The reality around life-threatening medical assistance at BITD

Honda48X

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Yes, I remember... and it is irresponsible of you to use this message to promote your personal agenda while at the same time you don't' even make a valid point and engage in conversation that is productive to the topic.
My personal agenda is about providing the nessessarry medical care at these races and to try and figure out how to avoid these incidents from occurring again. It's not trying to make certain participants pay as it appears you are trying to say. I think we both want these incidents to stop.
 

Bro_Gill

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An R44 is an absolutely wrong airship for rescue. They barely work when not being used for rescue. Check statistics on copter crashes.
 

ndvalium

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First...I appreciate all that you do and the dedication that you have to the sport!

Comparing apples to Watermelons....? I think that you introduced the watermelons into the discussion.

People will interpret my post differently depending on which side of the table they sit on. Please note that every point had a question mark. It was not necessary a factual statement but an observation from reading this thread or a question to promote further discussion and thought.

We would not be having this discussion about multiple medical birds if the motorcycles weren't racing. My post was not about all the other cost and liabilities associated with off-road racing.

Your equipment can be used race after race. The raw materials you use each race is minimal, especially compared to the cost of not one but now multiple helos on standby or in the air.

I am not saying that we should not work together to find a solution for everyone. The problem is the cost to make racing safer never stops unless you draw a line somewhere. Handlebar guys choose to run without a cage...this can have dire consequences. There is countless ways that we could make our sport safer and a lot of them do not cost everyone more money. In fact some would save a lot of money!




Fair enough - I took them as statements rather than clarification questions - My apologies. It has been a very long week.

As a side note, multiple patients / helicopters can and have occurred on vehicle incidents as well. I have had it happen once before recently (Ryan and Jordan at the Mint 400). Like this incident of multiples this year, it is a very rare occurrence within the BITD world.

Yes - I completely agree on the disposable cost vs the long term benefit. That has been one of the belief's I have had for a long time. Building a long term solution and infrastructure of teams and capable vehicles is where I focus much of my time. That doesn't mean I think it is the only solution.

My plan for our Motorsports Safety Solutions team will be adding one truck per year that are dedicated off road emergency vehicle's capable of the terrain and equipped to respond and deal with medical, fire and rescue emergencies. We have almost finished our 2nd heavy rescue truck. We will be adding two lighter response trucks and hopefully a Polaris General over the next two years. After that we have plans for brush truck capable of better fire responses and additional rescue trucks year after year. We hope within 5 years to have a total of 7 trucks, and 2 UTV's in place. That would support all BITD races 100% by dedicated rescue trucks and staff. Only Vegas to Reno would have to supplement with local teams throughout the state. We have the sponsor support and support within BITD to make this happen. This is a long term improvement and despite my wish that it happened now, the reality is each of these trucks equipped is close to 100,000.00. Plus what our sponsors have contributed and are committed to.

My plans also include adding additional licensed ground ambulances to Parker, Laughlin, and Mint 400 events starting in 2018. While the ambulances are not going to bouncing down a race track, the decreased response time for Advanced Life Support is unarguable and in my opinion, a far more cost effective resource to have at the ready. This is a resource that should a private team choose to assist on their own, would be able to rapidly deliver an injured rider / driver to.

I would also agree though that with the lack of support in the Vegas to Reno section of Nevada, that increased air coverage would be an asset. I have stated that since my very first Vegas to Reno in 1996. That air asset though along with being an expensive disposable resource, is also a really single use or maybe twice if utilized. The time from picking up the patient, transporting to a suitable facility, restock, fuel and return to service would eat about 4 or 5 hours of air time availability. We have 13 to 15 hours of daylight for this race that a helicopter could be utilized. Also if we do add this resource, patients will still be financially responsible for the cost of their transport. (PLEASE BUY THE HELICOPTER INSURANCE) I have unfortunately seen racers end their racing career not from the injury, but from the bills they receive afterwards.

