Unhappy Baja Rancher

summerinmaine

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And from what I've witnessed and learned... it's usually "pre-running freeloaders" who are NOT racing the event. Not always... but more often than not. SUCKS!

You make a good point! On a related note, the Weatherman has to rant every year about stuck mikes and illegal amplifiers screwing up the radio links (and in the last few Bajas, always in the time immediately before and during the first starts). It has occurred to me that these screw-ups could easily be the result of "fellow travelers" and could even be done intentionally. There are more than a few folks who seem to get their jollies screwing things up for everyone else (I guess to them negative attention is better than the no attention they deserve).

At least with gates, it's possible to catch a few in the act, and give them the reward they so richly deserve. With radio glitches, I don't see how.
 

DWALSH

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this is just specualtion? but maybe? a factory class 22 team who is hoping to win...stold the gate and will return it on Friday evening.. and say they found it and now should be rewarded for returning it.. payment..? only let the factory team through and lock it for all the other racers....i swear that's what happened to me last 500 ...and i was the lucky one who spent 7 minutes untying a wired shut gate... LOL...
 

eastcounty61

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Lopezzz... I saw that too as I blazed across it. (pulled a small wheelie to help avoid it)
It wasn't there on Saturday. But evident it was put there on Sunday, or overnight.

Probably for a wheel spinning biker to have it wrap up in his spokes/hub... which has the ability to break a hub inhalf. Not cool.

yea when i hit it i thought o theres a flat and a mess in my hub of barbed wire but my bike was fine so i just cut it and got it off and away from the course since it wasnt a fence
 

Jorge Rodriguez

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We've been there and argued that. Not going down that road again. If you don't like SCORE, don't come to the races. Simple as that. SCORE busts their *** and has laid down some new, great course so I can't wait!

see, I don't get why you take that stand point when it is us who pay to race, we are SCORE's customers, we are their clients, why treat their clients so rudely, why not lay all the cards down, I don't mind what we have to pay to race, just tell us where the money is really going, and treat this like the business that it is and treat your clients with the respect that they deserve for paying for your events, don't just shut us up, and really, where do the land fees and radio fees go, land fees are about 30,000.00 Dlls per race, why did the ranchers not get that offered, why does the city have to pay the ranchers, don't disguise where the money really goes...
 

summerinmaine

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see, I don't get why you take that stand point when it is us who pay to race, we are SCORE's customers, we are their clients, why treat their clients so rudely, why not lay all the cards down, I don't mind what we have to pay to race, just tell us where the money is really going, and treat this like the business that it is and treat your clients with the respect that they deserve for paying for your events, don't just shut us up, and really, where do the land fees and radio fees go, land fees are about 30,000.00 Dlls per race, why did the ranchers not get that offered, why does the city have to pay the ranchers, don't disguise where the money really goes...

Do you ask the same questions of every business you deal with? Your insurance company, doctor, grocery store, etc?

Why should a private business like SCORE have to account to you for their business operations, balance sheet, profits, etc.????
 

Jorge Rodriguez

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if there is a doubt as to what I am paying, of course, are you really going to tell me that you don't like to know where your money is going? an what you are paying for, it's like at a restaurant where they charge a lot, you look it over to see what you are paying for, right?
 

summerinmaine

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if there is a doubt as to what I am paying, of course, are you really going to tell me that you don't like to know where your money is going? an what you are paying for, it's like at a restaurant where they charge a lot, you look it over to see what you are paying for, right?

At a restaurant, I know where my money is going: The meal, and I eat what I paid for. I review the bill, to make sure that I was charged for everything I received. If the meal was unsatisfactory, or not worth the cost (in my subjective opinion), I usually don't go back.

But whether I liked the meal or not, I don't expect or demand to know how much they paid for the raw ingredients, the labor costs, the overhead (and the under the table bribes to the health inspectors :D ), etc. Why should that be any of my business? I came for a meal, not to get into the restaurant business.

If SCORE were a club, and you were a member, I could understand your interest. But AFAIK it is not, and you are not, so I'm truly at a loss to understand why you feel that SCORE should open its books to you. :confused:
 

01_el_tiburon

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At a restaurant, I know where my money is going: The meal, and I eat what I paid for. I review the bill, to make sure that I was charged for everything I received. If the meal was unsatisfactory, or not worth the cost (in my subjective opinion), I usually don't go back.

