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On Topic So, where are we supposed to race now?

#1
Yesterday was pretty depressing. I know that people who know more than me are saying that the fight is not over yet but we certainly took a big hit last night. Comments I read yesterday on social media from those who "know how these thing really work" did not do much to raise my spirits. Even the guys who know about the back up plans/permits that BITD always had if they ever lost a race permit at the last minute seemed to be short of ideas.

Obviously developers/big tax revenue/big business are going to bring in more money than what we bring into Jean. I get it.

When Roger bought HDRA and tried to move us onto his private land he explained to me that he thought racing on private land was the future of the sport. That all the government hoops were exhausting/political/expensive. Private land is where we will end up.

When I began to see groups like MORE and SNORE sort of "share permits" to have events I was excited to see the organizations work together to make things happen. I've always been bothered at the perceived notion that racing orgs dont really cooperate with each other. There has to be some cooperation but all of thaem have never formed a united front that I have ever noticed.

Now, as a guy who goes to almost every race and drives thousands of miles a year on highways going past what looks like millions of miles or dirt that would be fun to race on, I am lost.

If/when Jean goes away, where do we go? Do the small series promoters like we have in Texas and Arizona become the alternatives? Private land? Rockypoint MX?
 
#2
Yesterday was pretty depressing. I know that people who know more than me are saying that the fight is not over yet but we certainly took a big hit last night. Comments I read yesterday on social media from those who "know how these thing really work" did not do much to raise my spirits. Even the guys who know about the back up plans/permits that BITD always had if they ever lost a race permit at the last minute seemed to be short of ideas.

Obviously developers/big tax revenue/big business are going to bring in more money than what we bring into Jean. I get it.

When Roger bought HDRA and tried to move us onto his private land he explained to me that he thought racing on private land was the future of the sport. That all the government hoops were exhausting/political/expensive. Private land is where we will end up.

When I began to see groups like MORE and SNORE sort of "share permits" to have events I was excited to see the organizations work together to make things happen. I've always been bothered at the perceived notion that racing orgs dont really cooperate with each other. There has to be some cooperation but all of thaem have never formed a united front that I have ever noticed.

Now, as a guy who goes to almost every race and drives thousands of miles a year on highways going past what looks like millions of miles or dirt that would be fun to race on, I am lost.

If/when Jean goes away, where do we go? Do the small series promoters like we have in Texas and Arizona become the alternatives? Private land? Rockypoint MX?
well lest see. across hoover damn, in AZ is the white hills area. Lots of room for racing there and I bet the racing world would be welcomed.

Parhump is still there, and areas beyond up towards Beatty. Apex north of Vegas is still there. Caliente is still there. there is plenty of places to race that I bet we would be welcome, Searchlight for another example. While not as convenient as Jean, being close to Vegas.....is a bummer...but its not like the racing community is being evicted from Nevada.

sadly its just Murphys golden rule......that is HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES and racing is small change compared to the developer's and other land use interests.
 
#4
well lest see. across hoover damn, in AZ is the white hills area. Lots of room for racing there and I bet the racing world would be welcomed.

Parhump is still there, and areas beyond up towards Beatty. Apex north of Vegas is still there. Caliente is still there. there is plenty of places to race that I bet we would be welcome, Searchlight for another example. While not as convenient as Jean, being close to Vegas.....is a bummer...but its not like the racing community is being evicted from Nevada.

sadly its just Murphys golden rule......that is HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES and racing is small change compared to the developer's and other land use interests.
CaltechIPAC.jpg
 

ndvalium

Rescue Director
#8
Yesterday was pretty depressing. I know that people who know more than me are saying that the fight is not over yet but we certainly took a big hit last night. Comments I read yesterday on social media from those who "know how these thing really work" did not do much to raise my spirits. Even the guys who know about the back up plans/permits that BITD always had if they ever lost a race permit at the last minute seemed to be short of ideas.

Obviously developers/big tax revenue/big business are going to bring in more money than what we bring into Jean. I get it.

When Roger bought HDRA and tried to move us onto his private land he explained to me that he thought racing on private land was the future of the sport. That all the government hoops were exhausting/political/expensive. Private land is where we will end up.

When I began to see groups like MORE and SNORE sort of "share permits" to have events I was excited to see the organizations work together to make things happen. I've always been bothered at the perceived notion that racing orgs dont really cooperate with each other. There has to be some cooperation but all of thaem have never formed a united front that I have ever noticed.

Now, as a guy who goes to almost every race and drives thousands of miles a year on highways going past what looks like millions of miles or dirt that would be fun to race on, I am lost.

If/when Jean goes away, where do we go? Do the small series promoters like we have in Texas and Arizona become the alternatives? Private land? Rockypoint MX?
But in the end even Roger, determined that land development is a far more lucrative endeavor.

For a substantial size race, it will be outside Clark County if the Jean area goes away. When you look at the size loops, we are already pushing the course beyond its capability with 200+ racers on it at a time. 2 wide starts, on 30 second intervals takes over hour and a half for a start now. That as you know puts slower classes in front of leaders as they come around on their next lap. Bring back land rush by class starts and we can go smaller - may only have 6 finishers at the end of turn 1 though also...

