This is not good.......

TKowns

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I believe its not the drivers fault that he crashed into all those people, Ive heard that people put big rocks there before the race that he wasnt expecting to be there. I heard that he turned to avoid them but hit them and rolled into everyone, not sure how accurate that is. In offroad racing stuff like that happens, people get hit or die all the time from offroad races here in the states all the way to Mexico. Its not the drivers fault that he hits someone, the people shouldn't be that close to the track if they don't want to get hit. The drivers are in a race, they just want to have fun then people get to close and get hit and die, then possibly the racers career is over.
 

BGRANT

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I believe its not the drivers fault that he crashed into all those people, Ive heard that people put big rocks there before the race that he wasnt expecting to be there. I heard that he turned to avoid them but hit them and rolled into everyone, not sure how accurate that is. In offroad racing stuff like that happens, people get hit or die all the time from offroad races here in the states all the way to Mexico. Its not the drivers fault that he hits someone, the people shouldn't be that close to the track if they don't want to get hit. The drivers are in a race, they just want to have fun then people get to close and get hit and die, then possibly the racers career is over.

What? All the time? NOT true buddy.
 

coilover88

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You all seem to think the BLM should be responsible for paying for something here. Why? They didn't do anything wrong either. Do you think the outcome would have been different if they had 2 rangers there? 10? 100? Think about how much that would cost the racers. Pretty much each of those guys is getting overtime to patrol. Probably in the neighborhood of 30-45 bucks an hour on OT. If there was 10 of them there, at 35 bucks an hour for 10 hours, that is another 3500 bucks. If there were 100 of them, it's 35,000. That doesn't include admin fees or vehicle costs. And it still probbaly wouldn't have changed the outcome because unless you are gonna limit spectator areas to just a couple fenced in or you are gonna place a ranger every 1/4 mile to tell everyone to keep back, this was still gonna happen.

Bro, MORE now has an added BLM presence and their permits require a number of course monitors. The three races since this was in play have seen a significant reduction in the numbers of people too close to the course. Zero tolerance and immediate action to move people back DOES work. The added BLM staff puts teeth in the volunteer's efforts. Yes the extra staffing requires additional money (Cost Recovery via the Monitoring Assessment Matrix). Our entry fees have gone up $100 for both sportsman and pro classes. For a Benjamin we get to keep racing and do it in a manner that is much less likely to produce another tragedy. I just wanted to present you with the results of the practical application of your speculative comment. No offense intended---but it works for MORE.
 

Bro_Gill

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Coil- MORE has never really had the DGAF issues that MDR did. Different crowd types and attitudes. I have been going to MORE races since they literally had only 3 cars racing. For MORE , it has always been about families and fun in the desert racing. Can't really say the same with MDR and I raced in MDR after it took over for La Rana. The crows you saw at the Rock Pile was teh same type of crowd you saw at the Wall...and we know what happened to racing through the Wall. It is a different vibe and it would would not be the same reaction from the crowd at MORE as it would with MDR. Think along the lines of Glamis at the bottom of Comp Hill before that got shut down. The rangers from the BLM truly feared having to deal with that kind of crap and I don't blame them. Jim has a relationship with teh Bartsow BLM that few from any other organization share, and for a reason. The same reason that the racers respect his organization. He is a true off raod racer, first, last and always and really doesn't care if he makes money here, it is about the racing, not just collecting cash(I am sure he is happy with high car counts though!). You can't compare the 2 organizations or the types of racers that attend the different series. I want to say right now, I am not bashing all the MDR racers, but I also want to say that those of us who have been doing this stuff since before many of you were even born, let alone racing, knew that if something was gonna happen, it was gonna happen at an MDR race.
 

bighad

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wish I knew that....anyways, commence beating the dead horse fellas....continue to talk so distastefully about the dead folks....somehow in your little bubble it makes you feel good to speak so poorly. It is amazing that Bretts truck hurt me, and yet I can refrain from spewing such filth...and most of you not even there can so freely speak such insenstive words. I can only assume your representing a new off road mentality? I'll stick with my way..the "old way" fellas....
Praise in public and criticize in private.
Go on..beat it some more..I watched those people die..there..next to me..in a desolate desert...I spoke to the dude in the helo on the way to loma linda..nice guy..we even joked a bit...he died, next to me, at the hospital...they didn't seem like bad people..just regular folks..but I guess those of you that never met them feel the need to belittle them..so go on...
my family prays for their families healing....
 

Zynda

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This from comment post # 110:

"He was at this race volunterily just like how the men and women of the us armed forces choose to climb into a humvee and drive into town where they want to kill you."

