Thinking about the Parkhouse accident thread

[Dezertpilot]

Didn't want to comment in that thread as it wasn't the right area to talk about it. It has me thinking, I know that getting t-boned by another off road racer is probably pretty low vs other crash situations in racing. I am also aware that vehicles are built to a pretty high standard in regards to safety, but will builders now think a little more side impact collisions in their builds? I'm not sure what else could be done safety wise as I am not an engineer but I was thinking couldn't something like a "blanket" be applied to the sides of cars for this reason? This would be of similar material to bullet proof vests, the soft variety and how the material gives to absorb the bullet? I could be way off in my thinking but I'm sure no one wants to go through this type of accident in the future.

 

[y2kbaja]

As we're thinking about race vehicles that have been in accidents let's not forget this isn't new. Larry Deaton was T-boned in Laughlin in 1999 or 2000. He was driving a Chenowth Millenium. Standards haven't been changed really since then.

This accident in Baja could have been avoided more than likely but it wasn't. We should be thankful it happened ON the highway and NEAR chase crews that were able to help otherwise it could have been worse.

 

[Dezertpilot]

As we're thinking about race vehicles that have been in accidents let's not forget this isn't new. Larry Deaton was T-boned in Laughlin in 1999 or 2000. He was driving a Chenowth Millenium. Standards haven't been changed really since then.

This accident in Baja could have been avoided more than likely but it wasn't. We should be thankful it happened ON the highway and NEAR chase crews that were able to help otherwise it could have been worse.

I agree 100%. I dont know the history of this type of accident occurring but thought that discussion could never hurt either.

 

[Bro_Gill]

I believe Deaton was on his side and the other vehicle entered through the roof area. Huge difference. I also don'
t think the accident on the highway was a T-bone. I believe the 2 cars caught left front tires and tangled up. I do believe that even if both were at 60mph, it seems the damage to the spec truck was huge and might need to be looked at. Having spent the last 32 years dealing with thousands and thousands of car accidents on freeways, I would think a race car should hold up better than a Fiat.

 

[Jorge Rodriguez]

I believe Deaton was on his side and the other vehicle entered through the roof area. Huge difference. I also don'
t think the accident on the highway was a T-bone. I believe the 2 cars caught left front tires and tangled up. I do believe that even if both were at 60mph, it seems the damage to the spec truck was huge and might need to be looked at. Having spent the last 32 years dealing with thousands and thousands of car accidents on freeways, I would think a race car should hold up better than a Fiat.

I believe it was stated that the damage that is apparent to the TT Spec is from Jaws of Life use to extract the driver.

 

[Bro_Gill]

Regardless of what the Jaws of Life did, they didn't break his femur, Tib/fib, ribs, etc... There was intrusion into the foot space or the car was lacking in protection in the foot well area.

 

[Dezertpilot]

I believe it was stated that the damage that is apparent to the TT Spec is from Jaws of Life use to extract the driver.

Yes, sorry I said it was from getting t-boned, from the pictures that were posted the drivers side of the Spec TT was mangled.

If their was more room between the driver and the side of the vehicle could that have prevented the devastation to a degree? a Physical gap, their doesnt seem to be a lot of room between the drivers and the side of the vehicles from what I remember.

 

[Jorge Rodriguez]

Again, I believe that testing on the cage is the only thing that could help reduce injuries, but when I brought this up in another thread, I was an idiot for suggesting that someone spend the money to help reduce injuries and preserve lives.

 

[Dezertpilot]

Again, I believe that testing on the cage is the only thing that could help reduce injuries, but when I brought this up in another thread, I was an idiot for suggesting that someone spend the money to help reduce injuries and preserve lives.

I saw that thread, I understood where you were coming from. Constructive thinking never hurt anyone....

 

[Bro_Gill]

How many fabricators wold be up with making passenger compartments out like a Cup car? Minimum 3 door bars, etc...? How many couldn't due to packaging, like headers?

 

[Dezertpilot]

How many fabricators wold be up with making passenger compartments out like a Cup car? Minimum 3 door bars, etc...? How many couldn't due to packaging, like headers?

Anything could more than likely be engineered.

 

[Bro_Gill]

Yes, for new builds, absolutely, but for old builds, I think it would be tough or ugly. IMO, if they require it for new stuff, they should mandate it as a retrofit for the old stuff as well.

 

[johndjmix]

I was just over at wiks (literally an hour ago) picking up my truck and we were discussing this.

He was saying the dirt cars require a 1/8 steel plate or 3/8 alum around the driver area. This is bolted to the cage.