The other areas we race as far as BITD have multiple air resources and medical facilities within a reasonable response time / transport time.

I have started to get some current numbers and some options for a licensed medical helicopter for Vegas to Reno. To be honest, from a liability stand point I will not recommend anything less than that as an official Best in the Desert response for emergencies. I will not discourage private teams from doing what they do with their own helicopters, and will continue to stand behind emergency medical based decisions they make. I will even offer assistance to them in anyway I can through our equipment resources. Vegas to Reno 2018 is already in the planning and permitting phase for Best in the Desert as well as my team. Along with adding resources, we will discuss other actions to try and improve this race. Ill be happy to share with you all when we get the next steps or where we can go form this.

To all those that posted positive comments about what my team is trying to do, we sincerely appreciate it. I have some of the most amazing people in the world standing beside me trying to do their best for the racers of Best in the Desert. We are very fortunate to have amazing support form BITD, Racers, Sponsors and our Families. We will continue to build a bigger, badder team to support you all!
 

Jack

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Is this something that is offered at one of the contingency booths before a race? If it was it may get more involved.
patients will still be financially responsible for the cost of their transport. (PLEASE BUY THE HELICOPTER INSURANCE) I have unfortunately seen racers end their racing career not from the injury, but from the bills they receive afterwards.
 

ndvalium

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Is this something that is offered at one of the contingency booths before a race? If it was it may get more involved.

I brought them out to two races and had them sitting in registration all day. Less than 5 teams signed up. It takes 48 hours to be implemented so having them at tech/ registration makes that race ineligible for coverage.

Here is a link.

Air Methods Advantage

It can all be done on line or over the phone. I am going to re-energize my efforts into this and will work on a group code for off road. That could potentially help us if we have numbers get a lower rate not only for the plan but for stand by assistance.




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AZ7000'

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I brought them out to two races and had them sitting in registration all day. Less than 5 teams signed up. It takes 48 hours to be implemented so having them at tech/ registration makes that race ineligible for coverage.

Here is a link.

Air Methods Advantage

It can all be done on line or over the phone. I am going to re-energize my efforts into this and will work on a group code for off road. That could potentially help us if we have numbers get a lower rate not only for the plan but for stand by assistance.




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I have posted before, use with caution. I believe you are at the mercy of the dispatch. If the air methods ship is busy you will get NO assistance with a non air methods transport so don't think you will have a bill of zero. Our facility has air methods helicopters and pilots but the billing is through Northern Arizona Healthcare so the program is void for parker and such even if the spinning wheel pointed to an air methods ship.
We had the plane in Tonopah and had Mercy Air and Careflight
Are mercy air, Careflight, or the fixed wing air method companies?

A great plan if you need it, just don't count it as a catch all....
 

ndvalium

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I have posted before, use with caution. I believe you are at the mercy of the dispatch. If the air methods ship is busy you will get NO assistance with a non air methods transport so don't think you will have a bill of zero. Our facility has air methods helicopters and pilots but the billing is through Northern Arizona Healthcare so the program is void for parker and such even if the spinning wheel pointed to an air methods ship.

Are mercy air, Careflight, or the fixed wing air method companies?

A great plan if you need it, just don't count it as a catch all....

I would have to double check but I believe last year they transitioned to all helicopters are covered now under the one plan regardless of network. I'll verify and get back to you. It is a new program.


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isdtbower

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Rural Nevada ranchers know not to rely on Helicopter or fixed wing service. In fact there are some areas where there is no service period. It is too far, and even if accepted, the company has to replace that bird from another station. Several ranchers have lost loved ones beating down the dirt roads for help. Ride/race accordingly.

The good news in an event. There are qualified people to quickly call in a helo. Most will not respond to a random call.
In one non-race case a LEO had to show up to verify action was needed, and let them lift off the ground. Then a fire truck had to be dispatched for landing in the dry tundra. Those choppers are big and heavy so figure that they will land some distance away and require transportation (maybe miles) to that position.The UTV option seems real.

