Against my better judgement, back in the day I helped my brother-in-law chop a RZR cage while his was being built. It spread 3" out on both a pillars when we unbolted it. We had to use 3" ratchet straps to bolt it back on. I was expecting the plates the sheer off the bolts when we released the straps.Went through several sawzall blades too. LOL!
My new X3 moved about as much as yours when the stock cage was unbolted. Yamaha YXZ is even worse when you remove the cage.
Those photos were not showing up when I first replied.Edited to add, nowhere did I say using thicker tubes led to better engineering. I was asking you a question.
See above, there are some photos of both bare chassis up there.
Canam supposedly uses an "exotic" material (dual phase 980 steel), I know nothing about it. However we all know it is much thinner.
I am asking your expertise based on the drawings and the facts. Which is a "better engineered" chassis?
Robby pointed out that his cage ties directly into the chassis at every point. all the way to the bottom. Called it ghost or dead links on rzr and canam. that was months ago
WTF are you talking about?Oh come on TL..... please read back your last sentence to yourself outloud, maybe even record it and play it back so you hear it..... "since he is not secretive about it" ..... I'll wait.....
Finished? Did you start laughing at yourself out loud? You believe anything he says is more than a half truth you're kidding yourself.
Thanks for the response Alex.Speed has had several variations , with that they scrapped one and moved to the next like any other oem , the only difference is Speed was public about it and taking money ahead of time which rubs people the wrong way when they're still waiting on a car they paid whatever for back in 2019 at the SSS (in reference to the 4seat XX's) that they haven't received yet to this day. Some food for thought though - Carb testing - if you change anything - lines, clutch calibration, exhaust/intake design etc - you have to re-certify. If engines are being ran on the dyno for calibration purposes yet its a lot farther off than most are wanting to admit.
Polaris is plagued with bringing something to the market to meet demand without due diligence - they're doing it now on the snow side with a recall on already shipped 850 sleds that are prone to engine failure. At some point they need to stop putting the cart before the horse and realize what its costing them in the long run - Canam has killed their market share in the sport/turbo market.
Did the same thing. Ratchet straps are your friend when chopping stock cages.Against my better judgement, back in the day I helped my brother-in-law chop a RZR cage while his was being built. It spread 3" out on both a pillars when we unbolted it. We had to use 3" ratchet straps to bolt it back on. I was expecting the plates the sheer off the bolts when we released the straps.
From what I know, both the Can Am X3 & RZR need the upper cage for chassis rigidity. Like you said they flex more then you would expect. I had a similar experience just recently helping a friend put a cage on his RZR XP4. We could not get the new cage to bolt up in his driveway, which is lightly sloped down and to an angle. We finally rolled it into the street and with a drift punch in the cage mount we were able to line it up and bolt it on. In the driveway we could not get close.Before I welded my cage on and welded in door bars, I would jack the car up by the frame when taking off the cage. Once the cage is off the car flexes like crazy. The front and rear pillar mounts probably get at least an inch or two closer/further depending on if the car is on its wheels or if the suspension is dangling.
BTW Ford just started using a new Gen 3 steel called ArcelorMittal or Fortiform 980.
Just like DOM vs chromoly ?I then asked why are we not seeing it used in racing or off road where we want to be lightweight? Greg said was it’s not ideal to use in a consistent high stress environment. Because it’s got a low yield which means it can bend but spring back, and because it’s heat treated. It’s strong, but becomes more brittle. For a passenger car it’s got one crash to do it’s job. It’s disposable after a crash. But in a buggy where each mile is like a crash, over time it becomes fatigued and the tube itself will start to crack. Unlike mild steel that is softer and will bend or kink before shearing, DP will shear easier.
I honestly don't know unfortunately.Thanks for the response Alex.
You have always answered my questions...except you didn't answer the original question on when Polaris started their R&D on the new R...if you can't answer...I understand...but that is still an answer.
I think this will ultimately be what the big delay in getting Speed UTV’s built. Right now we have over 100 container ships off the West Coast just sitting and waiting to get to dock & be unloaded. My broker told me we will have another 45 ships expected to show up by the end of this week. She said the “experts” at the ports are saying it could take until June of 22 to just unload what is in route. If the ships continue in the volumes they currently are, this could go into 2023.Many seem to forget there was a thing called a plandemic right smack dab in the middle of RGs plans...now we have material rising costs, shortages, delivery issues,, workers being paid to not work...etc
I blame Brandon.
Robby has found a alternate line from CHINA to the USA .......... all will be fine.Many seem to forget there was a thing called a plandemic right smack dab in the middle of RGs plans...now we have material rising costs, shortages, delivery issues,, workers being paid to not work...etc
I blame Brandon.
When tubing is made, steel sheet is rolled and welded at the seam. This seam is a weak spot that could fracture on impact or from high pressure fluids. By drawing this weld through a mandrel, it compresses the grain of the weld making the weld more closely match the mechanical properties of the steel sheet used to make the tube. It does not alter the mechanical properties of the base metal. That is why I say DOM tubing is more “reliable”.Yield is how much stress something can take before it permanently deforms, "low yield" means something can't bend very far and is usually the opposite of what you want. Likewise I don't know what a more "reliable" metal means. My understanding is DOM has a higher yield strength than "regular" mild steel due to strain hardening and being cold formed. This does not mean it's stiffness or ultimate tensile strength is improved, just that it can deflect more before it's permanently deformed.
Obviously the "cage" (upper section) is extremely important structurally. When the front or rear suspension compresses a bending moment is applied through the chassis which tries to compress the top and tension the bottom. This is why convertible cars are less stiff (vertically) and require massive door sills, because the height of their beam (for simplification) is only a few inches instead of a few feet. This is why when you cut the "cage" off current SXS they turn into a noodle, you just removed the vast majority of the moment capability and stiffness! The speed and the can am chassis shown on the previous page both have that same issue. The speed however has a fully integrated "cage" which would help in some regards---however if you cut that off I would bet it does the exact same thing as the can am! Obviously the speed has much more bracing in other areas, and I'm not up to speed (ha) on the failure areas of the can am, but when I look at the chassis I see very stiff areas on the speed that are still connected with a pretty weak structure, vs the can am that is not stiff areas connected with a not stiff center section. And without going down the rabbit hole, obviously there's only so much one can do when doors are required (doors just f*** up trusses!). So take all that as you will.
Lots of incorrect information and wording, though I did like A-Techs wording that design is superior to just material geometry. Obviously they go hand in hand, but conclusions shouldn't be too heavily based on "this tube is thicker", especially when we're talking about trusses.
Also, as someone who designs and works on very complicated systems, I'm still firm that there is no way in hell production units are done this year and in customers hands or even for the vast majority of next year. The sand sports show and the race reinforce that idea even more, right now it's what I'd call an engineering development unit, not even a true prototype. Just my $.02 on everything!
So while we're on the topic of strength/weight. I saw 4130 mentioned earlier. If I see Speed cages failure I will have one built. DOM or chromo? MIG it TIG?When tubing is made, steel sheet is rolled and welded at the seam. This seam is a weak spot that could fracture on impact or from high pressure fluids. By drawing this weld through a mandrel, it compresses the grain of the weld making the weld more closely match the mechanical properties of the steel sheet used to make the tube. It does not alter the mechanical properties of the base metal. That is why I say DOM tubing is more “reliable”.
But since most ERW tubing is made from 1010 and most DOM is made from 1020, it is also correct to say DOM is stronger than ERW, but only because of the base metal, not the process.