THE GOOD, BAD AND UGLY ABOUT THE 2021 MEXICAN 1000

volks 73

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My opinion DQ for tampering.
Question is how do you prove it?
Are they unplugging it? If so maybe STELLA can apply a seal to the connections only to be removed by STELLA.
00 following 1248 for 17 miles does STELLA show how close the 00 was? How close and how long did they follow the 25?
I had 1 car brake check me after giving me the green light to pass, almost hitting them. They ran and pulled over the next time I caught them. I also think some people panic thinking they need to take immediate action once they give you the green light. They just need to find the next place to safely let you pass. This would be a good topic at the drivers meeting in regards to etiquette.
Seems to me with what you presented with the 1248 and 25 they should be put on notice for the next race at a minimum.
I would also extend that warning to any one else you suspect of tampering.
 
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Bro_Gill

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I would first look at your race history. How many of the, say, top 30 overall cars were really vintage cars and vintage looking cars with bitchen up to date suspensions? Those guys are there to race in real race cars or pretty damn close proximities. They're driving race speeds in race cars. If any of them complain about being nerfed, they need to pack up and go home. I am not talking about take out moves, but the real, horn twice, slight nerf and if they refuse to answer the request, they get a love tap that gets their attention. You can also do what several promoters did back a couple decades ago and require rubber dock bumpers on the front of the cars. What I will say is that a driver has a better chance of wrecking their car following close in someone's dust than they do giving a love tap and getting around. Not many folks are gonna wanna continue doing this if passing becomes almost impossible and finish positions are locked in by 'failed RF antenna.' I would also think that the folks running your stella program would be able to tell if the system was compromised by someone disconnecting an antenna. It would be pretty simple to check if a car had been passed 3 times by other faster cars and their record shows it never received a push to pass request. Then a simple test by the stella folks would determine if the antenna was broke, or something was wrong, like it was disconnected. I get it, it's a business for you guys, but you're gonna lose customers if you don't nip stuff like this in the bud. First time found with inoperable stella with no verifiable reason should be 30 minutes, second time should be DQ. Let them run the rest of the course, have them leave 30 minutes after the last car still in the race leaves in the morning. Let them know they are not eligible for any prizes or trophies and if they have another issue, they will be banned from NORRA.
 

jon coleman

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My opinion DQ for tampering.
Question is how do you prove it?
Are they unplugging it? If so maybe STELLA can apply a seal to the connections only to be removed by STELLA.
00 following 1248 for 17 miles does STELLA show how close the 00 was? How close and how long did they follow the 25?
I had 1 car brake check me after giving me the green light to pass, almost hitting them. They ran and pulled over the next time I caught them. I also think some people panic thinking they need to take immediate action once they give you the green light. They just need to find the next place to safely let you pass. This would be a good topic at the drivers meeting in regards to etiquette.
Seems to me with what you presented with the 1248 and 25 they should be put on notice for the next race at a minimum.
is there a way to check by a radio scanner? maybe have an un announced scanner at a check point , if not working, treat it like a score light, gotta fix it , before proceeding, and a ' tamper proof 'stella is probably the only way, if tempered with, a 10000 dollar fine ( if you wanna race again....) ps, if you Are cheeting at All in this particular race, that is really weeeeek...
 

TrophyBurro

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We tried that already, the problem is some teams disconnect the RF antenna just after the start and the requests never get recorded on their units, at the end of the day they reconnect the antenna before the finish line. Stella crew told me that there is no way their units could be having RF issues that often.
could use an official tamper proof seal or sticker to stop that
 

JenMorton

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is there a way to check by a radio scanner? maybe have an un announced scanner at a check point , if not working, treat it like a score light, gotta fix it , before proceeding, and a ' tamper proof 'stella is probably the only way, if tempered with, a 10000 dollar fine ( if you wanna race again....

This is a great idea to also help confirm the Stella is working.
But they shouldn't be scanned in a check point, speed zones are the best spot to check for tampering since this is where they make up a lot of time.
 

NIKAL

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Maybe there is a way for the stella folks to send a "test" pass alert to the cars at the start line and observe if the alert is received or not before they take the green flag.
This is what I was thinking. Each Stella needs to be test checked each morning to make sure it works before taking the starting line. And if it quits working or just does not record that day, then you take a 1 hour penalty. The only way to reverse the penalty is if Stella tests the unit and finds it truly failed. If they find nothing wrong with the unit, the penalty stands.

If you find that you keep having the same repeat offenders, then maybe their entry fees double next year. Because you don’t want to ban people, but maybe double or triple fees will make them go race somewhere else and be someone else’s problem.

NORRA is supposed to be a fun, adventurous race with a bit of competition thrown in. It’s not a section on your racing resume for an energy drink sponsorship.
 

oneleglance

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NO NERFING....

I was bike sweep this year instead of my normal chase role and WOW did it open my eyes to the behind the scenes hard work by NORRA staff.