I swear...How dumb are people?

In all fairness, I believe Sloppy has more of a case to sue those near the tracks.

And didn't this guy (Andrew) have life insurance? I'm wondering if the insurance company found him at fault for his death, so this is a way for her to raise money...In that case, an attorney could easily convince her to sue for compensation of the medical, funeral, and psychiatry (for the daughter) costs. In some ways, it's hard to blame her for that. Obviously, this is speculation and probably irrelevant to this topic.
 
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Zynda

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wish I knew that....anyways, commence beating the dead horse fellas....continue to talk so distastefully about the dead folks....somehow in your little bubble it makes you feel good to speak so poorly. It is amazing that Bretts truck hurt me, and yet I can refrain from spewing such filth...and most of you not even there can so freely speak such insenstive words. I can only assume your representing a new off road mentality? I'll stick with my way..the "old way" fellas....
Praise in public and criticize in private.
Go on..beat it some more..I watched those people die..there..next to me..in a desolate desert...I spoke to the dude in the helo on the way to loma linda..nice guy..we even joked a bit...he died, next to me, at the hospital...they didn't seem like bad people..just regular folks..but I guess those of you that never met them feel the need to belittle them..so go on...
my family prays for their families healing....

I haven't read any of what you describe in this thread. Many of these spectators made a choice to be within high-five distance of these cars on a live race course (watch the video). Unfortunately, that choice cost these individuals and their families dearly.

My earliest memories are of watching the SCORE Parker, Laughlin, and Mint races and I've been watching ever since. I know where spectators like to stand, but that doesn't mean I'd take the risk. It sucks, but that's what they chose to do and the second-worst possible outcome happened (the worst almost happened but he luckily forced his daughter to safety).

I can see no fault in what anyone else did. MDR and the BLM never told him to do it. They never even told him he was allowed to do it. They didn't tell him it was safe to do it. They prohibited it. In fact, they even erected signs to discourage it. ("it" being standing within 100 feet of a life race track)

Also, there is a lot of speculation about how this suit will pay out, whether MDR will file bankruptcy, how this will impact the sport, why the plaintiff took this route, etc.

Aside from discussing those topics, I don't see anyone talking distastefully about anybody. People are being frank and upfront. Would you rather people not tell you what they really think? If so, please watch CSPAN and listen to political radio. We aren't in our "little bubble(s)" in this discussion. The posters here are putting their views out there, archived forever on the internet, and not confining them to a small social circle. Your post seems to be asking RDC to keep their views within little bubbles. Nobody is belittling anybody as far as I can tell, but I'm not a very sensitive person and expect people to come out and say what they think, in general.

Also, I don't know what the "new off road race mentality" is, but I do know that a lot of people worry about how Sloppy is handling this emotional situation, how the sport they love will be impacted, and speculate why a lawsuit against an essentially innocent party was determined to be the best course of action. The reason I follow this post because I share the concerns and am curious as to how this will play out. If you are uncomfortable discussing the progress of this issue because of your emotional sensitivities to this topic and memories of the victims, then my advice would be to refrain from visiting this thread. I have a feeling that it will continue until the case is resolved.

I hope this clears things up. I know nobody means to offend anybody, but this seems like a frivolous lawsuit to me, personally, and to many others. I am also worried that the plaintiff could win the suit, as I've read about some crazy lawsuits. The case of the young man suing the city of New York for 10 million dollars after he paralyzed himself jumping off of a pier into shallow water (there were warning signs and a fence for him to negotiate first) comes to mind right away. He won that case and she could as well.
 

coilover88

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Bro_Gill, we have raced both series and left MDR for a reason so---point taken. I was responding to your opinion that larger numbers of BLM and/or volunteers being ineffective in spectator control. We all know that crowd control takes a coordinated effort between the sanction, BLM, LE, and volunteers. I just wanted to thank you for a fair opinion and will leave the MDR discussion for others!
 

buckwild

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After reading this today I called my mom and told her I was going to Laughlin next week for the race and if any thing happens to me don't sue. I put my life in my own hands. I think all the people on RDC should do the same before you go to a race
 

Chas Moore

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if any thing happens to me don't sue. I put my life in my own hands.

