SCORE...Enforcing the Rule Book? (Or NOT?)

teamgreen

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Quick Background: I've been lurking around here for years. PAB "reconnected" me with this place via the Rip to the Tip, this year. I've done plenty of racing and I've seen plenty of cheating. I work in the Motorsports Industry and I know all too well that...well...sometimes, it seems...complaining is a way of life; however...

A lot of you are posting your opinion(s) on Robby Gordon's "course cutting", "cheating"...and the latest..."Gas Stop on the Race-Course/Hi-Way" (Video Inclusive!)


Here's the Bottom-Line:

This "Stuff" is either Illegal -OR- It's NOT.

This "Stuff" is addressed in the "Rules" -OR- It's NOT.

A good number of you can/should/must take this to Sal -OR- You're NOT (As in a "Formal Protest', maybe? Has this been done?).

So, what gives...doesn't anyone, especially other competitiors, care enough to put an end to this stuff?


NOTE: Even the Moto-Gp guys have taken their sanctioning body to task...and they're a bunch of Skinny-lil-"Euros"!

NOTE 2: Is it true/possible/probable that (As implied in a few posts) Sal's NOT gonna penalize Robby cause of what he "brings" to the sport?

NOTE 3: This is an attempt to discuss the actual "issue"(s) in plain language and NOT have more of the usual "so-n-so sucks" and what-not.
 

01_el_tiburon

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the fueling rule states, that the car must be at a complete stop, thats all. So if he was gonna be DQd must be cause of a pitting rule, which pretty much is not policed. So what can Sal do ? Use Robby asa na example ??

nope

omar
 

teamgreen

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I see that the Rule Book is $30 for us Cali-Residents...

Anyone have the ability to post the 50' rule and other "Pit" rules and reg's?

What about the "actual" course cutting data(tracker) v. the rules (50' and/or otherwise)?
 

Racbaja

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Why don't you just change the name to: DA Crew and affiliates want Robby disqualified. Another lame thread.

Ron Plunkett
Plunkett Racing 557
 

kras

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Anyone have the ability to post the 50' rule and other "Pit" rules and reg's? What about the "actual" course cutting data(tracker) v. the rules (50' and/or otherwise)?[/QUOTE said:
“All pits must be fifty feet (50′) off the edge of the race course. No pit may be in the first fifty
feet (50′) leading into and the first one hundred feet (100′) leading out of any turn."
 

01_el_tiburon

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Pit rules:
gpt3 no following a race car or leading one on the race course
gpt7 no pitting within 300 feet before or 100 feet after a checkpoint
gpt8 pits mustbe at least 50 feet from the race course, no pit 50 feet before or 101 feet after any turn
gpt9 all pits must be done while at a comlete spot
 

teamgreen

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Why don't you just change the name to: DA Crew and affiliates want Robby disqualified. Another lame thread.

Ron Plunkett
Plunkett Racing 557

Actually, Ron, as you can see by most of the posts in this thread...this is an attempt to discuss the rules and whether folks/participants want to enforce them -OR- Not...

Also, as you might "note" (Note-3-, actually) from the original post in here...this is, also, an "attempt" to discuss this stuff without the usual opinionated blather.


I'm jus' sayin'...

Signed,

Manny - "Un-Authorized" Desert Assassin - Northern Division - Dirty Dirty 530

p.s.-PAB and his folks ain't the kind to go whining...they'd rather jus' go race.
 

pdailey

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Why waste the time and money printing up these rule books, and a waste of money for us buying them, if the rules are not going to be enforced? Sounds like we need a Baja rulebook (which obviously will only contain about 3 pages) and a regular rulebook. Sound good?
 

