SNORE Class 9 "Motor Claim" rule

[Lifeflight]

Love it. Just love it. I might be so called retired because i'm broke but would be out there in a minute if i could. I strongly feel the class should always have the claim rule. Corey smokes almost everybody anywhere he races. It's his total combination. Not just his power plant.
When Poncho claimed our motor in the very same desert the you all just raced 23 years ago, it wasn't because Poncho felt we were cheating. It was because our combination was faster than his over a very long period of time. Racing "back in the day" was super hard core. Way more intense then whats going on now in my humble opinion. He wanted to know why our car would outrun his. So he paid the $1000 bucks and we gave him our long block. He was now able to find out what we were doing, What made our motor buzz. This my friends is how this class works.
I keep reading this and most think this move was terrible. It might seem that way. I know if i lost my motor it would wipe me out. But that is the chance we take when we sign up to race class 9. Victor Torres has his "list" of all his parts he uses and i am sure he can put together an identical motor for Corey without too much worry. Does he buy super light wrist pins? Does he spend a hundred hours setting up his heads and doing his deck height just right. Only those two know. Just remember, lots of vw engines available on craigslist running for $1000.
All just my memories and opinions

 

[NINERACER]

Expensive parts don't make fast motors,they just last longer.
In this class you have to find the right setup to make a car fast.

 

[Ryan Schank]

Keep the claimer rule & price. The new rule should be if you claim a motor, you have to give your motor plus the cash to the guy or girl you claimed on. This way no one goes home without a motor.

 

[Hacha]

To Me this is just BS,claimed the motor just to take it out doesn't make sense, we all know Torres is a fast driver and father makes great engines and they are not new in the game like most of you guys and they had spend a lots of money,hours,days or years trying to be where they are , and we all know this days everything is so expensive and can't buy cheap parts anymore, even if you guys are doing your own motor can't do it for cheap, we tried to keep our motor in the low budget and didn't work and we have to pay for everything to be done in our car because when we started we had no clue about race cars and learned the hard way so obviously we have to pay top dollar if we want to have something good and well done, to me is not fair somebody who doesn't wants to pay or can't afford to pay a good mechanic just start claiming motors just because they don't want to see them out there, instead of doing that what I would do is spend those 2500 dls in my motor/transmission/or suspension to be faster and do what all fast guys have done......Do you homework and show the world your are faster and better out there but with your driver/prep/mechanics skills, in theory class 9 motors are affordable but in reality there is nothing cheap anymore!!!

 

[ACME]

I never questioned the claimer rule, just the price tag as a new case costs $800ish, machining from Rimco or anyone $300-500ish, RIMCO Case gussets welded with the RIMCO logo stamped on them that says RIMCO $150ish, then you have rods, crank-cam, bearings, Hi-Volume oil pump, heads, valve job, springs/vavles/rockers/adjuster, pistons/barrels, rings, windage tray, push rod tubes, hardware, gaskets and if the flywheel is included that and machining and the list goes on let alone assembly. I'd guess $2500 about gets you parts for a good motor and nothing else. Nice twist Ryan! - I like at least you get something for your coin!

A few additional thoughts:

-If you blow a trans every race you may need to learn to drive...
-Now you're whining that he beat you and you motor is "tired" as you posted and you're amigo is comparing your tired motor to his? Whaaaaaa...
-Racing is an expensive endeavor and class 9 is as cheap as it gets in the desert and the difference between a "LEGAL" $3k homebuilt and $8k Fat or brand X is the knowledge time and care given in that build. How many of you whiners have sat with a box of stock rods and a scale looking for the lightest untouched rod to balance the rest too? How many of you have balanced your rods/push rods/rockers/pistons or checked valve springs for equality. That's the difference between the two if you're using the same parts, so if you're cutting corners it's not a fair comparison...
-As for the 76 MPH motor Corey's must have been tired as well as a quality fresh motor from Torres in that car should be faster than that. Ask Poole, Burns, Creasey, Walters, Sheble, Kisner or any of the fast SP racers, I believe their top end was higher than this DP that should be better... I won't even go into the current cars with good motors...
-As for top speed being a guage of a wahzoo motor: There are very few places a 9 car gets to hold it wide open for extended periods, where you're getting beat is in the corners and hole to hold and maintaining speed in the rough. Where the hack built motors may lose to a good motor with comparable drivers is that the builder is constantly trying and learning new combinations to make the motor work better hole to hole and maintain the speed/torque so it's usable and that's why you pay for a pro built motor...
-Learn to drive and then if you can honestly say you made every corner correct and were flawless as a driver, and the car is perfect and you've revalved the shocks 30 times to see what's best and it's prepped and set up optimum for you as a driver and you have tried everything you can to make the car it's best; then MAYBE it's the motor or you're not as good as you think...

I had a friend named Brad Inch some may remember. He built his own motors, trans, shocks was constantly tinkering. One day I swung by and he had a box of @ 100 rods, a pizza and a gram scale while watching a Nascar race. I watched him for 30 mins looking for the lightest one... He also tried to build shock pistons etc... all trying to find an edge and he was the most budget guy I ever knew but looked at every detail. Some ideas worked, most didn't. Moral of the story is it can be done if one wants to and it's only your time and effort that makes the difference as there are no shortcuts. Edison found one way to make a light bulb but thousands of ways not too...

