SCORE CRB is a REALITY, 4 wheel rep needed

Chainguide

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A small group of racers and I met with Sal Fish of SCORE this afternoon to discuss the future of racing in Baja. We presented our general concerns and proposed several ideas which included many comments and solutions provided by all of you in the racing community. He was very receptive to our proposals. It was determined that the creation of a Competition Review Board (CRB) would indeed benefit everyone. The CRB will be assembled and immediately tasked to work out solutions in the following areas:

1. Provide clear and concise course definition and boundaries.
2. Devise appropriate formulas for assessing penalties for rules violations.
3. Address issues concerning tracking devices.
4. Source out a means to generate immediate results after the race.

We have a follow up meeting scheduled with SCORE the first week of August to further discuss the role of the CRB.
Thank you all for your support and input.
Who would you guys recomend to represent the Car Classes on a CRB?

-Andy Kirker
 

Dezertpilot

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I thought their was a CRB already in place?
 

racinteach

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no but i would love to be on it. I deal with kids and can parents daily(during the school year)hould be a pro. I am not racing cars right now, but have been in the past. I think this should be a non current racer, so no conflict of interest, but some one who is very much aware of the sport and rules.
 

BCG1

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>>1. Provide clear and concise course definition and boundaries.<<

It is already defined in the rulebook as 50 feet either side of the centerline. The centerline is provided to you as a GPS track. That is the rule. If you vary from that expect to get penalized. If you don't get penalized, don't take it as an accepted course variation but rather one instance that you didn't get caught.

>>2. Devise appropriate formulas for assessing penalties for rules violations.<<

Take a look at the rule book. GP3 There are penalties for all the violations cited at the 500 and actually, Sal was lenieant in many cases. Pitting in a restricted area calls for a DQ. Short coursing call for a DQ. Speeding calls for either a 2 hour penalty or DQ depending on the severity.

>>3. Address issues concerning tracking devices.<<

An area that could use some attention. Sealed, tamper proof connections, etc would be a start.


>>4. Source out a means to generate immediate results after the race.<<

Add $$$$ and that can happen. If you want immediate results, that takes manpower and manpower takes $$$. Way too many folks complain about the entry fees and then ask for more, more, more. Gotta remember that unlike other motorsports, SCORE gets ZERO revenue for the hundreds of thousands of folks who get to watch the race. Every additional action will cost the racers more money. There are many out there who can afford it. Many who can not.

There already is a CRB in place at every SCORE race.
 

Lucho

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>>
There already is a CRB in place at every SCORE race.
I think Reese King should weigh in on this since he was the last to head up the CRB. It's true that the CRB has not been heard off for a long time. On the other hand, while active, it worked quite well for many years and it proved to be a pretty fair tool for both the racer and the promoter.

I don't believe there should be a permanent group who heads up the CRB at every event, but maybe there should be a "titular head" who is in charge of asking three, five or seven individuals, BEFORE THE EVENT to sit on the CRB post-event to go over all penalties or challenges. The people on the CRB should be picked at random and perhaps it should include one or two racers, one or two aftermarket persons, a tire, car, “brand” person--basically a good mixture of people in our sport, revolving from race to race.
The concept, original started by George Thompson is a good one and one that has to remain fluid. The titular head of the CRB should be chosen every year, so it does not burn out that person. If you were to ask Reese (are you here Reese?), he just got burnt out, especially when at times CRB recommendations were not heeded by promoters.
I think that was short-sighted, because the CRB can take any argument out of the personal nature between the promoter and racer and can be operated on a fact-finding basis only.
 
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I think Reese King should weigh in on this since he was the last to head up the CRB. It's true that the CRB has not been heard off for a long time. On the other hand, while active, it worked quite well for many years and it proved to be a pretty fair tool for both the racer and the promoter.