The care in Reno, on several occasions, has been awesome as a FYI.
 

AZ7000'

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I would have to double check but I believe last year they transitioned to all helicopters are covered now under the one plan regardless of network. I'll verify and get back to you. It is a new program.


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ndvalium

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Thanks for checking. Fortunately Careflight and Native are also Air Method companies. So at least as far as where we race, it would cover air evacuation for helicopter.


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kenaroo

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So.. has anyone reached out to the Kurt Caselli foundation? they were working on racer safety for the baja races by providing a pre sweep Helicopter for the moto guys to warn them of impending dangers. I'm sure they would be happy to discuss options with you..

Kurt Caselli Foundation
 

BajaboundMoto

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Grant, the rider mentioned who injured himself just 12 miles before the finish at the '16 VtoR is my son.
A year ago I was on here thanking the TT group, @JrSyko Travis, and @ndvalium Dave for saving our son, and we still thank them when we see them to this day. They'll always be special to our family.
(for those who don't know, he had shattered and compounded his pelvis)

Grant really wanted to get on a team for the recent VtoR just to race the final section (still not 100% to go full-race). You know, his own victory over what took him down.
Of course Jennifer and I vetoed that plan!

The Monday after this years VtoR Grant started Paramedic school/training.
Maybe he'll be driving one of the @ndvalium emergency units at the races in the future...


Oh, and a disclaimer because of that other thread on RDC...
Even though he was young (17) when he hurt himself he was definately not a wobbler or a rookie. He was (is) a great rider, fast (was 18th OA bike when he crashed), calm, deliberate, experienced in many types of races (including 2 other BITD events), had ridden with me 1400+mi off-road from the US to Cabo, is likely not a rider who'd be getting caught by the trucks, and was in phenomenal physical condition.
We wouldn't put him out there to be in cars way.
 
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bobylax

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The lovely Parker Goat Trail - I sure hate that spot.....

Bobby, I agree completely-

I have talked with Mad Media and Joey about helping bridge the gap on this several times and they have not had any luck so far. My goal is for the Polaris General as it is a RZR capable with a better payload to get equipment where we need it to be. I hope that things fall in place to add one of these next year and maybe a second the following year. I am all in with everything I have to try and diversify resources to make sure we have the best tools available. We also have a lot of amazing support from sponsors right now as well. We also have the benefit of having a very supportive Doc behind us that permits us a much more advanced scope of skills should we need them.
I would hope that Polaris would step up and donate at least one "General" for this purpose. Being a major Sponsor of BITD, and the fact they give RZR's away at Camp RZR in Glamis, and as prizes at the UTV Nationals and the Mint, I would think that having a "THIS RESCUE VEHICLE DONATED BY POLARIS" plastered on the side of a Quick Response Vehicle, plus showing the capabilities of the new "General" would be a HUGE PR move for them. I hope that there is someone out there that could help make this happen.
 

ndvalium

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The Monday after this years VtoR Grant started Paramedic school/training.
Maybe he'll be driving one of the @ndvalium emergency units at the races in the future...

Tim that would be awesome. One of my other newer team members is a new EMT that became interested in medicine after a critical bike injury while racing District 37. Having racing experience is a huge bonus and something we would welcome on our team anytime he can make it.

I would hope that Polaris would step up and donate at least one "General" for this purpose. Being a major Sponsor of BITD, and the fact they give RZR's away at Camp RZR in Glamis, and as prizes at the UTV Nationals and the Mint, I would think that having a "THIS RESCUE VEHICLE DONATED BY POLARIS" plastered on the side of a Quick Response Vehicle, plus showing the capabilities of the new "General" would be a HUGE PR move for them. I hope that there is someone out there that could help make this happen.

While it may make sense, it is what it is. I wont stop trying to boost equipment and infrastructure to better serve racers at all events in the BITD series as well as the other racing series we serve.



