Using a Heim at the top of a toyota spindle?

geoff

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Rather than using a uniball or a ball joint, why not use a heim? You could use a LARGE heim and shim the center down to use a small bolt, in order to get some turning radius out of the vehicle. How much turning is really necessary?

I was planning on tapping the spindle, setting the heim height, then welding the heim in place. I think i saw a picture of this a while ago but forgot... the upper balljoint would no longer be the travel limiter.

Here is a pic of the basic idea.



"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

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JOSH

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CHECK OUT H&M'S NEW RANGER SPINDLE, IT WILL EXPLAIN ALLOT. THEY USE A 1" UNIBALL INSTED OF A HEIM
 

Kritter

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The large heim is common for upper spindle.

Kris

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Bob_Sheaves

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Hi Geoff,

To answer your question, from a production design point of view, you will generally see 31-35 degrees or wheel steer in the knuckle assembly in each direction (depending on the ackermann setting).

Best as always,

Bob Sheaves
 

geoff

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Got any pics? I need to figure out what size bolt to run, I wil lprobably use a 3/4" heim with maybe a 1/2" or 3/8" bolt.

Any idea how much travel can be had form the lower too?

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

gary

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i think ats has used this set up before, as i have a catalog from them with pics like this...maybe you can contact them, as they've already done it...
 

BradM

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A uniball and a heim both use a spherical plain bearing. They are essentially the same part in different applications. As Greg mentioned, a heim usually has the bearing pressed in or staked in while the uniballs are typically used with a machined cup and an internal snap ring for positive capture. Uniballs typically are used in large sizes with reduced bolt diameter for increased allowable misalignment. A heim can be used the same way. You should consider something more on the order of a 1" ID spherical plain bearing (heim or uniball) and reduce the bolt diameter down to 5/8 or 3/4. If you plan to drive it hard off-road to include jumping, I would not rely on a 3/8 or 1/2 bolt.

There are many ways to accomplish the same result. Find the one that best suits your needs and abilities.
 

geoff

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but having the heim positioned as i do, there will be very little axial load. the only load that will break the heim in that position would break it where the threads meet the cup. im thinkabout stepping it up to a 7/8" heim... gotta see.



"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

geoff

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hmm ill do some math and measure stuff tonite to try and figure this out. I think it would work pretty well if i also welded a nut on the heim and beefed it up with some tig beads... just gotta see if i can weld it cool enough so it doesnt warp.

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

geoff

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other ball join options???

I know some ppl use stock car products ball joints MOTO told me about them and some other guys use other balljoints from other companies. Any reocmmendations??

note: i know a uniball works really well and is probably the way to go, but i just like trying different things, it lets me flex my brain muscle, and the whole offroad thing is completely new to me... thanks

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

BradM

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I don't have any info in front of me but it seems to me that 7/8 spherical plain bearings tend to have substantially less allowable misalignment angle than do 3/4 or 1 inch. As for your desire to be different, if it resorts to welding on the shank of a heim as an attempt to improve the strength because you chose to use it in a condition that is questionable, then the rest of your work is likely all questionable.

If your set in your mind about how you intend to do it, then why ask for anyone else's opinion.
 

geoff

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ATS pics...

Thanks for the heads up, i found these pics. i was looking at the ats site


TacTunVertUnib.jpg.JPG


TacTunRFTop.jpg.JPG


CoilOvrRed2.jpg



Bob -- are you sure that number is in the neighborhood of 30 degrees? That would be 60 total!! does not seem like such an idea... Looking at www.spidertrax.com where the heims and their respective ranges of motion are show, a 3/4" can give up to 14 degrees. Im not sure if that is with or with out the misalignment spacer, so using this rod end:

.625" 3/4-16 19 32,067 AUR-HXAM10T $73.50 which gives 19 degrees.

trying to figure out what ATS does. thanks

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka
 

Bob_Sheaves

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Re: ATS pics...

Hi geoff,

Yep- that is the number for most vehicles (remember I said "production design"). The number is measured at the KPI angle and NOT at the ground. Dodge 4x4 trucks are 39, GMC/Chevy are 38.5, current Fords are 38, Jeeps are 35, Nissans are 31, Toyotas are 33...all inside tire measurements. Due to ackermann, the outside turn angle is always something less depending on the amount of ackermann designed into the system.

Best regards,

Bob
 

farmboy

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Re: ATS pics...

this is a pic i pulled out of the skunkz section, it utilizes a large uniball up top like H&M's new ranger spindle but in a differnt design, one has the uniball welded to the arm, the other welded to the spindle. as to which one is better, who knows?

the faster you go the smoother it is
 

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farmboy

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Re: ATS pics...

here is the other pic

the faster you go the smoother it is
 

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