I don't believe there should be a permanent group who heads up the CRB at every event, but maybe there should be a "titular head" who is in charge of asking three, five or seven individuals, BEFORE THE EVENT to sit on the CRB post-event to go over all penalties or challenges. The people on the CRB should be picked at random and perhaps it should include one or two racers, one or two aftermarket persons, a tire, car, “brand” person--basically a good mixture of people in our sport, revolving from race to race.
The concept, original started by George Thompson is a good one and one that has to remain fluid. The titular head of the CRB should be chosen every year, so it does not burn out that person. If you were to ask Reese (are you here Reese?), he just got burnt out, especially when at times CRB recommendations were not heeded by promoters.
I think that was short-sighted, because the CRB can take any argument out of the personal nature between the promoter and racer and can be operated on a fact-finding basis only.
I agree!

Need a CRB Marshall to select new board members each race. I have sat on a few SCORE CRB boards and this system has worked well. Reese hasn't even been to a race for awhile, a new Marshall shoud be selected each year or two.

Class Reps are not related to the CRB and should also be re-instituted.
 

RFS Motorsports

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>>1. Provide clear and concise course definition and boundaries.<<

It is already defined in the rulebook as 50 feet either side of the centerline. The centerline is provided to you as a GPS track. That is the rule. If you vary from that expect to get penalized. If you don't get penalized, don't take it as an accepted course variation but rather one instance that you didn't get caught.

>>2. Devise appropriate formulas for assessing penalties for rules violations.<<

Take a look at the rule book. GP3 There are penalties for all the violations cited at the 500 and actually, Sal was lenieant in many cases. Pitting in a restricted area calls for a DQ. Short coursing call for a DQ. Speeding calls for either a 2 hour penalty or DQ depending on the severity.

>>3. Address issues concerning tracking devices.<<

An area that could use some attention. Sealed, tamper proof connections, etc would be a start.


>>4. Source out a means to generate immediate results after the race.<<

Add $$$$ and that can happen. If you want immediate results, that takes manpower and manpower takes $$$. Way too many folks complain about the entry fees and then ask for more, more, more. Gotta remember that unlike other motorsports, SCORE gets ZERO revenue for the hundreds of thousands of folks who get to watch the race. Every additional action will cost the racers more money. There are many out there who can afford it. Many who can not.

There already is a CRB in place at every SCORE race.
Sign this guy up. He looks like a great CRB Rep!
 

harleys dad

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Sounds like a waste of time, it will only have the teeth Sal allows it to have. Follow what he says at the drivers meeting, its plain and simple! Ask Letner what penalties you get when you do that and you have no need for any of this non sense. The last time Score had CRB sometimes the biggest cheaters in the sport would sit on that inflated panel. Obviosly Sal had the frame of mind to knock the crap out of the results, CRB or no CRB. If you think you are going to somehow wrestle some control away from Sal because of a CRB think again, racing Score as long as I have has shown me that is not going to happen. It didnt then it wont now!
 

kras

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CRB is in place and I have seen Reese at many recent races including the 500. SCORE pays him to do the job and he shows up, selects a board prior to the race and is available for the hearing if necessary. Course deviations are recorded by IRC (we are to assume), and dealt with based on the tracker data. Selecting a new CRB Marshall will do what?

Tracker data review needs to be completed much faster...that's the issue IMHO.
 

mgobaja

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CRB is in place and I have seen Reese at many recent races including the 500. SCORE pays him to do the job and he shows up, selects a board prior to the race and is available for the hearing if necessary. Course deviations are recorded by IRC (we are to assume), and dealt with based on the tracker data. Selecting a new CRB Marshall will do what?

Tracker data review needs to be completed much faster...that's the issue IMHO.
Racers should also be made more aware of the CRB process so they can use it if it is needed. The same with Technical protests, how many racers actually know the correct proceedure / process ?
 

kras

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I think Reese King should weigh in on this since he was the last to head up the CRB. It's true that the CRB has not been heard off for a long time. On the other hand, while active, it worked quite well for many years and it proved to be a pretty fair tool for both the racer and the promoter.

