Should SCORE start TT Spec in front of Class 1 now?

Tom_Willis

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All it would take is for the riders to demand it. And then ALL emergency resources become available for them alone, for their entire race. Seems like spending one extra day in Baja to facilitate a safer event would be worth it 🤔
 

Josh 8

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It’s about burning all the score volunteers out. I do not know who many there are but I would not be surprised to find out it’s a small army.

How do you motivate them to volunteer 60 hours instead of 30? Plus where is the safety of having course works fried to that point? People would still be getting hurt.

And I bet they would just walk and then you would not have a race to worry about. So yeah, that’s the fix.
 
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Tom_Willis

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They all left SCORE around 2013. Including me & my crew. And when I started with them in 1997, most of those guys had already been there for years. Not one person I knew from then stayed on. BTW, I certainly wasn't making money during those 16 seasons.
 

Frye Racing

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I would guess it is the same for all organizations. Just a money thing sadly.

Why spend money for 2 days when you can make all your customers show up for just 1 day. Money is #1 and not sure what number safety is, #4, #6??

Money is the reason no one works on restoring courses after races any more unless they are forced to. For example Casey Folks did a lot over and above to fix the MINT course after a race when he had it and now they just do the bare minimum to get a BLM sign off.

Follow the money…
 

J Prich

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I would guess it is the same for all organizations. Just a money thing sadly.

Why spend money for 2 days when you can make all your customers show up for just 1 day. Money is #1 and not sure what number safety is, #4, #6??

Money is the reason no one works on restoring courses after races any more unless they are forced to. For example Casey Folks did a lot over and above to fix the MINT course after a race when he had it and now they just do the bare minimum to get a BLM sign off.

Follow the money…
Kind of diverged from the intent of the original conversation here but for the sake of clarity...

Not sure why you decided to take a shot at an org that has nothing to do with this convo but fair enough. No disrespect intended and no hard feelings but since you brought it up, it seems worth responding to. First, the Mint has been running two day events for like 5 years now. It costs more and requires more people. But it has happened to provide a safer, better race experience for everyone. It would be cheaper to cram everything into one day again. Even more complicated to run a completely separate moto course concurrently with the unlimited race, but we've done that twice now too. Maybe it's not just about the money.

Regarding post event restoration, I don't know what your experience with it is but I am comfortable saying that over the last few years I've had more than a little first hand experience with it and have raked and broomed a fair amount of Jean. Again no disrespect but I personally have worked directly with BLM staff and would not categorize what we've done as the "bare minimum". I can tell you that post race clean up takes a fair amount of time and a pretty good amount of money as well. Literally several days after the March Mint with heavy equipment (which costs money...). It included more than what BLM required.

No hard feelings like I said but you made a lot of assertions here that are factually incorrect.
 

Honda48X

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Literally several days after the March Mint with heavy equipment (which costs money...). It included more than what BLM required.
I take it money was up-front because I believe in the past the brothers never paid the tractor work. Right?
 
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Chainguide

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All it would take is for the riders to demand it. And then ALL emergency resources become available for them alone, for their entire race. Seems like spending one extra day in Baja to facilitate a safer event would be worth it 🤔
And just like that, you just doubled the cost of the event to accommodate 60 entries. hmmm, 2 helicopters with EMTs, all those ambulances stationed across the course, all those police and traffic control, all those paid workers and staff, TV crews, etc. The reason we moto guys get to be a part of these such prestigious events, is because the costs are spread over hundreds of entries. Did you know that there were over 600 course workers at the last Baja 1000?
 

B.HAGLE

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And just like that, you just doubled the cost of the event to accommodate 60 entries. hmmm, 2 helicopters with EMTs, all those ambulances stationed across the course, all those police and traffic control, all those paid workers and staff, TV crews, etc. The reason we moto guys get to be a part of these such prestigious events, is because the costs are spread over hundreds of entries. Did you know that there were over 600 course workers at the last Baja 1000?

There were plenty of places where the course met highway / roads that had NO ONE at last years 1000. Specifically after freds tractor trail, and out of the mining area with all that big equipment. And the next left onto chapala. Kinda surprising.

Not saying that they don't do a good job volunteering at the positions they were in.

I agree that the bikes should be grateful to be included these days. Especially with high level teams not competing. I would like to see more incentive for the bikes to compete.
 

