Toyota A-arm swap for I-beam ???

NoPavementRacer

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I have been racing with the A-arm toyota for about 4 years now and and have had my share of problems. I am at the point of changing my front end and would like the opinion of the racers who have experiance with each set up. Both set ups are going to be about the same price so I want what is going to work the best for racing. This is for a RACE only vehicle and needs to be durable enought for the Baja 1000.

I don't think there are too many who have converted their Toyotas to I-beam but I might be surpised.

From asking around it seems like the Ford guys say I-beam and the Toyota guys sware on A-arm.

Feel free to PM me if you dont want your Toyota team to know your opinion.
 

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Giant Geoff

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I have an I-beam conversion for Toyotas.
This kit can get up to 21"of wheel travel.

Advantages over A-arms kits

-More space an pushes the wheels forward 3”
-Only need one shock
-Less maintenance
-More reliable
-Handle better
-Stronger steering
-Hiem ware is no problem
-Performance is better
-Easier to tune
-Easier to work on
-More wheel travel

Being around I-beams for so long I realized, the only time I work on them is when I crash.
If I ever hit something way to hard, do to driver era, it will at best break a rim or the steering wheel will be a little off.

http://giantmotorsports.com/content/view/24/48/
 

Jerry Zaiden

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From a cost point of view they will both be about the same price parts wise when using billet hubs, larger brakes, and getting away from stock ball joints. But it will be a lot more labor to convert to I-beams.

If you have the money I would get a full custom race kit made. Boxed lower arm with 1" uniball lower pivots and a 1.5" lower uniball to replace your ball joint, a custom race spindle with billet hubs, and an upper A-Arm that pivots from re-enforced upper mounts. This kit would be something like this...

droop%20driver%20side.jpg


lower%20arm.jpg


Same kit that is on this truck...

truck1.jpg


Now from the looks of the picture you posted you have a 4x4 1987-1995 older Toyota truck converted to 2wd. I would love to make a full race kit for these trucks. If you are interested send me an e-mail to jerry@camburg.com
 

motorhead

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I have an I-beam conversion for Toyotas.
This kit can get up to 21"of wheel travel.

Advantages over A-arms kits

-More space an pushes the wheels forward 3”
-Only need one shock
-Less maintenance
-More reliable
-Handle better
-Stronger steering
-Hiem ware is no problem
-Performance is better
-Easier to tune
-Easier to work on
-More wheel travel

Being around I-beams for so long I realized, the only time I work on them is when I crash.
If I ever hit something way to hard, do to driver era, it will at best break a rim or the steering wheel will be a little off.

http://giantmotorsports.com/content/view/24/48/

I'll agree on most of your I-beam advantages but why do you think they handle and perform better compared to an a-arm "race" kit? From research I've done, I-beam geometry isn't exactly ideal, primarily because of bumpsteer created by extreme negative camber and KPI at bump when TURNING. When the truck is pointed strait both an a-arm and I-beam setup can cycle without bumpsteer. Hopefully, I don't sound argumentative, I would like to know if my I-beam understanding is wrong.
 

matt_helton

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I have been racing with the A-arm toyota for about 4 years now and and have had my share of problems. I am at the point of changing my front end and would like the opinion of the racers who have experiance with each set up. Both set ups are going to be about the same price so I want what is going to work the best for racing. This is for a RACE only vehicle and needs to be durable enought for the Baja 1000.

I don't think there are too many who have converted their Toyotas to I-beam but I might be surpised.

From asking around it seems like the Ford guys say I-beam and the Toyota guys sware on A-arm.

Feel free to PM me if you dont want your Toyota team to know your opinion.

the only people ive know that have destroyed gen 2 kits or other kits like you did are the people that hit some really big holes or really big rocks........or the kits were very old, very abused and under maintained(never checked for initial signs of fatigue)......thousands of people all over the word thrash on and race on gen 2 kits with great sucess.

i will not downplay the awesomeness of geoff's beam kit. deffinetly a great setup and race proven on many trucks, however its alot of work to install.

i still say that best bang for your buck with a fair price and a kit that is bolt-on is the TC gen 3 kit. thousands of hard race miles have now been logged on this kit by myself and many others over the past 3 years. the kit cycles a clean and HONEST 15" of wheel travel which when controlled properly by a quality shock setup is plenty to go fast through some gnarly terrain and even conquer baja as you say you want to do. another bonus to the TC kit is that the customer service it great and the entire TC crew is at a locos mocos pit at every SCORE mexico race, as well as many MDR races and SNORE races. they bend over backwards to support their customers on the race track. matt and nicole are a class act. they were one of my greatest sponsors and without them i couldnt have won my class and overall championship back in 06.