Thoughts:
This year was a new course, in new areas and completely different in so many ways yet it really came off well all things considered.

Stella folks really seem bothered by racers/staff/customers alot. They really make you feel like any problem is YOUR fault. Things like not giving me any "sticker" or written Stella instruction sheet then wondering why I had no idea how it worked other than what I can read on the box.
I think a Stella person who walks the starting line testing the Pass button and then applying a sticker around cable connections and then those get checked at the end of each Special would make a big difference. If you have to unscrew the antenna cable during a special I bet you would have a pretty good story/reason.

Comms are everything. My antenna got messed up day one and I was finally able to buy a new antenna from the PCI folks late the 2nd night in BOLA so I could hear at least (more range than talk). The entire thing made me come home and buy a 110w Kenwood to be ready for Oct (and I will go out an test with another Sweeper who is local to me). I am a HAM and help with gravel rallies and we teach everyone who is working to listen and relay msg if it is clear something isn't getting through.

Suggestions:
Everything over the radio should be clearly Race Mile (per the road book) or Waypoint, the only reason to say KM is if it is known highway problem NOT on the special/transit.
Have the Starting line msg to Weatherman the time of 1st/last car starting, and 1st/last bike starting. That lets everyone within radio range know things are happening.
Have Race Ops get an InReach and publish the email adrs so folks who have an InReach (they are getting popular) can send a msg when radios are not getting through.

Tim Morton and Jennifer of Baja Bound Motos are amazing folks. Tim jumped in his Talon with a wicked cool bike carrier and helped us grab a broken bike end of Day 2.
My red Van was grateful for his speed compared to mine :)

There is plenty more thoughts in my head but this is enough for now. I really enjoyed helping even if my fuel cost was more than I expected (going back and forth sweeping eats the gas) and I hope to help again in October.

Lastly if you got any pics or video of my big Red Van please let me know, I was moving too much to get much of anything.
 

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oneleglance

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Question I could not find an answer to in the Rules....

If I am a Racer and I stop to help someone, noting the time I stopped and the time I restarted......
Can I put in that night for time credit for that?

It would be great to have an event that is competitive but that folks know they can get back time for being friendly.
 

mgobaja

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Question I could not find an answer to in the Rules....

If I am a Racer and I stop to help someone, noting the time I stopped and the time I restarted......
Can I put in that night for time credit for that?

It would be great to have an event that is competitive but that folks know they can get back time for being friendly.
I do believe this has been something they have done, Elias will be the best answer.
 

Team Todo En

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No 'Good Samaritan' time is given any more. Only for physical injury assists.
We stopped on day 2 to help 2wd El Santo get out of the sand. We didn't come across many break downs this year, not even flats (except us, lol).
 

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y2kbaja

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Since (cheaters) unplug the Stella during the specials have a secret Stella RF check somewhere on course. If cars are broadcasting or receiving a signal a simple drive by during the race would ping the signal. No signal ping=huge cheating penalty.

If you're running up from for the overall (top 10?) then a horn-tap-bump should be allowed also. To run top 10 you're not running a true vintage car. (I could be wrong but thinking of modern TT's and cl 1 cars winning the last few years...)
 

landshark

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The tracker (Stella) unit needs to be self contained and self powered. The rf antenna itself is a brittle connection and we have ripped that tiny wire off when a bush or tree grabbed it and ripped it out of the antenna.

Ideally the unit needs to be bomb proof and allow no options for tampering. Every unit tested before and after every stage with a test gate randomly on course and if needed swapped out.

Our experience with the Stella units this year was less than “stellar”.

Push to pass worked for 99% of the folks. It’s that 1% that I want to punch in face.

The speed zones on day 5 drove us crazy, the Stella would scream at us that we were going 27-32 in a 25mph zone (valley t) while both our gps units were showing 19. Everyone caught up with us in that zone and we lost all of our pacing advantage from there on out.

We only received mechanical alerts once we were passing or passed the stopped vehicles.

The race was amazing this year and we had a phenomenal time. Let me get my thoughts together and I Will post up soon.
 
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2manybroncos

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Agree with Landshark. The Stella is a PIA to wire in with constant power. Our unit functioned properly as far as we could determine other than the breakdown alerts which flashed adjacent to or after passing the vehicle. We always tried to pull over to allow a pass before we got the request. Sometimes it’s difficult to find a safe place to pull over so everyone has to be a little patient. It all comes down to sportsmanship and respect. Lend a hand when you can, allow a pass, respect the speed zones for the BENEFIT OF THE LANDOWNERS AND COMMUNITIES we are privileged to transit. At some point lack of respect and disregard may well shut us out.
On another note, how does one contact photo vendors?
 

knotcher

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Awesome event, in the face of what I am sure was significant hurdles. This was our second event, the first being '19. Some thoughts.