Told my parents the same. I control my life. If I were to die surfing, are they going to sue the lifeguards? No, I love it and accept all risks, same with desert racing. I am there on my own accord, I love racing, if I were to die because of it, at least it was doing something I enjoy.
 

bighad

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nicely stated. If your telling your mommy to not sue..well...I'll guess your age.
Have fun..be safe..2010 is gone..lets all hope for a safer and better 2011.
In racing, personal life..getting a better job..whatever it is your striving for. 2010 was a rough year for soo many folks..I can only hope it is better in 2011 for all of us. Most importantly i hope the victims of the 08-14 incident can learn to live again. I'm working hard every day to get better and stronger..to be back to myself. If i can do it, so can you brothers and sisters. This includes the helpers, racers, and everyone else who has been physically and emotionally moved by last years event. We move forward, with a smile on our face and hope in our eyes.
 

greg farkas

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I agree that sloppy should not be sued and will probably win in court because he was entered into a sanctioned race and should be covered under the promoters liability insurance. All the blame is on BLM for allowing the race to go on without proper paper work being done, fees being paid and their obvious "good buddy network". Read the report the only fees that were paid was the original filing fee. How is $95 supposed to pay for anything.
Then comes the real cause of the crash (notice I didnt use the word accident) MDR. Sir you chose profits over spectater safety. And since this is a for profit business you need to be held accountable. In the past there was temporary fencing up in that area. Why was it not put up this time. I know why because you didnt want to spend the money so you could profit more from the race. Sir how do you feel now about your extra profits and how do you think the hundreds of affected people feel, because you had nobody on site to do crowd control and didn't want to pay for a couple rolls of caution tape (like other promoters do). FYI $8.00 buys a 1000 feet of caution tape and you could afford it sir because you ran that race for $95.00.
Im glad that Andrews mom is sueing you sir and I hope she takes everything you have because you and your profits took her son away from her and her grand daughters dad away from her grandaughter for ever. Sir you also took my son away from me forever. His little brother misses him really bad sir
I agree with Andrews mom sueing MDR but not sloppy. She should go after the BLM instead.
Dont blame the spectators they were supposed to be protected that is why they require 6 months to come up with a plan to control the crowd. But BLM and MDR's "good buddy network" took presedence over spectator safety. Again $8.00 buys 1000 feet of caution tape
You RDZ guys need to open your eyes and actually think about what happened and quit bad mouthing somebody that is trying to recover for her loss and to help raise this little girl for 20 more years at least. Quit **** talking and put the blame where it belongs
 

Mark Newhan

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In all fairness I have gone into a crowd at the Plaster City races and told people to get back... needless to say without knowning who I am/was I was told to go F&*K myself. When others did the same thing they got the same result. The Rangers came out and told them... they did move but after he left they were saying... "Nazi" and "this is a free country". If the unspeakable would have happened, would the parents had been saying the same kind of things about their children.

Caution tape does not hold back anybody. Warnings do not have an impact when dealing with the crowd mentality. Unfortunately the "hardcore" fans will/are being the downfall of the sport as we know it. We are headed toward a closed course like BITD.

I still feel for you and your family Mr. Farkas...
 

JPBart

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I realize this is a very touchy subject but if you are going to post your opinion you have to be willing to get some feedback you won't always like. I am sorry for what happened but to say the spectators are not responsible for where they were standing is hard for me to accept. They knew it was a hot race course and chose to stand close enough to it so they could touch the passing race cars. BLM and MDR did not force them to stand there. I can accept that MDR dropped the ball by not putting up fencing but there needs to be acceptance that the spectators were standing where they wanted to be standing or they would have moved to a different spot. A tragedy for sure and once again, I am sorry for your loss.
 

greg farkas

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Look at race pictures every where on every photogtraphers website and look at all of those people standing behind those Penzoil flags. If the flags were up they would of been standing behind them. Pictures are worth a thousand words.
 

greg farkas

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Mark, caution tape does hold people back. The last "drive race" was an excellant excample of what caution tape and proper crowd control can do. There was nobody even close to the trrack. It was a perfect setup and well thought out.
 

Tipracer

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I realize this is a very touchy subject but if you are going to post your opinion you have to be willing to get some feedback you won't always like. I am sorry for what happened but to say the spectators are not responsible for where they were standing is hard for me to accept. They knew it was a hot race course and chose to stand close enough to it so they could touch the passing race cars. BLM and MDR did not force them to stand there. I can accept that MDR dropped the ball by not putting up fencing but there needs to be acceptance that the spectators were standing where they wanted to be standing or they would have moved to a different spot. A tragedy for sure and once again, I am sorry for your loss.

A lack of fear is not an excuse...I can not pretend to know or understand how the affected parties feel, but I can say that when I am spectating at a race my thoughts are primarily on the safety of myself and those around me…
 
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