The Death of Desert Racing?

martininsocal

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So now we truly know whats wrong with America. We are finally to the point where insurance carriers won't write poilicies that they may have to pay out on??? That is what I am getting. After the Northridge Earthquake, they refused to write new policies and many bailed out of the state completely when told they would have to write earthqauke coverage if they wanted to do business here anyway. Anyone ever read what an earthquake policy actually pays? How many of you keep enough cash around to cover 25% of your personal homes replacement value? They won't replace contents. Now take racing...How many claims have been submitted for racing related accidents and incidents? Does anyone know? Promoters? Ever get together and compare notes about this stuff? Do youthink it may be wise to shop as a group for better rates, etc...? What it really boils down to is this, The Insurance industry lost lots of rate payers money investing in high gain stocks. While they were getting rich and taking home lots of bonus money for being wise investors, they didn't mind paying out an occassional claim. Now that they have lost money and teh bonuses are gone, they want to protect what they have left. It had nothing to do with hurricanes, earthquakes, etc... They have been collecting enough cash for the coverages from residential homeowners for plenty of years to cover the cash outlays from those incidents. It was the paper money that they lost in the Stock Market that has killed them. Money they did nothing to earn, but sure looked good to corporate boards and those who approve 6 and 7 figure salaries.
How about this, we form a racers coalition(all aspects of the sport, Desert, Shortcourse, rally, MX, all promoters, the racers, etc...) and create our own insurance fund. We all pay a membership to one organization or another and it doesn't get you squat(OK maybe a rule book, sticker amd T-shirt) when it should be putting you in a blanket laibility Insurance policy for your racing activities. Survival comes to those united...

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

Dave_G

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Re:"How many claims have been submitted for racing related accidents and incidents? Does anyone know?"

Martin,
I know of at least three wrongful death, seven injury and one slander/defemation of charactrer suit in off road racing in the last 10 years. Lets take an example here and see why no one wants to insure off road racers.

You have 50 racers that sign up for insurance at $15,000 average per year in premiums. (that's probably more people than actually have insurance in off road racing) That's only $750,000 to the insurance company. Joe Bob's TT goes off course and clobbers a 10 year old kid and kills him. The parents sue and get $2.5 million for their dead kid. Let's see.....how far in the hole is the insurance company? Would you like to be them? If the insurance company wanted to just break even they would have to charge a little over $50,000 in premiums to those 50 racers. And if no one files a claim during the year they did good. But lets say someone files a claim the second year and is awarded 2.5 million. Their still in the hole about 1 million.

The bottom line is that insurance companies are betting that you won't have a claim and the racer is betting he is going to have one. The trick is collecting enough money from those who won't have a claim to pay the guy who did. And when the numbers don't add up, the insurance company isn't going to play. You just get dumped by the bean counters who assess the risk.

Dave

"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."
 

pjc

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Yikes, I better look at the USAA bill when it comes in. I can say that they have been the best deal around. I hope that this is not over.

PJCinLV
 

martininsocal

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Dave- the problem is not with the money, but the fact that the parents can SUE because they were not parenting responsibly. It should never go to court. There shouldn't be a settlement, but maybe the parents should go to jail. People sue cities because they lose control of their car and slam into a bridge/wall/tree/Pole... and GET MONEY!!! WHY? Our society has gotten so used to their "feelings" that it doesn't matter if the person is deserving of a settlement, but we all feel bad for their loss, so we will give them something regardless of who's fault it is. The attitude has become so circular that jurors feel that it isn't their money they are giving away, it is the money of the BIG BAD INSURANCE Company adn they have plenty of it to give, so they won't miss a couple million here or there. Take Smoking and Tobacco. A woman gets lung cancer and is awarded 28 Billion with a B by a jury. Sure and appeals court reduced it to 28 Million, but the fact is, noone tied her down and stuck cigarettes in her mouth until she got cancer. If you started Smoking within the last 33 years, it is nobody elses fault but your own. I was in Kidergarten in 1970, They told us how bad smoking was. That was 33 years ago...I managed to never even try cigarettes.
The truth is everything we do involves risk, even walking outside the door. You may get hit by a car, step wrong off a curb and break an ankle, or get stung by a bee and die from Anyphalctic shock. Who you gonna sue? It surely can't be your fault. It is no different than the folks who are now sueing anybody and everybody who had anything to do with the WTC. apparently the 2.3 million dollar average payout the survivors received wasn't enough for some, so they are sueing anyone who may have a dollar left. Face it, the population of this country has become its own worst enemy.

