Tortoise or the Hare in Desert racing?

Who wins more Desert races? the Tortoise or the Hare?


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Wendell #527

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in 1600 you go like hell 110% and hope for the best.
That is why everyone respects the 1600 guys. You guys are on the edge of wrecking the whole race! Dang fun to watch too, Brad. I think Barstow was built for 1600s.

I never wanted to be the turtle because even if everyone else breaks and you win you’d feel like a loser. Well I would, anyway. Plus it does depend on the class.
 

MTPyle

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7200 is limited in width (I think 87” wide?) and 6cyl but they can have forced induction.

The honda truck is light and has a twin turbo v6 that’s big power. It’s a really fast truck. I bet that truck is 4000lbs and 800hp compared to 6100 6000lb and 535hp

and the honda team is legit as heck. They are dialed in and no joke. I think they even have matching team shoes. LOL

Mike
 

OFFRD-JNKIE

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7200 is limited in width (I think 87” wide?) and 6cyl but they can have forced induction.

The honda truck is light and has a twin turbo v6 that’s big power. It’s a really fast truck. I bet that truck is 4000lbs and 800hp compared to 6100 6000lb and 535hp

and the honda team is legit as heck. They are dialed in and no joke. I think they even have matching team shoes. LOL

Mike
Mike we leave the matching shoes to the drivers...lol
I think an equalizer so to speak between the Honda and 6100 while we might have more HP the truck doesn't make a lot of torque which is why we run the Albins trans and not a turbo 400 with an underdrive.
All I know is the team is looking forward to KOH and another opportunity to race!
 

51rcr

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take 110% driver and have them run 75%. what is it. you cant make a slow driver fast but you can slow down a fast driver? He needs a good co driver to back him down. flats take time and the risk of crashing and bigger damage is not worth the speed percentage difference. the overall speed is slower. class 11 is a a great class for just keep moving. or if you cant finish a race you cant win.
As of now my truck wont run till the 3rd lap. but the more and more i see sprint race and winner takes all i think different. But then i think half the field is gone in under a half a lap. the classic first 10 miles yard sale.
 

JDDurfey

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I am not a fan of the phrase "Smoother is Faster" because it isn't always true. You can be smooth as glass and be slow as molasses. However, I am a firm believer that not being smooth can definitely be slower and bite you in the butt as you are working on your ride on the side of the race course.

I do think it is easier to slow down a fast driver that it is to speed up a slow driver.

Does your son race motorcycles at all? If you are not smooth on a bike it will bite you big time when you crash. I think that is a good place to learn to be smooth and pick good lines. I have not known many good bike racers that moved into 4 wheels that didn't take care of their equipment and drive smooth.

Ultimately I believe seat time or handlebar time is the key to being good. Some people have a natural talent. I didn't have that, I worked my butt off practicing. I rode and rode and rode my dirt bike and I still was never anyone famous on a bike. I wasn't the fastest, but I rarely DNFed. And I never crashed my team out of a Baja race.
 

dan200

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7200 is limited in width (I think 87” wide?) and 6cyl but they can have forced induction.

The honda truck is light and has a twin turbo v6 that’s big power. It’s a really fast truck. I bet that truck is 4000lbs and 800hp compared to 6100 6000lb and 535hp

and the honda team is legit as heck. They are dialed in and no joke. I think they even have matching team shoes. LOL

Mike
The truck is a rocket for sure BUT its no where near 800hp. You are more than a couple hundred horses off.

For real, its a ridgeline block that's punched out and has some Wasabi Windmills spinning on her. The strength is the truck. TSCO made us a quick little truck. Suspension has been dialed by some of the best in the business and the prep is always top notch. The fellas can drive too. Still we got whooped a couple times this year. Hit some stuff and had down time probably because we were being the hare. The tortious beat us a few times. Still, If you are running to win in a large class I still feel like ya gotta run at 110 percent.

The secret isn't the shoes. Its the booty shorts.

HONDA PANTS.jpg
 

green787

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I WON the Tortoise award at MDR.....!!!! Can anyone else claim that status....????
 

MTPyle

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JD

yes we ride dirt bikes and it helps a lot. We are heading down to ride our dirt bikes in the KOH to get out bearings.

You are right seat time is what really matters. I don’t know if anyone comes with a natural talent to race off-road. We are always amazed when we look back at older in car videos. We are incredibly faster than we were the first year.

my youngest son Carson (17) is Connors Co driver and he is relaxed and calm most of the time. So they balance each other out. Connors biggest issue is his chemical balance. LOL kids these days have so many uppers and downers they use. At V2R Connor was way too high strung. I think he was on 10 kinds of energy drinks, vape, and vitamins. LOL. If we get him chemically balanced he is much smoother. Haha.

I think for our team at KOH Connor and Carson are our best chances of getting on the podium. Especially since I know they will qualify better than I will. We have absolute confidence in the Toyo tires so as long as we don’t bend a wheel we are good.