Chainguide

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I am sure SCORE likes the added $ from the entries at each race but.... what if the bikes only raced the 500 / 1000 and the entries were much higher, bigger purse, more competition. Just tossing stuff around.
Let's not highjack this thread anymore than it has been already. Let's start another one or you may contact me directly through FB messenger or some other way. I love to hear ideas to help bolster the moto classes.
 

Frye Racing

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Kind of diverged from the intent of the original conversation here but for the sake of clarity...

Not sure why you decided to take a shot at an org that has nothing to do with this convo but fair enough. No disrespect intended and no hard feelings but since you brought it up, it seems worth responding to. First, the Mint has been running two day events for like 5 years now. It costs more and requires more people. But it has happened to provide a safer, better race experience for everyone. It would be cheaper to cram everything into one day again. Even more complicated to run a completely separate moto course concurrently with the unlimited race, but we've done that twice now too. Maybe it's not just about the money.

Regarding post event restoration, I don't know what your experience with it is but I am comfortable saying that over the last few years I've had more than a little first hand experience with it and have raked and broomed a fair amount of Jean. Again no disrespect but I personally have worked directly with BLM staff and would not categorize what we've done as the "bare minimum". I can tell you that post race clean up takes a fair amount of time and a pretty good amount of money as well. Literally several days after the March Mint with heavy equipment (which costs money...). It included more than what BLM required.

No hard feelings like I said but you made a lot of assertions here that are factually incorrect.
I apologize if you are offended.

The MINT is not one of the orgs that races Motos and cars on the same track. So not part of that discussion. Though as a racing org the other issues do apply.

The money issue related to Moto is congruent with grading IMO.

I am in the Jean area more than most. As I live near there. I am the vice chair of the Clark County OHV advisory board and work on keeping racing and OHV areas open in NV, as well I am a native NV that has had a mining company in Jean and drive Jean often to work on the trails there as well as help SNORE clean up after their races. Again sorry you got offended about the quality of your dirt work on the majority of the course. It has been an ongoing issue for years, I would even say before you started with the MINT.

Factually the area has not been properly taken care of since Casey Folks passed away. And with the added OHV use it consequently keeps degrading further all the time.
 

J Prich

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I apologize if you are offended.

The MINT is not one of the orgs that races Motos and cars on the same track. So not part of that discussion. Though as a racing org the other issues do apply.

The money issue related to Moto is congruent with grading IMO.

I am in the Jean area more than most. As I live near there. I am the vice chair of the Clark County OHV advisory board and work on keeping racing and OHV areas open in NV, as well I am a native NV that has had a mining company in Jean and drive Jean often to work on the trails there as well as help SNORE clean up after their races. Again sorry you got offended about the quality of your dirt work on the majority of the course. It has been an ongoing issue for years, I would even say before you started with the MINT.

Factually the area has not been properly taken care of since Casey Folks passed away. And with the added OHV use it consequently keeps degrading further all the time.
Not offended at all, just sharing additional perspective that differs somewhat from yours.
 
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Chris_Wilson

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Back on topic, here are the facts for 2022 so far in SCORE.
SF 250: Top 10 TTS all beat Class 1 winner, Top 17 TTS all beat Class 1 2nd place (and don't say it was a truck course, Armin Schwartz overalled this race in Class 1 not that long ago).
Baja 500: (should be a buggy course). TTS winner beat Class 1 winner (but it was close), Top 6 TTS all beat Class 1 2nd place.
And Class 1 cars are similar in weight to TTS so that should not factor into starting order.

Seems like it's time to change the starting order to move TTS ahead of Class 1. Will be interesting to see if this trend continues at the 400 and 1000.
 

BajaFand

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Just this week, Parkhouse Motorsports, Wilson Motorsports, and RPI Racing have worked together to come up with an exciting new development for class 1. Working the details and talking with the powers that be. Hope to make announcements soon.
By adding live rear axles?
 

9rocky

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Tom_Willis

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And just like that, you just doubled the cost of the event to accommodate 60 entries. hmmm, 2 helicopters with EMTs, all those ambulances stationed across the course, all those police and traffic control, all those paid workers and staff, TV crews, etc. The reason we moto guys get to be a part of these such prestigious events, is because the costs are spread over hundreds of entries. Did you know that there were over 600 course workers at the last Baja 1000?
This would never happen again. : SCORE San Felipe 250 Death in the Sands of San Felipe: Off-Road.com
 
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