1. My only real complaint was several delayed messages (I assume delayed) from race control to my stella. In three different cases, after I had corrected a navigation error, several minutes later I got a "Wrong Way! OK?" message. In two of those cases, I actually turned around AGAIN and headed back to what was originally the WRONG direction until I figured out the messages were severely delayed. This has to get fixed.

2. My stella did not enter speed control mode for some areas. I could have gone hammer down but didn't (new gravel hill on day 1). Race control shouldn't rely on local storage for violations. IF not already, audit actual reported speeds in transits for the leaders at least.

3. If ever a loop race again, please loop moto out and back to GN. BoLA accommodations are awful and made worse by the extra teams. poop, run everyone out to GN vs. BoLA on a peninsula run and skip that place altogether.

4. SF to Mag7 splash and the reverse on Day 4 was over 90 miles. I run a 4.6 gallon tank and needed all of it. I did not see any open fuel stations along the way.

4. Roadbooks southbound were fine.

5. Roadbooks northbound had issues. I expected this and assume it is largely endemic to this event vs. future events. This was my favorite (68.21). The flaggers were waving us left. I went with the roadbook and went right because I've had enough of being messed with already at this point by unofficial flaggers. In hindsight, yes highway crossings haven't been where that happens, but this shouldn't happen.

ebbb5f84-1b85-489c-a379-b48491c863f3-jpeg.2942330
 

john Mcc

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I think that NORRA did a great job for all that they had to do to get the race on. I hope that NORRA try's to run the loop race every other year, because it was real nic getting home (Vegas) in 1 day.

Thanks Again NORRA Graet Job!!!!!
 

CHINOLAS

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My opinion DQ for tampering.
Question is how do you prove it?
Are they unplugging it? If so maybe STELLA can apply a seal to the connections only to be removed by STELLA.
00 following 1248 for 17 miles does STELLA show how close the 00 was? How close and how long did they follow the 25?
I had 1 car brake check me after giving me the green light to pass, almost hitting them. They ran and pulled over the next time I caught them. I also think some people panic thinking they need to take immediate action once they give you the green light. They just need to find the next place to safely let you pass. This would be a good topic at the drivers meeting in regards to etiquette.
Seems to me with what you presented with the 1248 and 25 they should be put on notice for the next race at a minimum.
I would also extend that warning to any one else you suspect of tamperin
Neither 1248 nor 25 tampered with their units, I think you misunderstood my post, 00 according to Stella never requested a push to pass to 1248 but he claims that he did, no records from Stella show that but his tracking shows us he chased 1248 for 17 miles until managed to pass but nerfed them on the side, 00 claims it was not intentional and to me, it looks like it was not due to all the miles he was behind them; 25 is different because he did got a request and moved over quick but the road was very narrow and 00 was too close and bumped them really hard, that was IMO not necessary if you have a little patience and let the car in the front move over but like I said after chasing another guy for a few miles you just think the rest of the passing will be the same.

The bottom line is we need to find a real solution to this problem, one that will allow people to pass without nerfing but at the same time without having delays or crash because the guy in front does not want to move over.
 

CHINOLAS

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This is what I was thinking. Each Stella needs to be test checked each morning to make sure it works before taking the starting line. And if it quits working or just does not record that day, then you take a 1 hour penalty. The only way to reverse the penalty is if Stella tests the unit and finds it truly failed. If they find nothing wrong with the unit, the penalty stands.

If you find that you keep having the same repeat offenders, then maybe their entry fees double next year. Because you don’t want to ban people, but maybe double or triple fees will make them go race somewhere else and be someone else’s problem.

NORRA is supposed to be a fun, adventurous race with a bit of competition thrown in. It’s not a section on your racing resume for an energy drink sponsorship.
Stella units were tested every morning by the Stella crews, RF antenna is only used for Hazards and Passing nothing to do with tracking or speed zones, do not get confused, the unit has internal GPS antennas and that is tamper-proof. Tracking worked perfect, VCP´s, Speed Zones and Location never had issues.
 

CHINOLAS

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Question I could not find an answer to in the Rules....

If I am a Racer and I stop to help someone, noting the time I stopped and the time I restarted......
Can I put in that night for time credit for that?

It would be great to have an event that is competitive but that folks know they can get back time for being friendly.
We used to do that in the past but it took hours of my time every day to check all of the time credits we had to give for this to teams and I just couldn't continue doing it, we decided to credit time back only for medical emergency help, and I said at drivers meeting that if you decide to stop and help someone you should do it because is the right thing to do and not because you are rewarded with a time credit.
 

knotcher

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Stella units were tested every morning by the Stella crews, RF antenna is only used for Hazards and Passing nothing to do with tracking or speed zones, do not get confused, the unit has internal GPS antennas and that is tamper-proof. Tracking worked perfect, VCP´s, Speed Zones and Location never had issues.

Not entirely correct. I had 2 speed zones that didn't light up as speed zones.

Let me reiterate, thank you for putting this event on. It was amazing, and I am sure it was difficult. I am grateful.
 
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