SF 250 Vs KOH

McCredie A

Well-Known Member
The new Score schedule being released today. There looks like there will be some competition between events in early Feb. King of the Hammers recently mentioned they are looking to add Class 11, Spec TT, class 10 and class 1. So, it may no longer be just a TT race to the open desert crowd.

Dave seems to be up for the challenge, gotta love his attitude. What are everyone's thoughts? What event do you plan on attending? What are some reasons Score would change the date to then? Also, seems like there is not much room between some other events. Was there a benefit to changing the dates? Throw your 2 cents in.

Personally after a quick look I am bummed Score would change the dates to go head to head with the (or one of) the largest off road events. I like what Dave is doing and want to see his program continue to rapidly evolve. I love SF 250 (one of my favorites) but would prefer it in April when it is a little warmer. I think Score will make the 250 a qualifier the 500 to "force" the top guys to race it.

Side note: I have no dog in the fight. Just interested in hearing others opinions and keeping some Traffic over at RDC.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
I know nothing about any of this...but if there are rumors that there are potential location changes from the SCORE race (away from Ensenada?) then perhaps that would influence the dates they have to work around. No idea, just saying IF that were true, shifting dates might have been neccessary. I can't imagine SCORE would intentionally create competition for itself in the premier class just to see if they could.
 

michael.gonzalez

Well-Known Member
(no dog in the fight this year)

I plan on attending KOH, without a doubt. Dave knows how to put on an event.

I was hoping to spectate SF 250 or the 1000 but the dates don't look good this year. Maybe 2022.
 

dan200

#BSF200
Dave's events have grown in size. Dave's events have grown in car counts. Dave's events have moved to locations all around the USA and his squad is in Tennessee right now. Hes expanded into Canada also. And Europe.

Just sayin'...

If you need me I'll be at KOH.
 

stephenrjking

Well-Known Member
Im not worried about it. Ive got a race in Tennessee this weekend and SCORE hasn't hit a date they have set this year.

Competition is good. It will make us put on the best event we can. Racers, spectators, and vendors will go where it makes sense.

Bring it!
Hard to view SCORE's SF date as innocuous, but is it possible the early spring dates are chosen in part to give them flexibility with possible COVID shutdowns?

Still, Off Road is a great sport, but it seems like it's better if things don't conflict directly. KOH doesn't take away from SCORE, it grows the sport. SCORE still has the most important race, and if there are more fans of off road, more people will care about Baja.
 

Borracho Cantina

Well-Known Member
“Racers, spectators, and vendors will go where it makes sense.”

Or where it makes cent$. KOH $100k for winner of T1. Maybe even more next year?
SF250 turnout was WAY down until SCORE said finishing order was Baja500 starting order. DAve & KOH crew will find a way to come out on top. Love it.
 
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Anger Issues

Well-Known Member
I am sure I'm not the only one... who else noticed NO starting location for ANY races??? Hmmmmmmm Whazzup Roger? I would like to have a dog in the fight, but please move San Felipe back a couple weeks and PLEASE say only 3 races make a championship run?? If it takes all 4 my wallet is already biting me in the arse. Let me go on the record as saying Class 3 "point-to-point" Baja Mil could be interesting!!!
 

jon coleman

Well-Known Member
two cents eeeh?, really simple, looks like DC gives the people what they want, racers& spectators& Sponsors, , if you build it, they will come, ,, next
 

bajafox

Accepted
Correct me if I'm wrong:

KOH = Rock crawl racing
SF = Desert racing

Since when does it matter if they go head to head besides maybe spectator attendance?

I get that KOH now has some desert classes, if those guys want to race 10 mile loops with their "desert" cars to each their own. These are 2 very different type of events. Like comparing short track racing to NASCAR.
 

CHINOLAS

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong:

KOH = Rock crawl racing
SF = Desert racing

Since when does it matter if they go head to head besides maybe spectator attendance?

I get that KOH now has some desert classes if those guys want to race 10-mile loops with their "desert" cars to each their own. These are 2 very different types of events. Like comparing short track racing to NASCAR.
Bajafox

Here is a link to a Fishgistics video on youtube that describes the T1 Desert Racecourse,
I believe it had 2 courses one was 90 miles long and other was 40 miles long, all of it Desert not Rock Crawling, lots of what MDR used on other desert races, and believe each race car had to do the 90-mile loop, then the 40-mile loop and then again the same 90 and 40, a total of 260 miles.

Looks like fun to me, if they now have a Class 11 Challenge and also a place for us Class 10 drivers I will definitely be there.
 

stephenrjking

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong:

KOH = Rock crawl racing
SF = Desert racing
Accurate, but unecessarily specific. They are both "off road racing." Different disciplines, sure, but still under the same larger category, followed by largely the same community, drawing some of the same competitors.
Since when does it matter if they go head to head besides maybe spectator attendance?
Some people think it's important to draw spectators. Some of those people include sponsors who pay to have their brands advertised by drivers and vehicles, presumably so that fans will see them.

