up date class 9

yachtman

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want to know how every one feels about doing some changes to the rules? what about IRS ? Brakes?
 

yachtman

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just trying to see if its worth all the trouble. Lots of class 9 sitting around doing nothing.
 

Bro_Gill

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I would wait to see if ANY OTHER ORGS are in too.
Not trying to be snippy and I like that you asked, but it isnt just not being IRS that is keeping class 9 numbers down at SCORE. If the promoters got together to address WHY the limited cars are fewer and farther beteween, or even non-existent at the high dollar races, and how to foster more participation from low budget teams, that might be better. Thank you for asking.
 

tapeworm

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Looks like a good field at snore/more night race. Rule changes make people disappear
They also bring people back. Look at Class 5 for example. Class 10 before and after the ecotech. Yes, they can also kill a class like 5-16, but rule changes don't just kill classes, they can help them too.
 

Speedingjake

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Kind of a newbie, but I know the transaxles are stupid money to maintain to be competitive. Keep it a swing axle, limit it to 9" of travel and stock max width. Anything else goes...... for the trans.
Whatever brakes or drums. Whatever tire or wheel.
 

tapeworm

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Just open up the trans. I don’t think allowing any internals is going to drive competition away. The rear is limited by suspension travel as it is now anyways. If you try to pull too much travel out of the rear you snap axles. I’ve already learned this. Also, how are you going to measure travel in post tech reliably from one car to another when they are all different? No 9 car chassis are the same these days.

If anyone wants to drastically change the rules to IRS with a balljoint front end it would take at least 5 of us to convert cars and make a new class, keep tabs of what it cost to do the swap from a competitive car, and how much it cost to maintain it over a season before it makes sense to say let’s completely change the rear suspension. People would have to be willing to spend the money on a risk that the changes might not be a better option and I don’t think there are enough people willing to do that.
 

Speedingjake

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No IRS, Class Nine should stay a swing axle. Measure travel?? full droop to bump stop travel is what I was thinking? Plus or minus a tolerance?
 

Bro_Gill

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As it stands right now, axle travel is limited by design. There are other options for axles, but so far, the trans builders are saying it isn't feasible for a 9 car. Creates more problems that it solves. Suspension travel is not the issue. Transmissions that cost more and last less than a mildly built bus box is what the issue is. I think everyone is fine with the wheel travel as it stands. The other issue is when parts like brake drums, which do not work as well as a disc set-up, but are approaching higher costs and are harder to get make keeping a rule like that seem dumb. FWIW, apparently Napa is getting GERMAN brake drums in some locations- 79 bucks for type 1 rears. No, I don't know all the specifics. A friend had to replace a drum and was shocked when the one he bought was stamped Germany. This was yesterday and he told me about it this morning.
 

tapeworm

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No IRS, Class Nine should stay a swing axle. Measure travel?? full droop to bump stop travel is what I was thinking? Plus or minus a tolerance?
Like I said, there is no point because once you start pushing the rear axles passed a certain degree at the wheel you start running into reliability issues with axles. Travel is already limited by design, why limit it further? That’s like saying we should limit the travel in the front end to 5.5 inches so everyone is on the same playing field (even though just by design alone they already are.)

The only change that makes any sense is to open up the internals in the transmission which has been discussed more in another thread.
 

Speedingjake

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If you open up the trans, don't you think someone will find a way to get 10 maybe 12 inches of travel?
 

jon coleman

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my first foray into off road was swingaxle, who in the heck could handle 12 inches of swinging wheels, That would be interesting to watch
 

Bro_Gill

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Actually, yes, it can be done, but with the research a couple of us have done on this, WE can't afford it, but someone might be able to. As it stands right now, it is only a money issue, not an impossibility.
 

ACME

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Lots of class 9 sitting around doing nothing.
And forcing a $3+K min update for DB's and IRS without touching all the other older stuff that's been sitting drying out and rotting will get them back racing? Interesting approach...

PS I'd trust Mr Inch on the trans/travel comments. I've known him a few years and have seen what his fertile mind has dreamed up to make limited class cars faster (both IRS and swingers). With his trans/fab/class lineage and McGiver-esq approach; if he says "No", an open check book might be able in overcome it in theory, but why. And my moneys still on him as knowing him, he's already tried numerous times...

Bigger Motor, Alum Wheels, Open Trans, IRS and PS = 1600 all you need is to add 14-20"
 

Bro_Gill

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Who said bigger motor? I'd be fine with aluminum wheels any size and open up swinger internals. Power Steering? for what? Work those meat beaters out more!
 

tapeworm

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If you open up the trans, don't you think someone will find a way to get 10 maybe 12 inches of travel?
No. The only way to do that would be to develop a custom diff that uses a 930 cv at the trans with full custom axles.

Simply allowing aftermarket manufacturer gears will not allow 10-12 inches of travel in a swing axle transmission. The current design is limited by the degrees of articulation where the spade of the axle is inputted into the trans. (Or something along those lines, I’m not a trans builder but it’s been explained to me.) if you try to get too much rotation on the axles and increase down travel, you stress the axle more and it snaps at the spade. Allowing any billet or chromoly diff inside the trans isn’t going to change this fact. You’re still limited to the current travel everyone is running because of design no matter what manufacturer of parts are inside the transmission. There is just a chance to reduce the maintenance in between races with aftermarket parts as opposed to stock parts. Weddle internals will not make it possible to get 10-12 inches of travel and I don’t think anyone with enough money to develop a swingaxle that pulls those numbers reliably will ever build and campaign a 9 car.

10-12 inches of rear wheel travel will never happen in a 9 car unless it’s converted to IRS.
 

Mohr

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Tapeworm is right....and besides, it's the FRONT that could use more travel...add 2" of travel to the front, and these cars will average another 2 to 3 mph per lap...and then....something else will fail...
People need to understand that you're supposed to drive the car to IT'S limit, not yours. That's what a good driver does in ANY motorsport...If you're breaking stuff, either rethink your prep, or your driving...
 
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