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On Topic So, where are we supposed to race now?

y2kbaja

Well-Known Member
#22
Anyone watch the mini-series that started on Paramount Network, "Yosemite" with Kevin Costner? It's all about land use issues. I was so aggravated at the end of the show just thinking about how it really is.
 

43mod

Well-Known Member
#23
Do you guys realize 1/2 or more the BITD racers cry about having to drive home after a V to R race ? Anything beyond Vegas starting line is going to drop 25% of entries at least. Texas is only going to happen with Texans as the vast majority . Also good luck getting a hotel room. they are already full of welders and rig hands.
 

spalind

Well-Known Member
#24
Do you guys realize 1/2 or more the BITD racers cry about having to drive home after a V to R race ? Anything beyond Vegas starting line is going to drop 25% of entries at least. Texas is only going to happen with Texans as the vast majority . Also good luck getting a hotel room. they are already full of welders and rig hands.

Ahhh...now you guys are getting a taste of what we stage ralliests have to do out East...it is perfectly normal for us to drive 12+ hours to get to the start of a race that lasts only 120 miles at best...Don't let this be YOUR future...
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
#25
The thing to ask is, with so many racer, spectators, manufacturers, industry employees and interested parties: How come so few signatures on the petition that spurred this thread? In looking at the names signed on the list, there were very few from the upper class racers or industry suppliers that could possibly motivate the herd...

Sadly it's pretty much S.O.P. for the community.
 

sb4pro

Well-Known Member
#26
The thing to ask is, with so many racer, spectators, manufacturers, industry employees and interested parties: How come so few signatures on the petition that spurred this thread? In looking at the names signed on the list, there were very few from the upper class racers or industry suppliers that could possibly motivate the herd...

Sadly it's pretty much S.O.P. for the community.
Yeah I can’t figure that out I’m all the way over here on the east coast and I even signed it.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
#27
Because many of us have been at this a long time and see areas disappear and I have never seen these petitions make any difference at all. I have been to meetings and seen that just delay things but eventually they win.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
#28
The thing to ask is, with so many racer, spectators, manufacturers, industry employees and interested parties: How come so few signatures on the petition that spurred this thread? In looking at the names signed on the list, there were very few from the upper class racers or industry suppliers that could possibly motivate the herd...

Sadly it's pretty much S.O.P. for the community.
Frankly online petitions are the least practical influencers in the process. Not absolving people of their responsibility to get involved, but if we're going to implose those folks to pitch in there are much better ways they could be influencing the conversation than signing an online petition. Whether it was 100 or 10,000, I am willing to be a lot of money that not a single member of the County Commission ever say it and even if they did, it wouldn't have led them to change their decisions.

The key to successful lobbying in politics boils down to using the right ammo in the right fights. Frankly, online petitions are the wrong fight in my opinion and experience.
 

mgobaja

Well-Known Member
#29
With Mad Media being heavily invested in the Mint 400, and this potentially removing much of the current course, have they a plan to move the event to another location ? Moapa area again possibly ?
 

DirtDgr

Well-Known Member
#32
Hawthorne, Fallon have had races in the past. Yerington? Fernley held the VORRA USA 500. Funnest race I have ever done.

Hawthorne is 5-6 hours drive from Socal. Fallon about 7. Reno about 8. I know you all don't like the drive. I don't either.
 

J Burleson

Well-Known Member
#33
I’m sorry to sound like a pessimist, but if the big dogs(big money) have not stepped up yet, they never will. This thread will slowly fall down the list as more interesting topics, like Bj Baldwin selling a truck, pop up.
The only person who seems to be making any effort on the front end of these issues seems to be Robert Acer. He is taking meetings in Washington for land use issues. The way he has been treated by many in this “family”, it’s a true testament to his character that he didn’t tell everyone to piss off.
It’s the front end that matters. If the promoters and big money players pooled their resources and had a lobby presence in DC, we may see a bit action in “our” favor. But most everyone just assumes someone else will take care of it. Wrong again Johnny!
 
#34
I’m sorry to sound like a pessimist, but if the big dogs(big money) have not stepped up yet, they never will. This thread will slowly fall down the list as more interesting topics, like Bj Baldwin selling a truck, pop up.
The only person who seems to be making any effort on the front end of these issues seems to be Robert Acer. He is taking meetings in Washington for land use issues. The way he has been treated by many in this “family”, it’s a true testament to his character that he didn’t tell everyone to piss off.
It’s the front end that matters. If the promoters and big money players pooled their resources and had a lobby presence in DC, we may see a bit action in “our” favor. But most everyone just assumes someone else will take care of it. Wrong again Johnny!
If it actually happened that was 3+ years ago. Acer disappeared like Batman's parents since then and none of those meetings were ever verified.
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
#36
Frankly online petitions are the least practical influencers in the process. Not absolving people of their responsibility to get involved, but if we're going to implose those folks to pitch in there are much better ways they could be influencing the conversation than signing an online petition. Whether it was 100 or 10,000, I am willing to be a lot of money that not a single member of the County Commission ever say it and even if they did, it wouldn't have led them to change their decisions.

The key to successful lobbying in politics boils down to using the right ammo in the right fights. Frankly, online petitions are the wrong fight in my opinion and experience.
Because many of us have been at this a long time and see areas disappear and I have never seen these petitions make any difference at all. I have been to meetings and seen that just delay things but eventually they win.

So the better option is for the community and industry, to not do everything possible and simply roll over without uttering a word?