The Dust Control (which still confuses me) that submitted this recommendation for this land, even admitted it wont be available in this size. Utah has some great land and more importantly an internal push for more use in their lands. Andrew Blood is convinced he has a good size course in Colorado available. Texas may be a great opportunity as well.

Obviously Off Road will not go away. Off Road Racing will not go away in Nevada or the US. we will just have to reinvent and get creative again on how to manage it.

I mentioned it on my Facebook, and Ill reiterate it here: Off Roaders need to stop becoming reactionary members of the political environment. We have millionaires to guys filling pot holes and should be utilizing every connection we have at the County, State, and Federal level. we should be wine and dining all the time. We have Casino Executives, Athletes, Movie Stars and even other elected officials that race with us. We should be strengthening whatever we can. The support of the off road groups is good but on something like this, we should have had a high dollar lobby firm helping us.

I know from an emotional stand point we all wanted to talk like Lucas but that does not help this situation in anyway whatsoever. I know it was already a done deal before we got there as this wasn't a decision making process. That was already completed. But we could have damaged even more in the future especially to someone that will likely win the Governor race since Clark and Washoe Counties are still active Democratic areas that control what the remainder of the State is stuck with.

well lest see. across hoover damn, in AZ is the white hills area. Lots of room for racing there and I bet the racing world would be welcomed.

Parhump is still there, and areas beyond up towards Beatty. Apex north of Vegas is still there. Caliente is still there. there is plenty of places to race that I bet we would be welcome, Searchlight for another example. While not as convenient as Jean, being close to Vegas.....is a bummer...but its not like the racing community is being evicted from Nevada.

sadly its just Murphys golden rule......that is HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES and racing is small change compared to the developer's and other land use interests.
Pahrump is a challenge on land these days due to a frog no one has seen, a pupfish that lives in a spring, a tortise, and a few political issues. We can get some permits there but even for a moderate sized race, the ability to support is stretched thin. The BITD event there has roughly 150-200 entries and all rooms are sold out and food places cant handle the volume. Bigger events would be a stretch. Is it a back up, yes and a reason everyone maintains positive relationships with them.

Apex is not there - part of this was additional land to the Natives who already control the majority of the land. Yes you may be able to reach a deal with the tribal representatives, but like all tribal land that is at will and challenging to count on year after year.

Caliente and all of Lincoln County is a great place to race but current regulations limit the permit process to just 2 permits per year for a 4-wheel competitive event. I know as Donald is a Lincoln County Native along with his entire family there, we would love to be there more often. Heck I would live there if I could! but the permit process on the Fed side needs to change.

Other areas you mentioned have some limits due to the protected and areas of critical concern that are already identified by BLM. For instance from El Dorado Dry Lake, to Searchlight, is a critical area with no permits offered. The Az side, I am not sure. I have not done much there over the years. But I am not sure there are many areas for 100+ mile courses.

Absolutely. Come out of Paris de Noche at 3am and get a Lil too friendly with the “girl” who thinks you’re cute.


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Screw that - I hear there are Dinosaurs there these days - I will not become a Jurrassic Statistic
 

JDDurfey

Well-Known Member
#9
The West Texas desert is large. Lots of room, but it is almost all privately owned. With the right connections races could be held here. The Texana ranch that TDRA uses is a beautiful area, but would not accommodate a BITD race. But there are areas farther west that could.
 

desertspeed

Well-Known Member
#10
Has anyone explored racing in the Arizona Strip area (the area just south of St. George all the way south to the Grand Canyon)? I know that there are MC races in the area, but I wonder if it would be possible to hold 4-wheel races there. St. George has the hospitality infrastructure to host events, and there are hundreds of square miles of open BLM land in the "strip". Currently its all smooth fire roads, and there are some cattle ranches that would need to be worked around, but that could be a possibility.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
#11
I always laugh when I see posts about races that have to have hotels, casinos, etc... There were races with over 200 entrants run in the 1980s where there were NO ROOMS. Hell, how many folks stay in a hotel/motel when there is a race in Lucerne? Plenty of places to race out there, you just won't be pampered. And for those that don't know, when any public agency finally posts that they are going to have 'scoping meetings' for the public to view the possible plans and there is a desired alternative? Yeah, the decision has already been dealt with and now they are jumping through the hoops to make it legal.
 

