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Forum membership has its advantages....
$$$ score ?????
- Thread starter bubnel
- Start date
As everyone has said it depends on entries but here it what a 10 car will look to get for a win:
~$2500 for a race ~$2000 for the championship.
That will compare to $4k for a class win and $11k for the championship for PRO-10.
Now as I remember back in '94 for a Class 24 ATV race you were looking at about $1000 to win either a race or a championship.
Big bucks!!!!
Ben
~$2500 for a race ~$2000 for the championship.
That will compare to $4k for a class win and $11k for the championship for PRO-10.
Now as I remember back in '94 for a Class 24 ATV race you were looking at about $1000 to win either a race or a championship.
Big bucks!!!!
Ben
pciscott
Well-Known Member
Ben the purse is great but it is your own membership fee of $3500 you are racing for. We need outside money coming into our sport so you do not have to put in your own. Who will win the Toyota True Grit in class 10 this year? Danny and you got a nice fat bonus check from Toyota if other classes don't qualify it could even go higher. The answer to this wanting to race for bigger purses is to add $500 to $1000 to the entry fee of a race and have 100% of the extra money paid back. This could be optional on your entry form to not scare away any new guys out to have fun. The sport of professional off-road racing needs to unite or it will never be more than a hobby. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a sellable product to entice sponsors to help pay for our insanity! What about television or will you guys have proTV? The saying goes "Divide and Conquer" and this sport is way too divided!
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
martininsocal
Well-Known Member
scott-what is the difference if you pay into a side bet or you pay extra into a score entry fee? dollars to doughnuts that if you put 500 bucks extra into a score entry, half of it would go into the payback. what should we do? we race for our own money, with the rare exception of the herbsts, what race or series races for money that they don't pay into? that is exactly the problem. why do you pay sal 750 bucks to race for 200? thats about what the pay back is out of a 950 dollar entry fee. why is it wrong to have a series within a series? look at the current situation, there are too many classes for any sponsor to really pay back to every class any sizeable money. 14 classes @ 500.00 for a win, 300.00 for second, and 200.00 for third on top of regular payback would be great, but who is coughing up 14,000.00 bucks for an event? if there was a solid tv deal, it would be a no brainer for a corporation to plop down 14,000.00 for an hour or even a half hour of tv time. we have a hard enough time getting 1400.00 dollars out of sponsors. don't say it is a money thing, i bet fabtech spend 14,000.00 on a christmas party!
we have to do some remodelling of the sport to bring in the fan base and then the tv and then the event and series sponsors. and just what exactly is the laughlin c.o.c. paying score to sponsor that series? just curious.
If your gonna go, go BIG
we have to do some remodelling of the sport to bring in the fan base and then the tv and then the event and series sponsors. and just what exactly is the laughlin c.o.c. paying score to sponsor that series? just curious.
If your gonna go, go BIG
Jimmy8
Well-Known Member
You watch the entire 1996 Tophy truck series on video, and that is where we need to be. That is the best footage and commentary, and coverage I think I have ever seen for off road. Of course it was done by ESPN, but that is where we need to get back to. If we had that kind of coverage it would make everyone fans, and bring in the sponsors.
PMC Racing
PMC Racing
Scott,
Yes you are right that we are in part racing for our own monies but you forgot about the sponsors that are with PRO-10 as well. Correct our membership is $3500 but you didn't mention that with PRO-10 you have a chance at winning $32,000 for the year.
Tell me what series I can run a Class 10 buggy in and "invest" $3500 with the potential for winning $32,000?
Say I run all the SCORE races, which will cost me ~$950 entry per race x 5 = $4750. The most I would be able to win in return would be about $18,000. I'll take the PRO-10 payout. Not that this is mutually exclusive but when you say we are running for our own money how is it any different than in any other sanctioning body except that with the promoters it is not 100% payback.
The best thing about a "PRO" opportunity is that you can take it to whatever venue you want to race and have payback there.