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

Vtr_Racing

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I have been wondering how long it would take this topic to come up. My opinion is the insurance companies are blaming everyone else for their woes. That finger pointing over the years has got them no where and they still have 4 fingers pointing back at themselves. Stupid analogy but a fact. The insurance industry as a whole to me seems like a big gigantic pyramid scam. The other sad part is the rediculous lawsuites. Taking up much needed resources in our justice system. Californians are getting a big hose job and your taxes are gonna show it soon. Claiming the state is way over budget and needs to raise taxes to help pay for it. This is a big problem all over the USA. I am not sure what its gonna take but I know everyone wants their hands in my wallet. Time will tell what happens in the OffRoad area........

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.socalmotocross.com/vtrracing//>Vtr Racing.com</A>
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
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ASK WALKER EVANS ABOUT IT HE CAN TELL YOU I AM SURE NO MORE DODGE HMMMMMMM
 

Kritter

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Thank the people who voted Davis back in, for the big bending over Californians are gonna take!!!

Kris
"Buy American before it's too late"
 

J_Dog

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Martin,
It's the "Don't Blame Me Theory" at work. Our society has been raised not to take responsibilty. Most people who get hurt, hit, fall, etc. don't take responsibility for their own actions. I see it everday at work. One of my partner's stopped a kid the other night for driving 92 mph in a 55 mph zone. The kid starts complaining, "Damn car. You guys always look for the red ones." He was driving a red Ford Mustang. I proceeded to explain to him it was not the car's fault. It did not make him drive 92 mph. Besides, at night, we can't tell what color the car is when it's 500' away. What stands out is the fact that the car is hauling ass down the highway, Duh! What's really sad in our society is that the kid could probably sue Ford for making the mustang able to go to fast or for the red paint job and some idiotic jurors would award him money.

Jeff Matlock
CODE 3 Motorsports
Class 7s Ford Ranger - VORRA
 

EQuin

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Hey Pat,

So you have USAA also? They're the best in my opinion! Anyway, I just got my statement since my homeowners insurance is up for its annual renewal. You live in Nevada, right? I don't know how the insurance companies factor in the rates, but if they take each state into consideration, your rate may be different. I live in North Texas, at the southern edge of our country's "tornado alley." Plus, North Texas has alot of hail-storm and mold damage claims. According to my recent statement, these weather related factors were taken into consideration along with the general malaise of the stock market this past year. Yours might be different, though.

Take care,


Ed Q.
 

Dave_G

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Re: "So you have USAA also? "

Ed,
Same here. I like their services they offer like their investment brokerage service. I have everything with them including my auto, home and boat. My aircraft and business insurance is the only thing they won't offer service on.

Dave

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
 

EQuin

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Hey Dave,

Me too. I have homeowners, life and auto with them. I'm considering their investment services also. If I could get professional liability with them I would. But they don't offer that either. I like how they've been profiling some military hero or heroic deed in their monthly magazine recently.


Ed Q.
 

BA_DirtDriver

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You guys are not getting it. An Idiot , like the Winnebago guy mentioned above, does something stupid and sues. He gets a million dollar jury award. That is proof that our legal system works perfectly. ... A jury of his peers. 12 other idiots. ha ha
 

martininsocal

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Theres another one!!! MOLD!!! Did you know that insurance companies have seen a 1000% increase in their payouts for water damage claims due to the possibility of mold suits? Before Mold became the latest Cause du jour for any illness in the world, a general water damage claim for residential home was about 2800-3000 dollars for repair/replace of carpet and possible contents. Now the average cost is over 28,000 dollars! Why? because people are sueing the insurance companies claiming that mold is making them sick! In some cases, the homeowners never even filed a claim for flooding/water damage, but they have won suits against insurance companies down the road because it was something the insurance companies "could have" done something about, so it is covered. I think mold will end up just like Bolt-on Boobies, everone thought they were the cause of Lupus in woman, but after a 20 year study, they found their was no difference in affected rates of woman with Bolt-ons and without. Many woman sued and received settlements before the study was complete. Same with EMF and breast cancer that was recently debunked. Cell phones willmake you grow a 3rd ear!!!!!!!

Our society has become so dependent on "feelings" that we will throw out good science so we can feel good about ourselves and our decissions.

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

Rodney

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As I stated earlier, we are only scratching the surface... A long time ago, (apparently in a galaxy far, far, away) law in this country was based on " A reasonably prudent man" what ever happened to that guy? I know down in Australia if you sign a release, they tend to hold up in court. Too bad a release is close to useless in this country. Hey Martin,you mentioned MOLD..I'm in the A/C budiness and mold is a very scary four letter word! We all have been living with this stuff for years and all of the sudden it's killing us all. I can state as a matter of fact that there is at least 4 types of mold in every commercial HVAC system everywhere...I don't care how good their maintenance program might be. To me, the answer is simple. Personal responsibility and common sense....now how do we get there?