In closing: Toss the motor in your car and race against him and I bet the same guys waxing you will still beat you. Remember: Lessons and experience take time and cost money but making excuses is free...

Cheers!

 

[Shred918]

I think the content in this thread says it all. Someone is not happy because they want to race a budget classes but cant afford to be competitive. Racing is expensive in any class and that is the bottom line and if you cant afford to do it but every once in awhile then do what you can. You have stated yourself that you think the motor is legal..... sorry brother you put the egg on your own face. Your reasoning for what you did is flawed and wrong. I am sorry you feel like you can't compete with your budget and a lot of us probably do. We know that going in and go out there to have a great time without doing something like this.

Own up to what you did as being wrong!

 

[justplainnate]

This conversation went from 78mph to zero real quick....

I like the idea of having to pay the fee for the claim as well as having to give up your own motor.

 

[jsluder]

Just a thought! Brandon I am not saying your wrong but i'm not saying your right either. However after reading this entire thread i noticed you guys talking about how your not able to afford to build the "high dollar motors", but on the flip side you just spent $2500 to claim an engine that you could have upgraded your current "worn out" motor with. Just sayin.......

 

[scottys-misfits]

i'm saving my money for ridgecrest so I can get a fresh torres engine .just kidding i'm happy with what I have.

 

[Crowd Pleaser]

Just a thought! Brandon I am not saying your wrong but i'm not saying your right either. However after reading this entire thread i noticed you guys talking about how your not able to afford to build the "high dollar motors", but on the flip side you just spent $2500 to claim an engine that you could have upgraded your current "worn out" motor with. Just sayin.......

It's Robin Hood.........they did it for the everyone

 

[oma979]

ScottyA -will do I'll be sure to let you know everything done to that motor to level the playing fiekd


Sent from the RDC Mobile App. Get it for your IOS device today

So whats the big secret did you find what you were looking for ?
How did the speed test go ?
Lots of hype about this high dollar engine and now crickets. Could it of been the driver ?

PS Registration is now open for the Torres School of Driving space is limited so sign up early.
LOL

 

[Johnson954]

Just be thankful....when I started in class 9 (2001?) the claim rule was $500! lol! I like the idea of the rule, and I think it is wrong to be angry for a racer using the rule...it goes along with all the other rules...if you don't like it, don't race the class. I think it is a good reality check for those that are spending a ton of money to try and be the best. I do think that prices keep increasing however, and there should probably be a price put on a basic motor at the beginning of each season. If it had been me, I would have been proud to give up my motor, and I think Joel Mohr would have been proud too...it wouldn't do anyone any good, because for about the same price they could go get the same motor, brand new from Joel.

I can tell you that our car goes faster than 76mph (and not down hill), and we are heavy at 2000lbs with my son and I in the car. I would recommend Mohr Performance if you want as much horsepower as you can, and Joel can dyno the motor for you, so you can see just how good it is....and it will be a LOT less than a FAT motor. I will also tell you that at BAP, your motor is important, but there is a lot more to going fast.

We hope to see you guys in April!

 

[mrmatt]

After alot of thought on this matter.... I think that the claimer rule should stay but I think the cost should be increased. $3500 seems like a more appropriate number in my opinion.
I also kind of like the idea of giving up your motor though.

I very much agree with Acme...when it comes to spending money on a particular brand or builder a fair amount of what you are spending the money on is their time and research that they have put into figuring out what works best.
We build our own engines and I am sure if we had a dyno and more years of experience at our disposal we could get a little bit more out of our engines.

And yes....engine obviously plays a big part of the game but my personal experience is that alot of factors play into top speeds/etc... I have the same exact single port motor, same trans set up and same everything (other than shock valving) in the new car as was in my old car and my new car is faster than my old car especially in the flat stretches.

 

[T_Petersen]

I feel the motor claim rule is good for the class. It rarely happens, but keeps the power of money at a second guess. We try to stay as low budget as possible and that is the reason we run a single port engine, money goes else where to help maintain other moving parts. I also do feel that some motor guys should jump in on this and show their prices for a long block or maybe the guys that have motors built should express cost, but mention the cost of the long block alone. Maybe it will get a couple sales out of post. I checked with Car Craft of Riverside and you can purchase all new parts to assemble a long block from just under $2000 (including all new parts and new magnesium case) to about $3000. This cost does not include labor or assembly. Good guys and a lot of knowledge of the sport. They also do good work on transmissions.

As far as speeds, I have video of Heald pulling away from me at 69+ mph. I know this because I do have a GPS speedometer in my car. I could be wrong, but long distance speeds really don't have much to do with the motor, that's more of a transmission set-up I thought. I feel, a good power house will show its strength in the low parts of the gears. I never got the chance to see Torres or Young to compare speeds at Primm, but I do know Torres had a lot of clean air to go with his driving abilities and the only reason I caught Heald was because he slowed up by close to a minute one lap.