I agree there are better tactics that could be employed however, this community has proven itself less than interested in engaging at any level; including the simplest which is showing how you feel via a simple online petition.

What's even more discouraging is that a majority of those that derive an income form the industry and/or that the community consider icons of the sport, don't engage at all? Odd considering their income and the sport, which created and provides them those opportunities is threatened. And yet historically they have never really engaged? Privileged?

Going back to the S11/Cranston/Levine days very few from the "car community" were engaged. Most just stood by and let others do the work as they do now. However, back then the petitions and thousands attending the meetings did impact the decisions that were made. But it was a simpler time and more emphasis was put on your actions as opposed to today where your status seems more important...
 
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GRANT@FUNCO

Well-Known Member
#37
MY 02 cents FWIW
Not pointing fingers just pointing out what I believe to be the case.


The off road race community is way behind the curve with respect to land use issues. As was mentioned here previously, by the time it gets to public hearings the ship has sailed. The recreation side advocate groups hire lobbyist, hire lawyers and try to get out in front of the issues. Most of the time as volunteers with little to no paycheck if any. Frankly most people look at it and think someone else is minding the store.
If you use the ISDRA ( Glamis ) as an example in 2000 1/2 the dunes were closed over and endangered plant nobody even knew about. A group was formed after the fact ,the American Sand Association . It's taken over a decade and literally millions of dollars and 10s of 1000 of volunteer hours to try to un ring that bell and reopen some areas.

Bitching on a forum ,signing a petition, going to a meeting or two won't cut it. If you can't volunteer... donate $$$. Organizing and using the same tactics the enviroes and builders use HAS TO HAPPEN. With that said I know of at least one prolific off road family that has stepped up in the past with significant resources... Starts with an M

How do I know this ? It hit us in 2000 like a ton of bricks and yes we did step and I personally spent many many years of my life along with other great volunteers to make it happen.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
#38
So the better option is for the community and industry, to not do everything possible and simply roll over without uttering a word?

I agree there are better tactics that could be employed however, this community has proven itself less than interested in engaging at any level; including the simplest which is showing how you feel via a simple online petition.

What's even more discouraging is that a majority of those that derive an income form the industry and/or that the community consider icons of the sport, don't engage at all? Odd considering their income and the sport, which created and provides them those opportunities is threatened. And yet historically they have never really engaged? Privileged?

Going back to the S11/Cranston/Levine days very few from the "car community" were engaged. Most just stood by and let others do the work as they do now. However, back then the petitions and thousands attending the meetings did impact the decisions that were made. But it was a simpler time and more emphasis was put on your actions as opposed to today where your status seems more important...
I'm assuming you aren't suggesting that I would advocate doing nothing simply because I said my opinion is that things like online petitions have minimal tangible impact. Bit of a false choice there.

The lack of coordinated effort and unity amongst the OHV community (racing or otherwise) has been an issue for as long as I can remember, to the mid 80s at least. And sure you can find anecdotal evidence through various "wins" here and there but on the whole the OHV community has never been as organized or as mobilized as other interest groups and it shows in the results. Probably a lot of reasons why, including apathy. I don't know what the right answer is. If I did, I would have already worked to pursue it.

But what I do know is that no amount of internet complaining about people who don't show up makes them want to show up more so that seems like a wasted effort as a tactic too. This is certainly not the first time people have complained about the "big timers" not throwing their weight in to the fight and that is probably a valid criticism but by the same token, people who are involved complaining about people who aren't doesn't seem to change the demographic either.

My opinion now is what it's always been...in order to be successful (if that's honestly even ever possible) it requires some legit top down organization with credible, recognizable people within the community to lead the charge. That is the single most effective way to rally the troops. In the same way that people are influenced to buy tires or energy drinks or whatever based on the peddling from their favorite folks in the game, so too could they be influenced to recognize the importance of and get involved with these causes. But there is no obvious desire or momentum to do that and no pied piper to lead that effort so we're essentially left with what we've always had...online petitions and public comments on deals that have long since been inked.
 

y2kbaja

Well-Known Member
#39
Grant@Funco you're the first manufacture to come on here and I applaud you for that. You don't see TT, UTV or any other manufacture including tires on here saying they're in front of the fight to keep lands open for use. Thank You. And if a TT manuf was at the meeting then I applaud them too.
 

ACME

Well-Known Member
#40
JPrich, I can appreciate your sugar vs vinegar approach in most cases, but in this matter it really doesn't seem to matter as many over the years have tried various approaches with the same results. Well what Grant states is true, that there are more valuable options that the community and industry could avail themselves of: The industry and community have been apathetic towards a majority of those options including even those directions that require the least amount of effort such as petitions or donations.

Yes, there are better options but we need to show we at least care, and at this point we aren't presenting any opposition or showing we care enough to voice any measurable outcry.

FYI, 100's of private emails and PM's have been sent proactively giving updates on meetings, issues and begging a majority of the manufactures and community icons to get involved over the years. This included information on issues, meetings, organizations, requests to incite the masses via their social media platforms, options for getting involved at numerous levels as well as multiple advance requests on opportunities like the Marine 29 Palms meetings a few years ago and the response was negligible. Only a few of the industry suppliers or upper class teams have ever engaged.

As for being too pushy on these topics; some complained about the same position a few of us took regarding the DGAF mentality of MDR a few years back; and we all know how that ended...

Hopefully we leave enough of the sport around so that the next generations get a chance to enjoy what we took for granted
 
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