Those in PRO-10 decided they were tired of chasing the SCORE series and not winning anything. If you add the entry on top of the SCORE entry you satisfy the "not winning anything" but we still are left with events that some are tired of running.
I think it shows with the vote for Parker and for a BITD Las Vegas 200. Class 10 guys want to go to other venues to race but needed the incentive. The "PRO" membership and organization gives a platform for that incentive.
Yes, I agree that all the PRO groups uniting as a whole would offer some benefits but the agendas that each group has does not blend well. Do you think that a ProDirt member has the same needs as a Pro1600 member or a theoretical Pro7 group? PRO-10 approached ProDirt prior to us launching and looked to join their group. There were some issues that I felt would not have made a strong joining of forces so we decided to go our own route.
I think this is a good idea though. Let all those in PRO-10 learn what it takes to work in a group such as this and the issues at hand. With a little experience under our belts and knowledge of what works for the "10" owners I think bringing us together is for the better.
All this will not happen over night so it is going to take a while.
Promoters need to recognize what impact these "Pro" groups have on their series and actively work to join with them. I can write a nice little piece that would prove that PRO-10 will have an overall positive impact on SCORE and do it with financial logic. Maybe this needs to be done because frankly I am getting a little tired of everyone stating that "PRO" groups are taking it out of the premier series sponsor.
We as a sport need about 40 other racers and individuals with the same enthusiasm and energy as you and I have and then 1 really good person to bring it all together and their will be change.
Right now there are too many that want change but when it comes down to making it happen loose seemingly loose interest.
Enough for my book....
Ben
Yes you are right that we are in part racing for our own monies but you forgot about the sponsors that are with PRO-10 as well. Correct our membership is $3500 but you didn't mention that with PRO-10 you have a chance at winning $32,000 for the year.
Tell me what series I can run a Class 10 buggy in and "invest" $3500 with the potential for winning $32,000?
Say I run all the SCORE races, which will cost me ~$950 entry per race x 5 = $4750. The most I would be able to win in return would be about $18,000. I'll take the PRO-10 payout. Not that this is mutually exclusive but when you say we are running for our own money how is it any different than in any other sanctioning body except that with the promoters it is not 100% payback.
The best thing about a "PRO" opportunity is that you can take it to whatever venue you want to race and have payback there.
Those in PRO-10 decided they were tired of chasing the SCORE series and not winning anything. If you add the entry on top of the SCORE entry you satisfy the "not winning anything" but we still are left with events that some are tired of running.
I think it shows with the vote for Parker and for a BITD Las Vegas 200. Class 10 guys want to go to other venues to race but needed the incentive. The "PRO" membership and organization gives a platform for that incentive.
Yes, I agree that all the PRO groups uniting as a whole would offer some benefits but the agendas that each group has does not blend well. Do you think that a ProDirt member has the same needs as a Pro1600 member or a theoretical Pro7 group? PRO-10 approached ProDirt prior to us launching and looked to join their group. There were some issues that I felt would not have made a strong joining of forces so we decided to go our own route.
I think this is a good idea though. Let all those in PRO-10 learn what it takes to work in a group such as this and the issues at hand. With a little experience under our belts and knowledge of what works for the "10" owners I think bringing us together is for the better.
All this will not happen over night so it is going to take a while.
Promoters need to recognize what impact these "Pro" groups have on their series and actively work to join with them. I can write a nice little piece that would prove that PRO-10 will have an overall positive impact on SCORE and do it with financial logic. Maybe this needs to be done because frankly I am getting a little tired of everyone stating that "PRO" groups are taking it out of the premier series sponsor.
We as a sport need about 40 other racers and individuals with the same enthusiasm and energy as you and I have and then 1 really good person to bring it all together and their will be change.
Right now there are too many that want change but when it comes down to making it happen loose seemingly loose interest.
Enough for my book....
