V-8 Spec class

[Bdub 1020]

It seems that RDC has been boring lately lol Travis. I made a comment about waiting for a spec V-8 Buggy class when someone asked when we were building a new 10 car. I never intended for it to take off the way it did. Nor to take class 10 threads off topic it just happened. My personal opinion is a buggy class some what modeled after Trophy Lite would work. Correct me if im wrong but don't they determine what engine , transmission , shocks and tires you run. Not trying to hurt or save any other class. Just thought something like this would be cool and possibly get off road companies involved like TL did. Will it take a promoter to make a class with rules or someone to build it and create the org. like TL did. Don't hate just add some positive ideas or keep quiet and race your class.

 

[Bdub 1020]

PS leaving to watch my youngest race a TL in class 10 at the night race this weekend to have some fun. Will check back in Sunday. Try and be nice guys lol

 

[NIKAL]

Not a V8 engine class, but Fusion tried to start a buggy version of the TL class before TL started. It was called Class 1 Lite if I'm remembering correctly. Then that vehicle morphed into class 3000, and that class died when class 10 saw the potential of the Ecotec and it revived class 10 by doing so.

I think if your going to start a spec V8 buggy class it would have to be the same concept as 6100, not TL where you have to buy one persons turn key vehicle and are then required to run only their approved parts and or brands.The TL concept has been tried over & over and none have stood the test of time and proven to work. I think the Chenowth Mini Mag was the first, then you had ProTruck, now TL and there might have been more I cant think of. But none have shown to be super successful over the long term. IMO its because the concept is to be able to race competitively within a budget. Well we all know those classes never stay budget minded and end up costing more then some other classes that are faster and ride better.

 

[Dirty Harry]

I would argue that Trophy Lite and Jeepspeed have both been successful. I understand the idea of a stepping stone between C10 and C1 but given the relatively low entry numbers in Class 1 though I don't really think a spec V8 buggy class makes a lot of sense.


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[tapeworm]

Spec ls motor, non sequential transmission 5 speed, 35 inch max tire size, limit fuel to 91 octane to help keep motor costs down. Don't require any one manufacturer so their is competition between them to make them fight for business. Simple with very few rules to follow.

 

[NIKAL]

Spec ls motor, non sequential transmission 5 speed, 35 inch max tire size, limit fuel to 91 octane to help keep motor costs down. Don't require any one manufacturer so their is competition between them to make them fight for business. Simple with very few rules to follow.

You will need to clarify "Transaxle" not transmission. If not someone will build a truggy and the whole class will be complaining, and we will see another 20 threads started about how the truggy ruined another class. Then we will have another 20 threads started about building a new class.

 

[ltr450rider]

The thing about a Spec V8 class buggy is that they still require a heavy duty transaxle and torque converter to make the driveline survive. A torque converter based transaxle is still between $20-30K. Just ask the Class 10 guys how hard the ecotec and 35's are on drivelines.

 

[Slippery P]

Class 1 spec could work for sure, those complaining about cost should try racing a TT competitively for a year. It will open your eyes to what burning $$$$$$$ is all about.

Class 1 with the DI chevy LT1, stock 550ish HP, with a cam swap and tuning put 580hp to the crank. Stout internals for stock and a vast difference from the current Ls3 6100 is running althought same displacement 6.2L.

Could be a really fun class if those who wanted to race class 1 would just do it and quit trying to race for the overall and focus on racing the competition in your class. An overall in class 1 just is not going to happen anymore unless the stars align. Don't get me wrong Class 1s are faster than a TT in technical parts of a race course but you cannot pound them through the rough nasty bumps. It takes a special kind of nut to drive a class 1 in the front of the pack!

Class 1 spec with DI chevy LT1, do it before 6100 runs out of LS3s and adopts this engine package.

 

[Bro_Gill]

There is a huge difference between a 'spec' class and a single source type class. A spec class can be a huge success as other forms of racing has proven- take ARCA for roundy round guys. The spec is chassis dimensions, pick-up points, width and motor. Parts sources are open. This allows racers to shop for competitive parts at competitive pricing while ensuring that any racer that can afford the parts knows the car is basically on a competitive level. Manufacturers like this concept because then know that the parts they develop for the class will have a large purchasing pool and rules allow the parts to remain viable for a long time. The only thing that off road can't offer to this is a national market that supports this type of support. I think class 10 would be about as close as you could get with this now if they regulated transmissions a little more. And as Bdub has always been pointing out, that cost of allowing any transaxle makes the price point pointless in the end. Protruck had the potential to do this except that they made too many parts single source and, after a few years, when the deals from those manufacturers were over, Costs made the class slower than the same cost Trophy Truck at that time. As with any class, once a faster, more fun car is available for the same or less money, racers will migrate away. The only other real problem I see with Bdub's idea is that it is not a class that will draw new racers in as it is too expensive and too fast to be an entry level class. Not sure if that is part of his goal, but I think it creates the same problem with newbies with big wallets simply starting in Trophy Truck.

 

[BANNED4LIFE]

there already IS a spec junebuggie class....SPORTSMAN.....dub and his pals can race there with their kmart class one cars, and since no prize money, no one will spend huge money (like class 10 is now) to dominate it, why would they? ....then you wont be depleting the real class 1 class that is already shrinking.....duh....or a better idea may be make class 1 a ls3 engine only class, would be cheaper for all involved and probably more popular....