So today I had a 2 hour meeting at BITD to discuss several safety related topics. I included this topic directly and proposed a suggestion for 2018 for medical helicopter air support for Vegas to Reno. The plan includes two licensed medical choppers in different areas during daylight / peak times of the race for both bikes and vehicles. The cost to operate this is 1200.00 per hour per helicopter from the time they lift their base til they land at their base. There are many pieces of this I wont address right now as the bigger topic was what can we do to eliminate some of the hazards that we dealt with at this event. Best in the Desert is committed to making some changes for Vegas to Reno to keep racers safer but still maintaining the challenge that Casey envisioned in this event when he created it.

BITD has 2 brand new events the next two months so bare with us a little to focus on those events and then we will communicate what plans are in place for the 2018 V2R.

We will make safer racing in areas within reasonable control. We will continue to evolve our series and ultimately have a positive impact on our sport.
 

Chris Tobin

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Tim that would be awesome. One of my other newer team members is a new EMT that became interested in medicine after a critical bike injury while racing District 37. Having racing experience is a huge bonus and something we would welcome on our team anytime he can make it.



While it may make sense, it is what it is. I wont stop trying to boost equipment and infrastructure to better serve racers at all events in the BITD series as well as the other racing series we serve.



So today I had a 2 hour meeting at BITD to discuss several safety related topics. I included this topic directly and proposed a suggestion for 2018 for medical helicopter air support for Vegas to Reno. The plan includes two licensed medical choppers in different areas during daylight / peak times of the race for both bikes and vehicles. The cost to operate this is 1200.00 per hour per helicopter from the time they lift their base til they land at their base. There are many pieces of this I wont address right now as the bigger topic was what can we do to eliminate some of the hazards that we dealt with at this event. Best in the Desert is committed to making some changes for Vegas to Reno to keep racers safer but still maintaining the challenge that Casey envisioned in this event when he created it.

BITD has 2 brand new events the next two months so bare with us a little to focus on those events and then we will communicate what plans are in place for the 2018 V2R.

We will make safer racing in areas within reasonable control. We will continue to evolve our series and ultimately have a positive impact on our sport.
$1200 per hour x2 birds is a lot, but really it isn't as bad as I expected... If the choppers are available for a straight 12-hour period it will be about $30,000 for the pair of them by my math and that doesn't seem that bad to me...

Thanks for the effort Dave and BITD... Someday I hope to run V2R and hope I will never need your race day safety services!!!
 

retroblazer

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$30 ,0000 split between 250 to 320 entries, approximately $95-$120 per racer. My wife would cut my private parts off if she knew I could get air coverage for $100 bucks, and didn't get it.


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Bro_Gill

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Retro- That isn't going to pay for a helicopter ride, that is to reserve it for stand-by status at the race, you will still get a huge transport bill if you don't have transport insurance coverage in your medical insurance or a separate rider for heli transport.
 

FIREJK

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I would like to help out I have raced off road motorcycles all my life and I work as a FF/EMT. Please let me know what you need help with.

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Mark_Weyhrich

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An R44 is an absolutely wrong airship for rescue. They barely work when not being used for rescue. Check statistics on copter crashes.

Good to know. I will be sure to let Jim McCoy and Rob Hackett know they have done the impossible; multiple times. I always knew they were good, but now I know they are legendary!!

Super proud they choose to be associated with our team.
 

retroblazer

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Retro- That isn't going to pay for a helicopter ride, that is to reserve it for stand-by status at the race, you will still get a huge transport bill if you don't have transport insurance coverage in your medical insurance or a separate rider for heli transport.

Fair enough, it sounds like everybody racing domestically should get an air evac policy. I now have pop up advertising showing policies starting at less than $200. Any recommendations for specialized providers or real world experience with collecting on a policy? I wouldn't want to trust my normal insurance provider to pay on a racing related event.
 
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