I don't believe there should be a permanent group who heads up the CRB at every event, but maybe there should be a "titular head" who is in charge of asking three, five or seven individuals, BEFORE THE EVENT to sit on the CRB post-event to go over all penalties or challenges. The people on the CRB should be picked at random and perhaps it should include one or two racers, one or two aftermarket persons, a tire, car, “brand” person--basically a good mixture of people in our sport, revolving from race to race.
The concept, original started by George Thompson is a good one and one that has to remain fluid. The titular head of the CRB should be chosen every year, so it does not burn out that person. If you were to ask Reese (are you here Reese?), he just got burnt out, especially when at times CRB recommendations were not heeded by promoters.
I think that was short-sighted, because the CRB can take any argument out of the personal nature between the promoter and racer and can be operated on a fact-finding basis only.
Doctor Checker Speaks:

"OK, I'm confused. When I joined Sal Fish as SCORE's race director in 1985 one of my early priorities was to establish the CRB, based on the concept of peer review to handle driver issues and/or infractions. This program worked well, and to my knowlege is still in effect. The only change since then has been the addition of electronic devices to monitor driver's progress and/or course deviations. I tasked Reese King with the job of being the marshall of this group, and I believe he's still in the job.

Now what is this I read about meetings with Sal to set up a CRB ? Did I miss something?
-Steve Kassanyi"
 

Jorge Rodriguez

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how about Mark McMillin? Or is that a conflict of interest? He reps off road pretty well...
 

BCG1

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Sounds like a waste of time, it will only have the teeth Sal allows it to have. Follow what he says at the drivers meeting, its plain and simple! Ask Letner what penalties you get when you do that and you have no need for any of this non sense. The last time Score had CRB sometimes the biggest cheaters in the sport would sit on that inflated panel. Obviosly Sal had the frame of mind to knock the crap out of the results, CRB or no CRB. If you think you are going to somehow wrestle some control away from Sal because of a CRB think again, racing Score as long as I have has shown me that is not going to happen. It didnt then it wont now!
Which race are you refering to when you state :"The last time Score had CRB sometimes the biggest cheaters in the sport would sit on that inflated panel. Obviosly Sal had the frame of mind to knock the crap out of the results, CRB or no CRB. " ? What was the protest involved? Do you have the facts to support this claim? Sal has the balls to support the CRB decisions even when they have dire political consequences for Sal. Take the Pat Dean incident for example. Sal stood by that decision and it cost him a race sponsor.

Look into it further. CRB has been in place at all SCORE races. It is up to the racers to utilize it.
 

Tipracer

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This person should be nominated by the racers, with the mind set of keeping it honest...this same person should also not have a vested interest in the outcome. Part of the problem is that we need somebody who is at EVERY race, the big question is who is not racing AND who does not have any affiliation with any race team?? While I think Mark McMillin is an excellent choice he just happens to be a large part of one of the largest teams...Should that matter?
 

J Caster

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Now what is this I read about meetings with Sal to set up a CRB ? Did I miss something?
This isn't about setting up a CRB. It is about making the current CRB as noted in Score's rule book be more effective.

The CRB was not used at the recent Baja 500 even with all the penalties. Why not?

Because Score did something they haven't really done before and that was enforce rules more strictly.

If you are not going to be penalized until weeks after the race you deserve to have your case heard, weather that be pleading your own case or protesting another competitor. I was at the hotel the day after the 500 to listen to the CRB and protests. We were told there were no protests and would be no CRB review.

This is about racers working with Score to come up with a better system to use the CRB and make it more effective for both Score and the racers benefit. Every racer I have talked to support Score enforcing the rules. Someone mentioned protests above and how to use those correctly. With the current way the rules are written about protests and the CRB, they are no longer effective or usefull if the results are not known until weeks after the race. Somethings need to change to allow the CRB and protests to be used after the results are known to make them work. Currently protesting right after the race or having the CRB review the next day do no good if the results change a week later anyways.
 
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