But whether I liked the meal or not, I don't expect or demand to know how much they paid for the raw ingredients, the labor costs, the overhead (and the under the table bribes to the health inspectors :D ), etc. Why should that be any of my business? I came for a meal, not to get into the restaurant business.

If SCORE were a club, and you were a member, I could understand your interest. But AFAIK it is not, and you are not, so I'm truly at a loss to understand why you feel that SCORE should open its books to you. :confused:

I agree SCORE doesnt have to explain, but every time some "unhappy rancher" story comes up, most of the people on this board say its a greedy mexican, all out of speculation bordering on racism. San Felipe Ejido owners has always been pissed off cause they dont get aproached till its race time and all planing has been done, without their approval yet. Its not always a dollar issue, its how they treat the Land owners where SCORE makes its money. If i was SCORE it be a little bit more considerate of those ranchers. Some poeple (scaronis among others) have had the great idea to provide cattle guards and gates for the ranchers, but it should be SCORE taking care of the land owners that make racing possible. Some poeple say, it the City's responsability because of the income generated, true. But SCOREs aparent attitude for the last years has been one of "..take care of me or i wont come back... " , when and if this happened, Baja wouldnt have a SCORE off road race, but SCORE would be worst off not having a Baja race, especially after all the land closures in the US and BITD being the best US run offroad organization.
In conclussion, SCORE should better their PR and buisness practices, not necesarilly disclose their financial info.

JR Syko says , if you dont like SCORE, dont come, when its actually, if you cant respect Mexicos culture and laws, You shouldnt come. SCORE doesnt own Baja.
God Bless Sal for puting up with this...?? What else can he do ?? Change venues to Sonora where he still has to negotiate with new land owners ? California ? Forfeit his income ? its like saying god bless American Airlines for still flying....God please do bless SAL for the great person/racing icon he is is more like it.

Some will say ive got a personal thing against SCORE and/or Sal, not true. Its again people on this board who post ignorant pompass *** comments without facts, thinking its better than anybody elses just cause their americans. "if you dont like it, dont come" comments are like stiking your hand in the sand, or somewhere else...

Like somebody posted, its al about Karma....See ya at the races....


el tiburon
 

summerinmaine

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ET:

Thanks for your views. I'm also troubled by the attitudes I see displayed in some posts. When I go to Baja, I recognize that I'm a guest in a different culture and try to act accordingly. I'm trying hard to improve my Spanish, and have been helping out with some of the charitable efforts as well.

And I agree that there are probably a number of ways that SCORE could improve the overall interactions with the local community, but I'm not in a good position to critique. I was just confused by the interest in SCORE's financial arrangements, as that analysis doesn't seem to address the issues you raise.

Buena suerte next week, and if you swing by RM186, stop for a cold one. :D
 

01_el_tiburon

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ET:

Thanks for your views. I'm also troubled by the attitudes I see displayed in some posts. When I go to Baja, I recognize that I'm a guest in a different culture and try to act accordingly. I'm trying hard to improve my Spanish, and have been helping out with some of the charitable efforts as well.

And I agree that there are probably a number of ways that SCORE could improve the overall interactions with the local community, but I'm not in a good position to critique. I was just confused by the interest in SCORE's financial arrangements, as that analysis doesn't seem to address the issues you raise.

Buena suerte next week, and if you swing by RM186, stop for a cold one. :D

SALUD...
 

PRECEPTS

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Some will say ive got a personal thing against SCORE and/or Sal, not true. Its again people on this board who post ignorant pompass *** comments without facts, thinking its better than anybody elses just cause their americans. "if you dont like it, dont come" comments are like stiking your hand in the sand, or somewhere else...

Like somebody posted, its al about Karma....See ya at the races....


el tiburon

It's hard for me to believe that Sal could stay in business this long by screwing all the land owners. I made a point of stating that this Rancher did NOT ask for money. But he was going out of his way to block the course, "THE GATE" wasn't really a gate, it was made not to be moved,(hard wired) but somebody disconnected it and moved it, and that is why he was hot. But here is the logic check, what sense would it make for SCORE to send us through there if they didn't have the right to use that property in the first place? Sal's not stupid, he's not going to intentionally make a course through this guy's land without permission. The guy did let us through after he vented for a while, but if we had no right to be there, why would he let us go ahead and not make us turn around? I posted this because from my perspective there was more to this story than meets the eye. I was hoping someone out could shed some light on the situation.
 