JrSyko

Jerry Maguire
#12
Dan - I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this may in the long run be a good thing for the sport for a couple of reasons. One people are tired of racing in those areas, the courses are hammered and its the same old thing every year. While it is more convenient given its proximity the area between Primm and Vegas and even north to Apex is doomed. As Vegas continues to sprawl further and further into the desert those lands are going to be lost. I suspect in my lifetime eventually it'll be strip malls and houses from Primm to Vegas. This is going to force promoters to actively start seeking new areas to race in new locations. I feel the sport had hit a patch of complacency in where races were being run. Sure there was always talk about racing in a new area but for the last couple years its been the same areas and same courses. The current crop of promoters will have to either get to work and adapt of new promoters in new areas will spring up and offer alternatives that could be even better than we currently have. I know of some beautiful areas in Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado etc that would be awesome to race on. That could in turn open the sport up to new audiences by growing it outside its Southwest Regional roots. Do I like what's happening? Of course not but don't think it spells the end of racing I think it will force some needed change by spurring a fresh approach to where and how we are holding races which in the long run could be a boost for the sport.
 

AZ7000'

Well-Known Member
#13
I am a member of a singletrack MC club in AZ. Smart guys started this over 30 years ago when the winds began to blow in an unfavorable direction. Through 30+ years of volunteering, partnerships, and involvement we were Named National Off-Highway Vehicle Conservation Council’s best OHV club of the year. We consistently have more volunteers then mtn bikers or hikers working on non motorized trails. Presently in the process of opening 60+ miles of singletrack and an additional 60+ miles of 50" trail with grant money hiring companies to dig! A good amount is being built to USFS racing guidelines and we have sponsored races and got great reports and feedback from the Forest Service, our "partner" in our public lands.

Yes 120 miles of 50" and single track is different then 100's of miles to race with 100's of entries. As Dave wrote above it isn't something you show up at the end of the process, speak a meeting and expect to be taken seriously, especially against developers.
Off Roaders need to stop becoming reactionary members of the political environment. We have millionaires to guys filling pot holes and should be utilizing every connection we have at the County, State, and Federal level. we should be wine and dining all the time. We have Casino Executives, Athletes, Movie Stars and even other elected officials that race with us. We should be strengthening whatever we can. The support of the off road groups is good but on something like this, we should have had a high dollar lobby firm helping us.
It can be done, the racers and orgs need to introduce the solutions, not just fight on the defense after plans proposed by others aren't what we want and basically set. It can and is being done.
 

FORERacing

Well-Known Member
#14
The fat lady has not sung yet.. If half as many people filled out the opposition contact form that participated in the MINT we would be racing for the next 100 years in Jean. People need to take an active interest in the land that they race on. Its easy for most folks to just show up to a race and then go home. Writing to your senator takes two minutes out of your day and could make a huge impact.

Please take the time to Fill out the contact form www.heller.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact-form use 89030 if you need a Nevada zip .

The next step is for their proposed bill to be finalized by staff so it can be handed over to their congressional delegates so they can introduce it has a bill before Congress. We can contact Nevada Senators to let them know we are OPPOSED to losing any more OHV recreational areas in Nevada and should say NO to any proposed legislation that comes before them. We HAVE the power but we must get all OHV people to stand up!
 

Chris Tobin

Well-Known Member
#15
I've heard rumors of some of the RPM Offroad team wanting/hoping to set up a race in Tennessee or Virginia on old Coal Mining land... That would be great for me, but most SoCal/South West guys wouldn't like it...
 

Fourstroker

Well-Known Member
#16
I always laugh when I see posts about races that have to have hotels, casinos, etc... There were races with over 200 entrants run in the 1980s where there were NO ROOMS. Hell, how many folks stay in a hotel/motel when there is a race in Lucerne? Plenty of places to race out there, you just won't be pampered. And for those that don't know, when any public agency finally posts that they are going to have 'scoping meetings' for the public to view the possible plans and there is a desired alternative? Yeah, the decision has already been dealt with and now they are jumping through the hoops to make it legal.
You would be amazed at how many people stay in rooms in Barstow for a Lucerne race. Seems crazy to me to but even the local races have less and less camping like we used to see.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
#17
From experience, I can tell you what happens when there is a large counter move about land use planning from what the Gov't wants to do. They stop, wait a while, then start over to try and get to the same goal. They did it with WEMO, but now they had the advantage of using the maps created by the previous WEMO planning group to eliminate many of the routes before the new planning/scoping meetings happened. USFS has done the same thing in Region 5 when shutting down routes. They eliminate or make illegal any route they want closed ahead of time, then, when land truthing happens, those routes are not on the new maps. Unfortunately, Public Land Use was killed a few decades ago when Alan 'the Cadaver' Cranston died and Feinstein gave his dead body the desert closure he had been trying to get passed for years with no luck. At that point, land use decisions were taken away from the public and the deals are all done in closed rooms now. The public just believes that their comments count and the meetings actually mean something. They are all done simply bexcause the law calls for them to happen. How do you think they always come up with a most desired alternative before any public input is made and that always seems to get picked?
 

Mike321

Well-Known Member
#20
I've heard rumors of some of the RPM Offroad team wanting/hoping to set up a race in Tennessee or Virginia on old Coal Mining land... That would be great for me, but most SoCal/South West guys wouldn't like it...
I don't think there are any West Coast racers that wouldn't like it. It's just a logistics and a money thing to transport the circus to TN. They should do this for UTVs in that area!
 
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