310Kid

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Great example from Nikal:



http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65009&page=8


Exactly!! If the 50 foot rule is to be enforced then almost every team including mine should have been DQ'ed at some point racing in Baja!And pitting on the road, well we have all seen this done before. I have seen many teams pull off and yet still have 2 left side tires on the black top. How many teams have pitted/fueled right after coming on the black top at Santo Thomas? There is not a ton of room there to pit and yet many of us have done it there. Heck years ago I helped fuel and put a new spare tire on for Rod Muller there once and he barely had the right side wheels off the road. If I remember right we had to stand completely in the road to fuel him.

One year I watched the Collins crew pitting at the bottom of the Grape Vine road, and because of all the silt and dust from the racers and general traffic going in, that their race trucks were stopping only feet from the actual race line to get their service. Oh and Collins was not the only team doing that either! We had pitted next to them and that's how I know this.

I have seen teams set up pits where their trucks and Ez-Up are less the 15 feet off the course. Heck, look at the pits at Primm. Are those 50 feet off the course? Go measure 50 feet and tell me that we all pit that far off.

And there was a comment about RG roosting some Baja Fools crew and video showing it. Well the Fools guys were pitted in a corner area. I guess any team using Baja Fools should be DQ'ed or penalized!

And let’s not bring the helicopter issues in to this! 500 feet off the ground! Ha Ha! There are many pictures from this last race to prove this does not happen.

This is all a joke! This is Baja, we all talk about how great the freedom of being able to pit anywhere and how loose the rules are compared to a state race, where we are told where to pit and how many pit passes we are allowed to have. Then we come on here and complain about how someone did something different then us.

If we want to start following the rules to the "T" then let’s start doing so, but dont complain or call someone out when it’s you that gets a DNF! Because your crew was too close to the road, or your race line was more than 50 feet off the actual SCORE marked course. BTW in the video showing RG roosting the Baja Fools it also shows Robby taking one line and BJ taking another over a hill. Both lines are more than 50 feet apart. Which line was the Score marked line? Also how many people have cracked a beer after you’re done pitting your race car for the day? Per Score rules you may not have any intoxicating beverages in the pits, the race course or on the surrounding premises by any person is strictly forbidden. So by Scores rules even if you’re done for the day, you’re still representing your team and if you are seen with an alcoholic beverage your team should be DQ'ed? How many teams have run chase or support trucks down the race course? It was mentioned on RDC that several top teams were running pre-runners behind their race cars at this 500. To me that is a bigger cheat then RG stopping on the black top and getting 11 gals of fuel. His fueling did not affect or impede the other racers on the course.

Just some things to think about.
 

teamgreen

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Why waste the time and money printing up these rule books, and a waste of money for us buying them, if the rules are not going to be enforced? Sounds like we need a Baja rulebook (which obviously will only contain about 3 pages) and a regular rulebook. Sound good?
I understand the frustration; however, is it possible to have a "Drivers Board" that consists of SCORE drivers, of a pre-determined standing (Seniority and Skill-wise...jus' thinkin' out-loud...from several classes...TT, prod & mod trucks-cars-buggies, bikes, ATVs...), that could/would meet with the SCORE officials and discuss this/these kinda things? (A Drivers-Board should have "A place at the table" for making rules, determinations...etc.)

Say...over some Garlic-Shrimp and Pacificos at a certain location in San Felipe?

I'm jus' sayin'...
 

pdailey

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I understand the frustration; however, is it possible to have a "Drivers Board" that consists of SCORE drivers, of a pre-determined standing (Seniority and Skill-wise...jus' thinkin' out-loud...from several classes...TT, prod & mod trucks-cars-buggies, bikes, ATVs...), that could/would meet with the SCORE officials and discuss this/these kinda things? (A Drivers-Board should have "A place at the table" for making rules, determinations...etc.)

Say...over some Garlic-Shrimp and Pacificos at a certain location in San Felipe?