Winning IS everything
 

JrSyko

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I've been following this post and I think that you are all correct in your assertation that people will sue for anything, even if it is their own fault. However, I think that you are all hypocrites in the sense that you would not do the same thing given the opportunity. Say you have mold in your house and some lawyer approaches you and says that he can get you a quarter of a million dollars for the damages your family has incurred as a result of the mold. You are telling me that you would tell him no?! You would all turn down "free" money? You can all argue that you would, however, the general populous, which we ALL make up, is suing and making money on these lawsuits as, if they were not, than the lawyers would not be pursuing these claims. So somebody is not telling the truth about how they would not sue or file a bogus claim. It is the same thing with the jurors on these cases. People make fun of them for awarding these outlandish verdicts however WE ALL make up a jury. I seriously doubt that any one of us would act differently in the given situation. Everybody laughs about the verdicts handed down by juries, however, they continue to happen. So what does that tell you? People are greedy and want to make money and this is an easy way to make money. I'm not saying that it is their own fault, I believe it is the lawyer's fault who promises these riches.

The bottom line is that people say one thing and do another and I don't believe that any one of us would act any differently. So lets not all act as if we are innocent when it comes to why insurance companies raise their premiums. I'm sure there are quite a few of us who have "screwed" the insurance companies one way or another. Just think back to the last time you filed a claim.......

See ya in the dirt!
 

pciscott

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JrSyko that is the problem with many people these days, they want something for nothing. You work hard to build your business and some irresponsible person wants to take what you have spent a lifetime building because he is not happy in life. When my mother succumbed to cancer there were some issues about her medical care that did not make me happy. Would suing the doctors have brought back my Mother? My Mother smoked every day for 30 years, was it the doctors fault she had cancer? JrSyko I can tell you this I would not sue anyone period, I was brought up to work hard and earn my own keep. Maybe this is something they do not teach in school these days, but I believe there is NO FREE LUNCH. I like my house cool in the summer so I will deal with MOLD. I have learned what is good and bad sometimes I do the bad, again my decision. People need to take responsibility for there own actions, but until the liability laws are revised in this country society will suffer both with the attitudes of our youth and there work ethics.

God Bless America

Scott Steinberger Trophy Truck #7
 

martininsocal

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Jr- I have never filed a claim to my insurance company(ever) so I couldn't refute your claim that everyone does!!! I believe in personal responsibility. I have made mistakes and I have taken responsibility for them. Sometimes I have even blown peoples minds when I have admitted to some of my mistakes(they can't believe I would openly admit to making the mistake) Guess that is how things are tuaght now a dyas, the Bart Simpson theory of fault..."I didn't do it, no one saw me do it, you can't prove a thing..." I beleive everyone makes mistakes, the difference between a good person and a scab trying to make a buck on someelses back is that the good person only makes the mistake once and learns from it. The scabs continue to get rich off other peoples hard earned dollars(PI attourneys insert name here) . As for your conclusion that everyone does it...do you really think the woman who spilled her coffee in her lap and sued was the FIRST person who spilled hot coffee from a restarant? Think about it...

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

Rodney

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Jr..you are probably correct in assuming most people would take opportunity. I personally have turned down 2 opportunities because I don't believe in it. I also believe you reap what you sow, blood money stains your hands permanently. Just because everyone does it doesn't make it right. We need some common sense in the legal process, just look at the tobacco issue. I agree we have the best legal system in the world, unfortunately some exploit it. The endangered species act is another great example. A great concept that is being exploited for profit. Peace.

Winning IS everything
 

JrSyko

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I know I made a hasty generalization that everybody would sue if they were in the position to sue. Naturally, there are those among us who have the strength and clarity of mind to take responsibility for their actions and turn down the "free money". However, it is those who don't that ruin it for the rest of us and they seem to be in the overwhelming majority. I applaud both Martin and Scott for doing the right thing and not filing frivalous lawsuits and insurance claims.

See ya in the dirt!
 

Tom_Willis

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Take a look in the yellow pages, what is the single biggest category? Attorneys. Almost 70 pages in the L. A. phone book.. And guess how many attorneys get disbarred every year? A dozen? There are simply too many in California competing for legitimate work, then the newest fifty thousand have to "create" lawsuits to pay for their student loans.

I live my life one paycheck at a time
 
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