heres a gen 3 kit in action if you care to look. http://www.fw-productions.com/movies/helton2006.wmv

and a classic photo or three. :)
Helton202.jpg

aMDRnightrace072.jpg

SV100689-1.jpg



and of course the link to the kit on the TC website. feel free to call their shop anytime and talk to Pat about the kit. he knows me and my truck very well.

http://www.chaosfab.com/95301.html


:)
 
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Giant Geoff

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I'll agree on most of your I-beam advantages but why do you think they handle and perform better compared to an a-arm "race" kit? From research I've done, I-beam geometry isn't exactly ideal, primarily because of bumpsteer created by extreme negative camber and KPI at bump when TURNING. When the truck is pointed strait both an a-arm and I-beam setup can cycle without bumpsteer. Hopefully, I don't sound argumentative, I would like to know if my I-beam understanding is wrong.

Your right on pager it is just not right in any sense of the matter but the increase camber and caster changes is a huge benefit in the dirt, specially when banging thru whooped out turns.
Just go for a ride in a beam truck, there are much smoother and more comparable, with the length of the beams, there is much less stress on the frame plus the lower spring rates and vavling allows you to only need 1 coil over shock and no hydro bump.



Matt it’s all good; I know how Toyota pride can cloud a parson’s mind, it’s a sad incurable problem that I except. Haha
 

motorhead

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Your right on pager it is just not right in any sense of the matter but the increase camber and caster changes is a huge benefit in the dirt, specially when banging thru whooped out turns.
Just go for a ride in a beam truck, there are much smoother and more comparable, with the length of the beams, there is much less stress on the frame plus the lower spring rates and vavling allows you to only need 1 coil over shock and no hydro bump.

The excessive negative camber, I agree would help the outside tire carve better in a corner. I guess I will have to wait untill I get a chance to drive an I-beam vehicle before I make any solid conclusions.
 

NoPavementRacer

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Keep it goint... All of your points are good. I knew that I would get the response from those who race on each. If one system was really that much better everyone would use that type.

Now all you guys have done is get me confused.

I really want to get this truck put back together and back to racing. So I need to make a decision soon.
 

Chas Moore

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Keep it goint... All of your points are good. I knew that I would get the response from those who race on each. If one system was really that much better everyone would use that type.

Not trying to start a war, but why do tt/c1's use A-Arm systems if there is so many benefits to I-Beam?
 

Giant Geoff

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Not trying to start a war, but why do tt/c1's use A-Arm systems if there is so many benefits to I-Beam?

Center mounted A-arms are ideal for class 1 and ease to do because the motors in the back and out of the way. A TT cab is 15” wider then a full size truck, the nose is 12” longer and the motor is pushed back 18” giving you the space need to do the center mounted arms
Trying to do a center mounted A-arms on a full size or a mini truck is ideal but not practical. A small Toyota is very very difficult and very expensive, just bolting on a kit with 1 coil over is very compacted. Beams put your suspension on the bottom of the truck freeing up tons of room on the Toyota, plus your wheels can more forward 3-4” (with out having to more the steering box), this helps so you don’t have to cut into the inner fender well for tire clearance and make more room on the side of the frame.

Here’s a video of a beam truck passing some class 1 cars.
http://www.dirtclub.com/index.php/videos/view/148
 

NoPavementRacer

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Great vid. Thanks Geoff.

again.... why no "beep" "beep" on the passing. even a nerf without a beep. I have been nerfed without hearing a beep but it is usually because I can't hear a horn behind me.

What happened at 8:20ish on the vid. looks like the truck rolled on the side then uprighted. The Kid on the atv was must have **BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME** is pants.

Thanks again.
 

partybarge_pilot

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NoPavementRacer

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This shows indications of a lack of prep. Bolt and uniball failure.....And then arm failure caused by stress after it came apart from bolt and uniball failure.

Good thought and I know that could be the cause. But, this happened after new bolts and uniballs where put in during prep. The failure happend 17 mi. into the race.
I am not looking into the cause of the damage because I have my own thoughts of why it happened, and I dont think TC was at fault.

My reason for the post is to get the opinion of those who race on each type of set up and those who have changed from A-arm to I-beam. I have always raced with a-arms but my team wants to change to I-beam (ford guys).

Thanks to all those who have posted thus far. you have been very helpful.
 
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