I'm jus' sayin'...
I think that would be a great idea if Sal was willing to listen...........:(:(
 

harleys dad

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I am into my 35th year in this sport, raced my 1st race with Score in 1975, and have probably raced more Score races than anybody on RDC. NOTHING has changed except Sals Grey hair. Nothing will get enforced. It is beyond a joke to me. If I had a dime for every drivers meeting I have been to and herd every kind of threat possible about speeding-course cutting-dont take this line or else, secret checkpoints-mandatory drivers meeting that more than half miss after he says you will start at the back if you do not attend, you name it, I would be wealthy. You can 99.4 percent count on Sal not doing what he says he will do when it comes to course enforcement. It has bean this way for for well over 30 years, and it still is the same status quo. Your 2nd note I trully believe that Sal will look the other way when it comes to a few of his TT darlings, even though we all pay the same and nobody pays to watch. One thing forsure, the incedent at San Felipi was a abosolute no win situation for the protesting team or teams. First off, there was no film of RG off course, so no visual proof, but even if there was he could have said it could have been taken testing, I have witnessed this in the 90s, they filmed tire tracks, that was easy for Sal to get out of because all he would have had to say is those could have been made testing or pre running. Forsure not my first rodeo seeing this kind of thing. I have often wondered why Sal will not follow threw on what he says he will do. You can bring what ever you like to him, if you are civil he will listen to what ever you have to say and give you the answers you want to hear. You will walk away thinking he is really intersted in your problem, that you are on the same page, but if he is not willing to follow threw and enforce what he says, what is the use. I have known Sal since I was a young teenager, I get along with him fine but things he says he is going to do he needs to follow threw with. It is a little late in the game for him to change his ways.
 

teamgreen

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I think that would be a great idea if Sal was willing to listen...........:(:(
Never under-estimate the power of Garlic-Shrimp and Pacifico!
 

Kritter

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Any race using BFG pit support should be DQ'd by the 50 ft rule. I rarely see any body 50ft off teh course. usually one car width is about the norm...2 car widths is rare...50ft is unheard of.
 

ace_photo

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As I'm going through our photos I noticed a section that everyone who finished well cut. The first one who didn't was Letner.. And if we're going by the letter of the law he is our O/A winner.

So my question is if enough people cut the course in the same section does that make it ok?
 

HDRA1

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I am into my 35th year in this sport, raced my 1st race with Score in 1975, and have probably raced more Score races than anybody on RDC. NOTHING has changed except Sals Grey hair. Nothing will get enforced. It is beyond a joke to me. If I had a dime for every drivers meeting I have been to and herd every kind of threat possible about speeding-course cutting-dont take this line or else, secret checkpoints-mandatory drivers meeting that more than half miss after he says you will start at the back if you do not attend, you name it, I would be wealthy. You can 99.4 percent count on Sal not doing what he says he will do when it comes to course enforcement. It has bean this way for for well over 30 years, and it still is the same status quo. Your 2nd note I trully believe that Sal will look the other way when it comes to a few of his TT darlings, even though we all pay the same and nobody pays to watch. One thing forsure, the incedent at San Felipi was a abosolute no win situation for the protesting team or teams. First off, there was no film of RG off course, so no visual proof, but even if there was he could have said it could have been taken testing, I have witnessed this in the 90s, they filmed tire tracks, that was easy for Sal to get out of because all he would have had to say is those could have been made testing or pre running. Forsure not my first rodeo seeing this kind of thing. I have often wondered why Sal will not follow threw on what he says he will do. You can bring what ever you like to him, if you are civil he will listen to what ever you have to say and give you the answers you want to hear. You will walk away thinking he is really intersted in your problem, that you are on the same page, but if he is not willing to follow threw and enforce what he says, what is the use. I have known Sal since I was a young teenager, I get along with him fine but things he says he is going to do he needs to follow threw with. It is a little late in the game for him to change his ways.
i agree dave ! 100% i know of a promoter that had no problem DQ'ing someone big or small but he was one of a kind even after he DQ'ed them they still came back and raced

sal has always been about not having conflicts in after race issues
 
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