Ben
pciscott
Well-Known Member
Martin the whole idea behind a sidebet is to collect the money up front so there are no hard feelings if someone does not send in the money after a race. If you had a box to check on your entry form to put up an extra $500 bucks then the promoter would pay back 100% of this extra money to the vehicles that got in on the bet. In talking with the Pro guys this was there main reason for forming, bigger purses. I agree outside money and TV would be great, but we need baby steps. Our sport is so fragmented and we need to pull together and build a future. How would you go about landing a big sponsor with the liability issues of off-road racing. My father is involved with some of the safety issues at SCORE. Sal spent $17,000 dollars on a helicopter with transport capabilities for the Baja 1000.
Dr. Dale a trauma Dr. who volunteers at SCORE and BITD saved a QUAD riders life at the Baja 1000. I'm sure glad he spends the extra money to have the copter in the air and ready to go, It makes me feel safer. Score also carries spectator liability insurance I wonder what this costs? Sal has been around this sport for 27 years and while I don't aggree with all his decisions he deserves our respect. Without a gate fee how can a promoter build our sport? The cost of Television slots on Speedvision just went from $7,500 per hour to $32,000 per hour. This does not include production costs. This sport needs an injection of millions of dollars to build it into a money making industry with purses and sponsors, where do we get this money. I also agree with you that we need fewer classes to project to a television audience, but we still have room for all these grass roots classes at the races. In Drag racing there are many classes, but only a few on TV. With over 10 promoters in off-road racing I would have to say none of them are getting rich. Dr. Dale thank you for watching out for us at the races I nominate you for person of the year!
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
Dr. Dale a trauma Dr. who volunteers at SCORE and BITD saved a QUAD riders life at the Baja 1000. I'm sure glad he spends the extra money to have the copter in the air and ready to go, It makes me feel safer. Score also carries spectator liability insurance I wonder what this costs? Sal has been around this sport for 27 years and while I don't aggree with all his decisions he deserves our respect. Without a gate fee how can a promoter build our sport? The cost of Television slots on Speedvision just went from $7,500 per hour to $32,000 per hour. This does not include production costs. This sport needs an injection of millions of dollars to build it into a money making industry with purses and sponsors, where do we get this money. I also agree with you that we need fewer classes to project to a television audience, but we still have room for all these grass roots classes at the races. In Drag racing there are many classes, but only a few on TV. With over 10 promoters in off-road racing I would have to say none of them are getting rich. Dr. Dale thank you for watching out for us at the races I nominate you for person of the year!
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
DougM
Well-Known Member
Who has that millions that Scott S. spoke about?
Stewarts, Herbsts, Collins, McMillins,Baldwins, etc. The big names & families in the sport
I kniow they give but since it a hobby and not a full time job, thats why I think the sport doesnt grow. Its a rich mans sport. Period
Stewarts, Herbsts, Collins, McMillins,Baldwins, etc. The big names & families in the sport
I kniow they give but since it a hobby and not a full time job, thats why I think the sport doesnt grow. Its a rich mans sport. Period
scott, why do you think there are so many promoters?. im just curious... not that im an expert on the subject but from what i have heard is that sal has pissed off a lot of people. I know score is like the ultimate in off road racing, but over the past ten yrs it has gone downhill in my opinion. i know it is because there are so many other places to race now that are much cheaper than score, so why would anyone race a score race??? it is not for the money. only the prestige? For example im sure that when whiplash scheduled parker for 2002 they looked at the date for laughlin and said ok if we give drivers two weeks time they should be able to race again. i think it is messed up that sal would even consider rescheduling on this date. i know he had pressure but it shows what he is all about. money for himself. not for the sport. and i think this is a time that all the drivers should band together and send a message to show who runs the sport... it should be the racers who are paying the money to race. believe me i love the laughlin race as a spectator there is nothing better than sitting on the hill watching cars go by ever ten seconds, but as a racer i think it is flat out dangerous to have that many cars on that short of a course with that much dust.. i will probably go to laughlin on sunday just to watch the tt trucks, but the rest of the race in laughlin will suck. i understand your issues with the "pro" concept but i think sal or score had their chance to do the sport good and they have not, so i cant blame the pro drivers for trying something new. i hope a message will be sent to score this yr that it is not all about them. i think the tt guys should do the same thing
pciscott
Well-Known Member
Bubnel you can thank Osama for the date change at Laughlin. The List of Promoters are, SCORE, BITD, SNORE, MORE, WHIPLASH, MDR, VORRA, FUDPUCKER, BORE, CODE,and there is also a Ramon Castro race this weekend from Ensenada to San Felipe. That is eleven off-road racing promoters not including short course. Times have changed in Score over the past 10 years, but we should not abandon the premier series in off-road racing. This in my opinion will hurt our sport. I hope both SCORE and Whiplash have successful races in January.
