site as well as other free sites to see how we are doing or how others are doing that we are pitting for. Simple phone calls home or when we are lucky enough to be near a town, wifi when someone runs into town to get an update. AND IT WORKS!!! So I am wondering exactly what is missing from this free service? I can only assume it is something mentioned in my previous post.
 
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