01_el_tiburon

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It's hard for me to believe that Sal could stay in business this long by screwing all the land owners. I made a point of stating that this Rancher did NOT ask for money. But he was going out of his way to block the course, "THE GATE" wasn't really a gate, it was made not to be moved,(hard wired) but somebody disconnected it and moved it, and that is why he was hot. But here is the logic check, what sense would it make for SCORE to send us through there if they didn't have the right to use that property in the first place? Sal's not stupid, he's not going to intentionally make a course through this guy's land without permission. The guy did let us through after he vented for a while, but if we had no right to be there, why would he let us go ahead and not make us turn around? I posted this because from my perspective there was more to this story than meets the eye. I was hoping someone out could shed some light on the situation.


Absolutely agree with you, and i understand you cant have EVERYBODY happy.. Just trying to give an overall picture and also point negros comments on the right direction.
Its not what score does with its money, its what hasnt been done by score to keep the land owners on his side....

el tiburon
 

Jorge Rodriguez

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Absolutely agree with you, and i understand you cant have EVERYBODY happy.. Just trying to give an overall picture and also point negros comments on the right direction.
Its not what score does with its money, its what hasnt been done by score to keep the land owners on his side....

el tiburon

hey Tiburon, thank you very much, you usually have valid points and I appreciate your point of view, I am not trying to start problems, I just wish the ranchers and SCORE could get along, it benifits, us the racers, SCORE, and the city where the race is held, but I also feel that the ranchers need a little more incentive to want us to come back, ever since I was younger, I remember hearing about ranchers wanting to put up barbed and baracades, I think that SCORE has been at this long enough and I feel that they should have a better relation, oh well...
 

evi

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I actually agree with Negro about where the funds go, I mean tell the truth call a spade a spade, If SCORE says the racing the 500 will be 4000 dlls Period, we'll all just shut up and pay it. But if he says its 3000 + 200 Land Use Fee + 150 Communications fee + this fee and that Fee... We expect those fees to go to their rightful place and not Sal's pocket.

So just say it will be 3000 or 4000 or whatever amount, and do what ever you want with the money we really don't care.

By the way Jr.. don't we all pay 75 dlls a year for score MEMBERSHIP???

Cheers.
 
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What if you found out it was the Mayor of Ensenada’s office that contacted the ranchers up in the new section and overlooked the one dissatisfied rancher. Then when Prerunners reported the problem to SCORE, SCORE contacted the Mayor's office and they sent someone up last Monday to straighten up the situation. Would you feel as ignorant as you would if you found out that all the complaining you did about the viewing situation at Laughlin was all the responsibility of Laughlin's and not SCORE’s responsibility or even their right to control.

Have I said before, “You don’t know what you’re talking about”? Well I’ll say it again: You don’t know what you’re talking about!
 

01_el_tiburon

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.... the viewing situation at Laughlin was all the responsibility of Laughlin's and not SCORE’s responsibility or even their right to control.

Have I said before, “You don’t know what you’re talking about”? Well I’ll say it again: You don’t know what you’re talking about!

Enlighten me, San Felipe was unreasolvable ? Could it have been resolved with what 1 big team had to spend to relocate their teams, not including the headaches ? Shouldnt Laughlin be considered unresovable at least as a spectator race ? Why would you hold an event where you have no control ? Why not explain the Post win ? Why wasnt the cutoff where Jones flew off of marked ? Doesnt SCORE as a buisness, need to keep its customers, be it racers or fans, happy? Is it OK to say there`s a lack of control ?
SCORE is and wil continue to be,by far, the premier racing organization, Sal is a super classy person, But if you cant take critisicm from your customers and construct something good around it, things can and will eventually only get worst. ..If you dont say what happened or explain or if you reply with ".. ..if you dont like it dont come sound like..Yeah ,weve made mistakes, i could explain but we dont give a shiet, we are Numero Uno, pay up or shut up...."
Why not try to see the other side of things ? i know my side is not all peachy either man. Just your/my insider look of things, ill tell you the mexican and some racers side of it with a beer anytime. You know its a long long story...

I just hope they dont pull a !you won! or ..sorry you didnt win.. on the VW`s

God Bless and be safe

el tiburon
 

bprater

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We expect those fees to go to their rightful place and not Sal's pocket.

Who was it that told you "those fee's" were ending up in "Sal's pocket" rather than going "to their rightful place"?

I'm sure everyone is very interested to hear. Also when you let us know don't forget
to provide some evidence to back up your accusations.

Thanks in advance for your diligence.:)
 
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