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
martininsocal
Well-Known Member
scott- the sidebet thing has been going for decades, just ask the mexicans in 5-1600. they have been doing side bets for years. the one thing it has done in the mexican series is increased "pro" racers running the lower entry fee sportsman classes and taking the money to the side bet. as for liability insurance, read the fine print. every entry at every racing series is paying for the promoters blanket policy for event coverage. as an individual, you can still be sued by who ever is injured and you would be on your own. unless the promoter was named, he wouldn't have to show up in court except to testify. you bring up a good point about the safety costs. the only employee at score, i believe right now is sal. the emt's. paramedics, etc...are volunteers and do it because they love the sport. getting volunteer safety help is not an issue, i work for one of the largest fire departments in the u.s.a. and there are plenty of folks who want to volunteer at races of any kind. sure the helicopter costs money, and even more in mexico. but as a safety provider, if i think you need a helicopter, i order one, you pay for it, whether your racing or just cruising to the river. mercy air and chp both provide coverage of the california desert and they will be there to pick you up if a ride is needed. no questions asked.
as for money and sponsorship, do you think wide world of sports paid to run the baja 1000 when they did? do you think nascar pays to have its shows aired? does the nfl buy time on tv to televise games? if you have a legitimate show that will pull in an audience, it will be shown on tv. if you don't, then don't market it. one of own, cameron steele, has blue torch tv. it may be some what underground, but i don't think he is paying out of his pocket to air it. if we have a decent program with interesting body to watch, we shouldn't have to pay to play it.
If your gonna go, go BIG
as for money and sponsorship, do you think wide world of sports paid to run the baja 1000 when they did? do you think nascar pays to have its shows aired? does the nfl buy time on tv to televise games? if you have a legitimate show that will pull in an audience, it will be shown on tv. if you don't, then don't market it. one of own, cameron steele, has blue torch tv. it may be some what underground, but i don't think he is paying out of his pocket to air it. if we have a decent program with interesting body to watch, we shouldn't have to pay to play it.
If your gonna go, go BIG
pciscott
Well-Known Member
Martin our sport is awesome to watch yet we still do not have good TV. Why is this? In my opinion ABC Wide World of Sports came to the Early Baja 1000 because of celebrities entered in the event. This was a one year deal why didn't they come back? Why don't we have more than one production company trying to market our sport?
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
God Bless America
Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
yes what osama did messed things up, but think about it sal could have told laughlin no. but of course it is all about the money they pay him to race there. to me he totally disrespected whiplash, the racers and fans by running it on the same day. like jimmy8 said in a post awhile back. sal has tried to ruin parker eversince he left the race. i think it is funny that it is going to backfire on him. but hey good luck in laughlin...
TROPHYSEDAN
Well-Known Member
Scott why do you race classes that take care of them selfs ,they put money into there own classes .like mini mag or speck trucks ,So what different does it make if we make side bets .I agree its time we do some thing about it .So maybe we can take our pro 11(TROPHY SEDAN ) to parker .Good luck in laughlin. I got a ride in the truck with Jimmy when he owned it .Thanks Dennis