Mike
 

J Prich

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Some of this strategy definitely depends on class. When you have a lot of entries, the chances of at least one team having a clean ish day means you have to push. But in the smaller limited classes, some races are still as much about survival as they are about speed. It's kind of a non answer in a way but I feel like for most classes the key is to find the right balance between speed and durability, pushing the needle as far towards the durability side as you can without crossing it. I would also venture to guess that some of the fastest TT type guys would say it's not just about going fast, it's about knowing WHEN to go fast.
 
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dan200

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One year at silverstate in TT we won qualifying and then lead all day on race day. (Josh Daniel in the TTTT). We had Tavo just outside of the rearview waiting for us to screw up. The Pit strategy was pretty fluid and changed all day. What he was doing (Fuel, tires etc.) mattered as much as what we were doing. And that worked in reverse too. We only had to beat him by a minute but we had to decide the pace. It was nuts mentally telling a guy go fast but not tooo fast but now go too fast because the other guy got some gains on us.

We actually set the "record for TT top speed" (during a race) that day at like 148 or something. (I hear a class one once got to 151 once so maybe we dont have the real high score but for sure we did that day.

And then 8 miles from the finish at cruising speed on a graded road the rear end let go.

DNF. But we won the Silverstate 292. :rolleyes:

Josh is for sure my favorite TT racer. Dude is cool, smart and can wheel. AND HE WIL NEVER BE THE TORTISE.
 

J Prich

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One year at silverstate in TT we won qualifying and then lead all day on race day. (Josh Daniel in the TTTT). We had Tavo just outside of the rearview waiting for us to screw up. The Pit strategy was pretty fluid and changed all day. What he was doing (Fuel, tires etc.) mattered as much as what we were doing. And that worked in reverse too. We only had to beat him by a minute but we had to decide the pace. It was nuts mentally telling a guy go fast but not tooo fast but now go too fast because the other guy got some gains on us.

We actually set the "record for TT top speed" (during a race) that day at like 148 or something. (I hear a class one once got to 151 once so maybe we dont have the real high score but for sure we did that day.

And then 8 miles from the finish at cruising speed on a graded road the rear end let go.

DNF. But we won the Silverstate 292. :rolleyes:

Josh is for sure my favorite TT racer. Dude is cool, smart and can wheel. AND HE WIL NEVER BE THE TORTISE.
Josh is definitely on the "hare" list.
 

KTB Racing

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I am still very much a rookie in this sport but I’ll put in my two cents. I firmly believe in the saying “Slower is smoother and smoother is faster”, and I think it applies to the mindset while driving just as much as it applies to the actual physical driving. I think there are times when being calm and patient is the fastest and times where going balls to the wall is the fastest, and the drivers who can find the right balance will be the most successful.

I don’t think there is one definitive answer as to whether it’s better to be the tortoise or the hare, I think it’s more dependent on the class and the particular race. Ideally, you would learn to be both and apply when necessary lol.
 

GATRELL

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1999 SCORE Laughlin day 2 Trophy Truck race was won by a hare. A VERY slow hare but it is technically possible.
 

bajafox

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Andy did a front flip at the Baja 250 a few years ago and still won. But I dont think the laws of physics apply to Andy
 

JDDurfey

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If you look at the last two Baja 1000 speeds you will see there isn't much place for the "tortoise" in desert racing anymore. Typically the 1000 is a strategic game of conserving equipment and knowing when to push.

But the Ampudia's showed the world two years ago that they were not going to play that game and the pushed from the start. It was a gamble and it worked for them. They ran away from the field. They had a big enough lead at the halfway point a flat tire would not have cost them a position. I think they had about a 20 minute lead at that point.

So I was not surprised this year when they used the same strategy. However, two other TTs took the same approach and didn't let them run away with it. Dan M and Bean were definitely not a tortoise. Larry and Luke were not either. Those three trucks were on fire! Would Dan and Luke have gone as fast without Ampudia pushing them? We will never know.

At the end of the day, one of the three "Hares" won the race. I know Dan was sidelined with a mechanical, but until that point I would call him a Hare since he was leading for 2/3rds of the race.

To win these days your equipment must be in tip top shape and you are going to have to GET IT from the start to the finish in my opinion. The only time a tortoise wins is when the Hare breaks down.
 

Dhigbee

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Ok sorry for getting off topic.

still interested in what people think about faster compared to safer driver

I have never been in a truck with Luke Mcmillin but Jason Duncan told me they do not drive super crazy fast. But Luke and Jason have had an amazing record over the last year or so.

I have watched videos of Luke and he seems damn fast to me but he sure does seem to be consistent and smooth.

still not sure what we will do for KOH. We may go with the high risk high reward option. No reason to go slower and let that damn honda beat us. If we have any chance of beating the Bullies in the unlimited vehicles we need to go 110%

Mike
We always finish, one dnf in 7 years. We have a couple of championships but a lot of 2nd, 3rds, 4ths and have come in at the end of the year typically in 2nd. We always show up to win, but if I could turn back the clock I would have varied my set ups and pushed the edge a little more .
 

Honda48X

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Go with your boy. Get him in a truck with some winners and let them teach him the right spots to put the hammer down and the other spots to slow down.
 
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