Think I'll probably do this on the next complete tear down.

--John


Trophylite #6013
Dunarri LLC
wildscooterparts.com
coolermods.com

 

[Jorge Rodriguez]

I was just over at wiks (literally an hour ago) picking up my truck and we were discussing this.

He was saying the dirt cars require a 1/8 steel plate or 3/8 alum around the driver area. This is bolted to the cage.

Think I'll probably do this on the next complete tear down.

--John


Trophylite #6013
Dunarri LLC
wildscooterparts.com
coolermods.com

Seems like a great idea.

It's just a fine line between being a garage privateer racer to actually having a sanctioning body with safety requirements and specifications. Hell I'm sure that even having full containment seats would avoid many injuries, but nothing is required except for a basic inspection. Not even head restraints are a requirement which is absurd to race without one.

 

[Jorge Rodriguez]

We all love the Wild West feel of racing in Baja until we need help or technology on our side.

 

[Goober]

I'm just can't figure out how the injuries are so much more severe in the truck. Are the designs that much different? I'd be curious what impacted his leg, aluminum from the dash?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Josh 8]

Look guys. It's a heart braking situation that happened. There's no doubt. And my heart goes out to the people that are involved.

Now that said, there is no way to minimize all the dangers of racing. In any format.

If you want to minimize the danger then go all the way and don't do it.

Now, the real issue is with score. Who ever heard of running a race one the same road with head on traffic for racers and chasers. This is stupid part that could have been easily avoided. There was a road just south of the highway a mile or two that could have had the east bound traffic on it but score didn't use it and they picked the highway with head on traffic. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. I just can't believe they would do this. And it not like they were not warned before hand. A lot of people saw the potential problem, warned score and they did nothing. THATS THE PROBLEM.

 

[vegasloki]

I was just over at wiks (literally an hour ago) picking up my truck and we were discussing this.

He was saying the dirt cars require a 1/8 steel plate or 3/8 alum around the driver area. This is bolted to the cage.

Think I'll probably do this on the next complete tear down.

Intrusion panels are common for circle track cars both dirt and pavement. That's in addition to door bars. In the classes I've run we had to weld the panels, no bolts allowed. Cup takes it a step further and they have a high density foam crush panel between the door skin and the door bars in addition to the intrusion panel.

It doesn't seem it's done in desert off road but cages and chassis structures are tested by others. Nascar tests them as well as the FIA and NHRA. Those along with the guidelines from those two and orgs like the SCCA and NASA (the sports car racers, not the space cadets...) and you'll get a good overview of design best practices.

Before anyone jumps to conclusions it's best to see what caused the injury and take it from there.

 

[JDDurfey]

Look guys. It's a heart braking situation that happened. There's no doubt. And my heart goes out to the people that are involved.

Now that said, there is no way to minimize all the dangers of racing. In any format.

If you want to minimize the danger then go all the way and don't do it.

Now, the real issue is with score. Who ever heard of running a race one the same road with head on traffic for racers and chasers. This is stupid part that could have been easily avoided. There was a road just south of the highway a mile or two that could have had the east bound traffic on it but score didn't use it and they picked the highway with head on traffic. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. I just can't believe they would do this. And it not like they were not warned before hand. A lot of people saw the potential problem, warned score and they did nothing. THATS THE PROBLEM.

I brought this up in two other threads talking about the accident. The 05 1000 course used this route and I would imagine that was not the only time that little cut off road was used.

I have very little time in a race car, I was mostly a bike racer. But from my view point, this accident is not the normal kind of accident that these race cars are built to withstand. Vehicle to vehicle collisions at these speeds are not the norm. Now someone who has been around a lot longer than me may be able to cite a couple of occasions where this has happened before, but out of all the thousands and thousands of miles raced, when would this head on collision have happened?

When has a builder had to take into consideration a frontal impact from another race car? They build the cars to handle roll overs, some rear "tapping" and build them to hold up to the abuse the terrain throws at them.

Perfect example, BJ's truck. It is one heck of a piece of machinery, but it didn't withstand the boulder. Thankfully they were not hurt, but if it had hit in the A pillar area instead of head on, what would the damage have been? But then you look at Pete's Bajalite, and it rolls over and is able to continue because he built it for that, but would it have been able to withstand a blow to the A pillar?

 

[Josh 8]

Or how about a head in crash with a loaded semi truck that drifts out of its lane. Do we have to build our race cars for that? There's a point that some one has to just give up and either accept the dangers or sit on the couch.

But again. This could have been avoided when the course was laid out. This wreck can be traced back to course lay out.