I'm not a driver, I'm a spectator, so I'm not the biggest stakeholder, but while short course and point-to-point desert are my bigger interests, I'm more interested in KOH, which is growing every year and a real bright light in our sport. (BTW, media coverage isn't even close--if the races are going on at the same time, I can watch every minute of KOH, while the SF at best will yield a so-so tracker and maybe Fish's hourly updates in a side window).

A rising tide lifts all boats. KOH success is good for SCORE. SCORE is good for KOH. We want more people watching more races. Right?
I get that KOH now has some desert classes, if those guys want to race 10 mile loops with their "desert" cars to each their own. These are 2 very different type of events. Like comparing short track racing to NASCAR.
So I'm no expert here, but there is a LOT of crossover, is there not? Some top trophy trucks have been driving the T1 challenge. There are the other classes being hadded. And the UTV segment is huge in both series, and my cursory scans have suggested that there's a lot of crossover between desert and guys who are giving KOH a shot in the UTV class (also short course--the Greaves have been coming, and in fact I'm hoping to ask them what the differences are in how they set up their Yamaha if I can catch them this weekend in Lena).

The events are different, but a lot of the people are the same. And that's good!

It seems simple to me: The NCAA tournament doesn't conflict with the NBA playoffs. College football and the NFL have no formal, legal obligation to not compete with each other, but one plays on Saturday and one plays on Sunday, and both sports are better for it.

Off road racing is a small niche. People want to grow the niche. More spectators, more advertising, more competitors, more entry fees. There are dozens of guys who try to race in multiple disciplines. There are thousands of fans who are interested in both. Better to spread things out.
 

Robin Hood

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I don't think KOH will pull away the top teams. How many T1s the last two years? How many were actually competitive and tops on Fish's list like it was suppose to be. Nothing against Dave or KOH, but the top teams have always boldly stated that Baja is the place to be.
 

class5cole

Active Member
I never want the Baja races to go away. In fact, I want them to thrive! That being said, spectating two hours from home, in my home country is well worth taking days off. Never cared much about the rock crawling but adding the T1's was a huge success. Adding more classes will make this amazing event even better.
 

bajafox

Accepted
Chinlas/Stevenking - Don't get me wrong, KOH has been on my bucket list for the last 2 years and would love nothing more than to go one day, unfortunately like most good things, it'll probably be too late by the time I get to go. What I mean by that is that the event will probably be too big and overcrowded by then (hoping 2022)

I chase for the #276 so my race schedule is mostly dependent on where that truck races, which has been 100% Baja since we picked the truck up about 3 years ago.

Robin Hood made a good point, what "big" teams showed up at KOH this year? I think they will most likely race the 250 for the reasons I stated in the SCORE 2021 schedule thread, the finishing order for the 250 will determine the starting order for the 500, same for the 400/1000. Most top teams I would assume have contractual agreements to race the 500 and 1000, and if they want to start up front in those 2 races, they will need to race the 250 and the 400.
 

stephenrjking

Well-Known Member
Chinlas/Stevenking - Don't get me wrong, KOH has been on my bucket list for the last 2 years and would love nothing more than to go one day, unfortunately like most good things, it'll probably be too late by the time I get to go. What I mean by that is that the event will probably be too big and overcrowded by then (hoping 2022)

I chase for the #276 so my race schedule is mostly dependent on where that truck races, which has been 100% Baja since we picked the truck up about 3 years ago.

Robin Hood made a good point, what "big" teams showed up at KOH this year? I think they will most likely race the 250 for the reasons I stated in the SCORE 2021 schedule thread, the finishing order for the 250 will determine the starting order for the 500, same for the 400/1000. Most top teams I would assume have contractual agreements to race the 500 and 1000, and if they want to start up front in those 2 races, they will need to race the 250 and the 400.
You're illustrating the point: it isn't a question of which event is superior. The issue is that people must choose at all.

Yeah, there wasn't exactly a huge field of T1 trucks last year, but there were some important names. KOH fans got to rub shoulders with them and watch their machines, which stirs interest in other trophy truck events. It's good for the sport.

There will probably be less this year. That's... bad, not good. SCORE is using its big name races to strongarm competitors the same way Tony George used the IMS to strongarm CART teams in the 90s, an action that resulted in the dimunition of both the Indianapolis 500 and the series. The tide fell for all boats.

There's nothing wrong with some people being SCORE-only. If that's your team, great. That's what works. But it's nice that a few have the option of running more races, getting more exposure, having more fun.

It's fewer races for competitors (because they can't do both), fewer races for fans to watch, and fewer trucks for each. It shrinks the sport.
 

bajafox

Accepted
You can rub shoulders with big(ger) teams at contingency at SCORE races also, even enjoy cold beers and great tacos. Not sure why that stands out going to a KOH race, unless you've never been to one in Baja.

I'd love to hear from Raul Gomez, he races both TT and Ultra but mostly Ultra before he bought his TT. This schedule would impact his plans I'd assume.

Competition is good, but I think in the end the "big" teams will choose the 250 and the 400 for the reason I listed.

Dave has hinted at a big money race for TT Spec at KOH and the owner of my team has shown interest in it. If we race KOH instead of SF250 then so be it, that's where I'll be, and with a smile on my face.
 
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