 

[Bro_Gill]

Man, keep the rule. As someone who raced this class back in 1990 and beyond, the rule has always been there. Always. Everyone knows about it. It is no secret. For those trhat weren't around when this class was developed, it was suppose to be a budget class, BUDGET. The intent was NOT to have high dollar motors. That is what the class has a claimer rule instead of a protest rule. When the class began, Savage said there would be no motor protests. If you had a problem with a motor, you could claim it, tear it down, and expose cheaters if they were cheating. And if they weren't, you got parts to work with! The intent of the claim was to keep folks from spending big bucks on 'stock' motors.

I remember very well when Pancho claimed Jim's motor. Lot's of drama, threats, etc... Pancho's engine builder was pretty upset over the whole thing, PANCHO'S ENGINE BUILDER! But Pancho never raced that motor, and he won plenty of races. He proved a point. Same one being proven now. YOucan either be a big baller with ahigh dollar motor and live with the rule, buy another motor and keep racing, or, you can whine and complain about the rule in existence and call the guy who worked within that rule names because he followed them and maybe, just maybe, you or someone else didn't. IT'S THE RULE!

As far as quality goes, there were plenty of builders who put together reliable motors for cheap. They just didn't come with a fancy red paint job. Now, I will agree that the orginal claim price (yes it was 500 bucks!) is a bit short, but I don't think 2500 plus the buyers block is that out of the question. All those that are complaining about the rule being in existence need to race in another class where it doesn't exist. Don't complain about a rule you know is there when it is enforced as per the class definition. Everyone buy everyone else's motor and keep racing.

 

[ACME]

Again: I have no issue with the rule at all, but totally disagree with limiting bulders and all the whining about pro-built motors etc... as the sport and costs have escalated over the years and the: $500, $2500 price tags will not even cover the expense for a DIY'r doing it right. And if you think there are guys aka "Pro Builders" that can buy $2200 in parts and then take the time and use the knowledge they've learned and do it all including machine work, welding cases and gussets etc... for under $2500; then Obahamanomics must be working! The reality is, it's right at $2k-2300 for parts depending on what you buy from who. As for comparing it to 1990 I'm sure someone can scan a good old Johnnies Speed & Chrome ad and see that a case back then was probably $199 or so compared to a new $700 case the last time we bought one; and how much does a cam and set of pistons/barrels cost comparatively? Heck, I bet if you compared a Saco rack to a Wright, then vs now you'd be shocked... As for the class never having pro builders participating: guess again. In 1989-91 I believe ABOCO where Victor Torres learned to build motors was the SNORE engine builder of the year and a majority of the go-fast SNORE guys had them. I also know a bunch of the La Rana guys had Riffle, Major, FAT, Wiks and others building their motors. For as long as there have been 2 guys competing in a contest of speed: expenditure and commitment have been a factor. Again, no issue with the rule but make it realistic and then roll the dice. But don't use it as the excuse why you lose. Official thread pic: "You Get What You Pay For!"

 

[9rocky]

I am just glad that Joel Mohr no longer has to wear the crown of thorns as the last motor claimer.

Carry on...

 

[Mohr]

Actually, it was '96...Dan Owen was 2001....I was just driving for him...I had NOTHING else to do with it....He had a vandetta against Kisner for ramming him at the race before...

 

[9rocky]

Actually, it was '96...Dan Owen was 2001....I was just driving for him...I had NOTHING else to do with it....He had a vandetta against Kisner for ramming him at the race before...

Oops, sorry Joel. I remember you being connected to the event. My bad.

 

[Crowd Pleaser]

Again: I have no issue with the rule at all, but totally disagree with limiting bulders and all the whining about pro-built motors etc... as the sport and costs have escalated over the years and the: $500, $2500 price tags will not even cover the expense for a DIY'r doing it right. And if you think there are guys aka "Pro Builders" that can buy $2200 in parts and then take the time and use the knowledge they've learned and do it all including machine work, welding cases and gussets etc... for under $2500; then Obahamanomics must be working! The reality is, it's right at $2k-2300 for parts depending on what you buy from who. As for comparing it to 1990 I'm sure someone can scan a good old Johnnies Speed & Chrome ad and see that a case back then was probably $199 or so compared to a new $700 case the last time we bought one; and how much does a cam and set of pistons/barrels cost comparatively? Heck, I bet if you compared a Saco rack to a Wright, then vs now you'd be shocked... As for the class never having pro builders participating: guess again. In 1989-91 I believe ABOCO where Victor Torres learned to build motors was the SNORE engine builder of the year and a majority of the go-fast SNORE guys had them. I also know a bunch of the La Rana guys had Riffle, Major, FAT, Wiks and others building their motors. For as long as there have been 2 guys competing in a contest of speed: expenditure and commitment have been a factor. Again, no issue with the rule but make it realistic and then roll the dice. But don't use it as the excuse why you lose. Official thread pic: "You Get What You Pay For!"

Well said Kingpin............Love the "official thread pic..bwaaaaaaahhhhhhh