 

[johndjmix]

I also would argue. Trophylite has and is a VERY successful class. I'm currently in the market for a TL truck and it's been a challenge finding one, as they sell fast!

--John


Dunarri LLC
wildscooterparts.com
coolermods.com

 

[43mod]

I know where a TL for sale is. PM sent . I don't know about pro Trucks but TL has been really good to work with about truck issues that are not exactly spec. If it does not change the performance they don't throw a fit.
Spec trucks /motors have allowed me to go racing all over the place instead of day dreaming about it.

 

[MARXICO]

Don’t mess with class 1 cars let them survive without any change .A Truggy class is long overdue this would be a perfect V8 Speck class to grow .There are a lot of older racecars that are no longer able to compete competitively with the state of the art cars that continue to develop. A older trophy truck, class 8,pro trucks, trophy light, prerunner or a 1400 could now be economically converted to a truggy .Make it a pump gas class to broaden the range of current equipment available limit the LS to one that produces around 600 hp for a level playing field for the Gen 1 engines. You now have a race car with a reasonable costing power plant and economical to race because you are not using race fuel, the drive train is also the most economical still allowing maximum wheel travel and related components .limit tire size to 35 and allow no truck body's for the class to have its own identity. You now have a comfortable ride with plenty of power reliable and economical drive train also affordable fuel consumption. The limited tire size would govern the guy that spends $40,000 in a pump gas V8.To keep it economical do not allow bead locks, the original TTs didn’t use them to win, they are only a luxury this would reflect on driver skill instead of a owners wealth.
This concept would allow a lot of vehicles that are no longer completive or are in a class with low entries to be completive and cost effective.
Number the class with 0 before the number i.e. (013) and refer to them as The Outlaw Truggy Class

 

[Bdub 1020]

Some cool ideas , I thought some would ruin it with negative blast but keeping a thread positive on RDC is hard to do. Like it or not bringing the cost down to race and have a huge driver talent class is appealing to many. But you have to step out of the old school box and realize things change in life. God Bless America we need it.

 

[BANNED4LIFE]

Don’t mess with class 1 cars let them survive without any change .A Truggy class is long overdue this would be a perfect V8 Speck class to grow .There are a lot of older racecars that are no longer able to compete competitively with the state of the art cars that continue to develop. A older trophy truck, class 8,pro trucks, trophy light, prerunner or a 1400 could now be economically converted to a truggy .Make it a pump gas class to broaden the range of current equipment available limit the LS to one that produces around 600 hp for a level playing field for the Gen 1 engines. You now have a race car with a reasonable costing power plant and economical to race because you are not using race fuel, the drive train is also the most economical still allowing maximum wheel travel and related components .limit tire size to 35 and allow no truck body's for the class to have its own identity. You now have a comfortable ride with plenty of power reliable and economical drive train also affordable fuel consumption. The limited tire size would govern the guy that spends $40,000 in a pump gas V8.To keep it economical do not allow bead locks, the original TTs didn’t use them to win, they are only a luxury this would reflect on driver skill instead of a owners wealth.
This concept would allow a lot of vehicles that are no longer completive or are in a class with low entries to be completive and cost effective.
Number the class with 0 before the number i.e. (013) and refer to them as The Outlaw Truggy Class

WAIT...let me guess.....YOUR vintage $hitbox fits this "NEW" class perfectly without any modifications RIGHT???? so you can finally get a trophy?? ...there are TWO sportsman classes that fit all vehicles you mention.....problem SOLVED....you guys are getting annoying...

 

[Josh 8]

I finally agree 100% with Pete. So mark this date and post. He finally said something that wasn't stupid.

 

[Jerry Zaiden]

I think the rules for this class should be simple and more on the side of OPEN.

35" or 37" max tire size rule.
Spec engine LS3 and EcoBoost V6. Same as the 6100 rules. I am sure the LT1 engine will get adopted in a few years when they stop producing the LS3.
Trans-axle only NO Truggys.

Think about how many cars are out there not racing. There are a ton of nice 1 cars for sale in the classifieds right now for $50,000 - $80,000. All would be competitive with a stock LS3.

Also to be clear I am talking about adding this new class and see where it goes from here. Leave Class 1 and 10 as they are. Let the racers/entries pan out in a few years. I am sure just like 6100/10/1000 we will see a big class.

 

[Bdub 1020]

Just for the record, I like Pete and his straight upness lol. But he is not the prophet of off road racing. My thoughts are not only would some bring out older chassis and retrofit but would not it be nice to see companies like Raceco , Racer , Jimco , Fusion etc. etc. build some new chassis. People like Folts and Fortin rebuilding 4 speed h patterns , someone like Adam Wik etc sealing and selling crate V-8s. King and Fox rebuilding and selling 3.0 bypass and 2.5 coil overs. How about take 15 classes that get 1-3 entries and lump them into sportsman. That's a positive thought

 

[johndjmix]

The spec ls3 / ecoboost and possibly add a spec th400 trans and it would keep the cost way way down

--John


Dunarri LLC
wildscooterparts.com
coolermods.com

 

[BANNED4LIFE]

here is the simple solution.....make whatever rules you want....race in sportsman in the open class UNTIL you have 20 cars competing REGULARLY and THEN you can have your class adopted into the rulebook in ANY series.....all promoters will want your group racing.....I PROMISE......now PUT UP OR SHUT UP.....